Author Topic: Losing players for nothing  (Read 4297 times)

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Losing players for nothing
« on: July 06, 2017, 05:41:05 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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I admit that's a little premature, but are we at risk to have lost a complete starting team in the NBA in just two years for essentially nothing? We let Sullinger and Turner walk last year for good reasons, but at the same time they were valuable pieces who could've been used in trades earlier on. Now Olynyk is a free agent and again we will not resign him. A player who would certainly have yielded something in a trade.

The negotations over a sign and trade for Hayward are all pretty vague, but what if Crowder is included and no real asset (2nd rounders are almost worthless) comes back? Then there is the fact that Thomas, Bradley and Smart are all expiring contracts. Thomas will ask a ton of money, which could go at the expense of Bradley and Smart who both will also be looking at their payday. In the worst case we can't afford them and so they walk as well.

End result, we let this whole team walk for nothing in return and I won't even mention Johnson, Jerebko, Zeller or Young whom all at some point could've been used in a big trade. That would be a tough pill to swallow even though a nice roster is left due to the Brooklyn picks.

PG:  Smart
SG:  Bradley
SF:  Crowder
PF:  Olynyk
C:    Sullinger
6th: Turner

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2017, 05:44:49 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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We didn't lose them for nothing. We upgraded them, first with Horford, now with Hayward.

And my goodness, in what world do we lose Jae, AB and Smart for nothing?

Lastly, Sully played as effectively as a bloated whale carcass.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2017, 05:46:19 PM »

Offline More Banners

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Looks like a good deal to me.

Is Danny had just let Antoine walk, we would've avoided the cap hell he tried to get us out of for 5 years.

Players hit free agency more often now, so cap space is good. Easier than trying to work out trades.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2017, 05:47:13 PM »

Offline mobilija

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We've improved each year in the instances that you mention so....
Nah. We're good.

I think breaking apart a team over fear of "losing" a player can cause negative impact. For example see Perk trade. Perhaps, you are overvaluing the return you think we could have gotten for players.


BTW, TP for the topic and effort

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2017, 05:47:34 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Olynyk has like four teams looking at him.  Sullinger is out of the league and Evan Turner cashed in but is not worth his contract.  Ainge is a great GM, we have a rich hoard of assets, and your complaining which seems to be your forte.   I could see if we were losing guys like James Harden but we are not.   We are losing rotational players and some of them quite frankly were not good ones.

Quote
I won't even mention Johnson, Jerebko, Zeller or Young whom all at some point could've been used in a big trade.

Big trade?   That is borderline delusional, none of these guys is big trade material.

Get some cheese to go with all the whine in this thread.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2017, 05:47:37 PM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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We didn't lose them for nothing. We upgraded them, first with Horford, now with Hayward.

And my goodness, in what world do we lose Jae, AB and Smart for nothing?

Lastly, Sully played as effectively as a bloated whale carcass.

This, plus the additional benefit from just the upgrade in that player slot is the ability to hang on to other players that better help the team. Danny is not only considering how to make this happen for this year, but how it will affect him the next couple seasons when they are trying to hang on to players like Bradley and Smart. If they are able to make that happen by making this S&T, even if it doesn't result in much extra, then it will be a win.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2017, 05:52:39 PM »

Offline JBcat

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I don't look at it like that.  We let players walk to free up cap space. Kind of like trading all those players you mentioned for Horford and Hayward.  If we traded those players for "assets" we might not have had max cap space to get either of those guys.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2017, 05:54:49 PM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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You can't keep a good roster without letting a lower tier of players walk, and you can't pay nominal role players big $$ if you're going to pay stars.

They were discussing our vets on NBA radio this morning, and the only player they thought we might be able to trade for a  #1 pick was Bradley. It's not like we're losing a player of Hayward's caliber for nothing.


Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2017, 06:02:09 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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Quote
I won't even mention Johnson, Jerebko, Zeller or Young whom all at some point could've been used in a big trade.

Big trade?   That is borderline delusional, none of these guys is big trade material.

Get some cheese to go with all the whine in this thread.

I'll just address that point, whether I agree with the points being made or not, at least on how I may put that into context. The idea behind those players mentioned is not that they would be what's valuable in the trade, but the existence of their big contracts would've allowed the Celtics to match a higher salaried player in a trade, made it possible... something that the players who have actual value wouldn't have reached by themselves.

Don't think that's the point he might've been making, but they had their uses. For example, will be tough to make those kind of trades from now on without those big contracts on hand.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2017, 06:11:32 PM »

Offline RodyTur10

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We didn't lose them for nothing. We upgraded them, first with Horford, now with Hayward.

Because we signed better players in free agency we didn't lose them for nothing? I see cap space as incredibly valuable, but you can't say that you get an asset back in terms of salary if you release a player. That's nonsense.

Quote
And my goodness, in what world do we lose Jae, AB and Smart for nothing?

I hope not this world. It's a worst case scenario, but management will have tough decisions to make for who they pay next year, which they already should be planning i.m.o.

And I've been reading posts where people seem fine with letting Crowder go to Utah with nothing in return, because we don't need him anymore anyway. An argument I object strongly. It's what he's worth on the market which counts.

Quote
Lastly, Sully played as effectively as a bloated whale carcass.

Still he showed promise and in the early months of the 2015/2016 season lots of people would've liked Sullinger to come back for a reasonable contract. He was a good rebounding starting center on a play off team. He could've fetched something.

It just bothers me that we don't make trades that help us forward, but just let al these players go like they are worthless pieces. We seem to be moving behind the times. Like every time an important decision comes up, we are not prepared and have to improvise at that moment.

@ BudweiserCeltic: TP, that's exactly how I meant it.

@ everybody: I am a complainer, but I don't want to bring a negative vibe to this community. So I might slow it down a little bit. But I'm worried about the direction the team is taking and what the costs are.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 06:23:10 PM by RodyTur10 »

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2017, 06:13:46 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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We didn't lose them for nothing. We upgraded them, first with Horford, now with Hayward.

And my goodness, in what world do we lose Jae, AB and Smart for nothing?

Lastly, Sully played as effectively as a bloated whale carcass.

Now just a minute..."bloated whale carcass."?

You're suggesting that Sully was "heavy?" Perhaps his ankles imploded because of his eating habits?

All right, I'm going to give you "bloated" that's fine, but a whale? Most whales I have known would have easily outshot Sully from three.

TP to Roy for "bloated whale carcass" and Sully in same PP.


Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2017, 06:19:24 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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I think it's useful to look at other teams' moves and not just the Celtics in isolation.  Danny sometimes gets flack on this board without even comparing to how other teams do business.

For example, some other teams (2 examples: Houston, Miami), trade away draft picks frequently and thus mortgage their futures for the sake of the present.  Ainge avoids this whenever possible.  The net result is he has the ability to draft players that often become decent  or even really good NBA pros (examples: Al Jefferson, Rajon Rondo).  At the risk of hyperbole, this is like creating something out of nothing.  If he lets any of them walk at any time, you can look at it as "nothing ventured, nothing gained".  Of course, the corollary to that "you can't win if you don't play".  Meantime, the teams that constantly trade away their draft picks never get that opportunity and, in fact, may have to hold on to players they really don't want to keep because they don't have a pipeline.

I also agree with others on here who say that if the team is letting a player walk, it's probably because they have something better planned.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2017, 06:25:27 PM »

Offline mctyson

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What was the appropriate move with Sullinger and Turner, in your mind?  Turner was a key player on a playoff team, a team and Stevens' favorite, and he was not going to get traded at the deadline for an expiring deal of any value when his deal was only ~$6M (and no one was trading a 1st rounder for him).  Sully was a decent player for a while here but ate his way off the roster and out of the league, and had no trade value.

Not sure what else they could have done but let them walk.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2017, 06:43:09 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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I admit that's a little premature

Got this much right.

Re: Losing players for nothing
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2017, 06:48:09 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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not sure how given the circumstances the situation could have worked different ,  with Crowder......he knew all along he might get traded .  But Danny had no firm committment from Hayward .   Hayward waited till the bitter end to anounce his intentions .  or you wind up like Houston did with Bosh,  let Parsons go , because you Think you are getting Bosh..then Bosh changes mind you loose Parsons and Bosh. 

i only see it as a win for Celtics, we got a good upgrade in Hayward ......which will help attract other stars .   Just for losing Crowder ...who was a freakin throw in anyway .   

This was a killer deal......Turn worthless Rondo ...for Crowder .....into Hayward. 

i don't get all the belly aching .....we got a star player starting calibre on any team , for losing a role
player .......what STAR player wants to leave to play on the same team with Jae Crowder .....you know he answer.   NONE .

« Last Edit: July 06, 2017, 06:56:09 PM by SHAQATTACK »