Author Topic: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?  (Read 19456 times)

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Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #75 on: July 05, 2017, 10:21:46 AM »

Offline Granath

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I really don't want to let Smart go. Crowder is now the most redundant of all the guys who would get shopped given Hayward is playing that SF/PF combo, Tatum needs playing time in the same role and Brown gets the SG/SF minutes. Smart adds toughness to this team and he can guard pretty much anyone under 6'8". If he ever does discover a jump shot he'd be more valuable than either Bradley or Crowder.

With that said, it may be that Smart is getting shopped because of his conflicts with Brown last year. There was some video out there of some of the practices and I'm not sure those two get along very well. Brown's a key part of the future of this team and if those two create locker room friction then Smart needs to go.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #76 on: July 05, 2017, 10:29:48 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

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Only problem with trading Smart is he can play some PG and I'm not convinced Rozier can do that. On the other hand Hayward played some "point forward" for the Jazz last season so in position-less basketball you could possibly get away with that.

It's interesting because you have to look at it from 2 points of view:
1. to be the best team we can be this year you want AB on the team
2. next year no way in hell can the C's pay IT, AB and Smart so IMO AB and Smart will both be gone next year. So why not try to get something for them now?

You would keep Crowder because his contract is cap friendly and he can play multiple roles on the team coming off the bench or starting.

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #77 on: July 05, 2017, 10:31:25 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

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I can live with either Smart or Crowder going out in a deal. Bradley seems like the most valuable piece of the three for our team this year. Most polished defender and best shooter. Smart could end up being the better player down the road, but I doubt he ever becomes a player that we truly regret trading.

Agree 100%.

- From a salary / contract perspective, Bradley is the first guy you'd move.
- From a wins / team success perspective, Bradley is the last guy you'd move.

Beyond Isaiah Thomas and Al Horford (obviously), Avery Bradley was by far our most consistently impactful player in the playoffs this year.  He consistently helped to carry the team gave us a consistent scoring threat that helped take the pressure off Thomas, he played some huge defense

It's about the best long term piece though. Bradley is someone who will not be a Celtic next season because of his contract. He'll be paid at least 20 million x 4 years (at least-more like 4 years x 24 million consdiering George Hill just got that monster deal!). We can't afford that with Gordy now.

Smart is the cheapest, Crowder has 2 years on exceptional deal.
Those 2 are more likely to stay with Smart getting something like 4x 15 million next off season and Crowder leaving as FA in 2019.
We need those cheap contracts for as long as we can keep them.

Contract wise, that makes sense.  But Danny may decide he'll keep Bradley whatever the cost - we just don't know what's in his head.

Paying $20M for Bradley?  That doesn't sound too bad for a guy who paid $8M for Zeller and $12M for Amir Johnson.
The guy on Celtics Hub did an estimate that bringing both IT & AB next year @ $30 & $20 million would lead to a luxury tax of almost $70 million.

Keeping AB isn't remotely feasible, unless they're actually considering letting IT walk.

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #78 on: July 05, 2017, 10:40:06 AM »

Offline Hank Finkel

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I don't think we will be trading Smart.  Our guards were our strength last season and the rotation worked.  It should only get better with JB improving and taking a bigger role.  Now we have improved our small forward position why take a step back and ruin our guard depth.  I don't see it.  Can we  get a big now. Pleaseeeeeeeeee.

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #79 on: July 05, 2017, 10:46:42 AM »

Offline chilidawg

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I don't think we will be trading Smart.  Our guards were our strength last season and the rotation worked.  It should only get better with JB improving and taking a bigger role.  Now we have improved our small forward position why take a step back and ruin our guard depth.  I don't see it.  Can we  get a big now. Pleaseeeeeeeeee.

You can have a big, but you have to give something of value up.  We also need to create cap space for the Hayward signing.  We have great depth at both guard and wing, so those are the obvious places to trade from.

Can't have all the toys Hank.

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #80 on: July 05, 2017, 11:10:41 AM »

Offline ssspence

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All depends on what he nets. If he's worth significantly more than Bradley (largely due to contracts), and Ainge is confident he can retain Bradley. I have no problem moving Smart.

Mike

(My name is not Mike)

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #81 on: July 05, 2017, 11:13:17 AM »

Offline kozlodoev

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The guy on Celtics Hub did an estimate that bringing both IT & AB next year @ $30 & $20 million would lead to a luxury tax of almost $70 million.

Keeping AB isn't remotely feasible, unless they're actually considering letting IT walk.
Letting IT and his balky hip walk is most certainly an option, especially if the team does well early on while he's still (likely) sidelined.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #82 on: July 05, 2017, 11:22:08 AM »

Offline celticinorlando

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I think Bradley or smart are goners

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #83 on: July 05, 2017, 11:45:52 AM »

Offline footey

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I really don't want to let Smart go. Crowder is now the most redundant of all the guys who would get shopped given Hayward is playing that SF/PF combo, Tatum needs playing time in the same role and Brown gets the SG/SF minutes. Smart adds toughness to this team and he can guard pretty much anyone under 6'8". If he ever does discover a jump shot he'd be more valuable than either Bradley or Crowder.

With that said, it may be that Smart is getting shopped because of his conflicts with Brown last year. There was some video out there of some of the practices and I'm not sure those two get along very well. Brown's a key part of the future of this team and if those two create locker room friction then Smart needs to go.

Agree with Granath, except I don't really see Smart-Brown conflict since that tussle early in the year.  But team should have a read on this. 

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #84 on: July 05, 2017, 11:48:55 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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I really don't want to let Smart go. Crowder is now the most redundant of all the guys who would get shopped given Hayward is playing that SF/PF combo, Tatum needs playing time in the same role and Brown gets the SG/SF minutes. Smart adds toughness to this team and he can guard pretty much anyone under 6'8". If he ever does discover a jump shot he'd be more valuable than either Bradley or Crowder.

With that said, it may be that Smart is getting shopped because of his conflicts with Brown last year. There was some video out there of some of the practices and I'm not sure those two get along very well. Brown's a key part of the future of this team and if those two create locker room friction then Smart needs to go.

Agree with Granath, except I don't really see Smart-Brown conflict since that tussle early in the year.  But team should have a read on this.

i hear people talking about Smart needs to go because of Brown/Tatum needs minutes off the bench, but I actually disagree

now that we have Hayward, Brown, Bradley, etc, I think Smart is better off playing PG. He provides much better passing than any of the 3

Offline mmmmm

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Do you think Utah loses Hayward if they pick Marcus instead of Dante Exum?

Yes.

Hayward tried to leave Utah once before, at the end of his rookie contract.  He accepted an offer sheet to play in Charlotte.  Utah only kept him by exercising their Restricted FA rights to match the offer sheet.

I think Hayward was going to leave Utah one way or another.
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Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #86 on: July 05, 2017, 12:47:47 PM »

Offline ThaPreacher

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I really don't want to let Smart go. Crowder is now the most redundant of all the guys who would get shopped given Hayward is playing that SF/PF combo, Tatum needs playing time in the same role and Brown gets the SG/SF minutes. Smart adds toughness to this team and he can guard pretty much anyone under 6'8". If he ever does discover a jump shot he'd be more valuable than either Bradley or Crowder.

With that said, it may be that Smart is getting shopped because of his conflicts with Brown last year. There was some video out there of some of the practices and I'm not sure those two get along very well. Brown's a key part of the future of this team and if those two create locker room friction then Smart needs to go.

Agree with Granath, except I don't really see Smart-Brown conflict since that tussle early in the year.  But team should have a read on this.

i hear people talking about Smart needs to go because of Brown/Tatum needs minutes off the bench, but I actually disagree

now that we have Hayward, Brown, Bradley, etc, I think Smart is better off playing PG. He provides much better passing than any of the 3

Right, but that just shows how poor we are. Watching Rondo dominate and out-think the entire Celtic line-up made me realize how poor we are at PG.  IT4 is really an off guard with the ball.
I'd play him off picks and unleash him at times.

Smart excels because he is tough and driven.
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Offline kozlodoev

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Do you think Utah loses Hayward if they pick Marcus instead of Dante Exum?

Yes.

Hayward tried to leave Utah once before, at the end of his rookie contract.  He accepted an offer sheet to play in Charlotte.  Utah only kept him by exercising their Restricted FA rights to match the offer sheet.

I think Hayward was going to leave Utah one way or another.
Just because he signed an offer sheet doesn't mean he tried to leave. It's not like he wasn't aware that he was Restricted.
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

Offline jbp126

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Do you think Utah loses Hayward if they pick Marcus instead of Dante Exum?

Yes.

Hayward tried to leave Utah once before, at the end of his rookie contract.  He accepted an offer sheet to play in Charlotte.  Utah only kept him by exercising their Restricted FA rights to match the offer sheet.

I think Hayward was going to leave Utah one way or another.
Just because he signed an offer sheet doesn't mean he tried to leave. It's not like he wasn't aware that he was Restricted.

It does mean that he had to go elsewhere to force Utah's hand.  I'd say signing a max offer sheet with another team means you're pretty ok with leaving your current team.

Re: UH-OH. Smart Being Shopped?
« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2017, 01:22:27 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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I really don't want to let Smart go. Crowder is now the most redundant of all the guys who would get shopped given Hayward is playing that SF/PF combo, Tatum needs playing time in the same role and Brown gets the SG/SF minutes. Smart adds toughness to this team and he can guard pretty much anyone under 6'8". If he ever does discover a jump shot he'd be more valuable than either Bradley or Crowder.

With that said, it may be that Smart is getting shopped because of his conflicts with Brown last year. There was some video out there of some of the practices and I'm not sure those two get along very well. Brown's a key part of the future of this team and if those two create locker room friction then Smart needs to go.

Agree with Granath, except I don't really see Smart-Brown conflict since that tussle early in the year.  But team should have a read on this.

i hear people talking about Smart needs to go because of Brown/Tatum needs minutes off the bench, but I actually disagree

now that we have Hayward, Brown, Bradley, etc, I think Smart is better off playing PG. He provides much better passing than any of the 3

Here is the problem for Smart:

Up to now, he is able to get minutes on the floor as

a) back up PG behind Isaiah
b) back up 2 behind Avery
c) super-small-ball 3 in our 3-guard lineups.

However, the roster going forward looks to be quite different.   We now have numerous options to play at the 2 & 3, both offensively and defensively.   In addition to Avery, we now have Hayward & Jaylen who both can play the 2, the former at an all-star level and the latter possibly trending that way.  And we currently have Hayward, Jae, Jaylen, Jayson, Nader & Semi who can all play the 3.

There should be far less reason for Brad to use 'super small' lineups that would put Smart at the 3 ever again (those lineups all _sucked_ defensively).   So those minutes probably vanish.

And you don't have to look far down the road to see Jaylen as a better option at the 2 than Marcus.   So Marcus' minutes at the 2 suddenly look fewer and fewer.

And with two forwards who are extremely capable playmakers in Horford and Hayward added, the need for a playmaker at PG is less critical.

Our roster is set up to play far more 'wing focused' than 'guard focused' going forward.  We will almost certainly see lots of 3-wing lineups and maybe even some 4-wing lineups and hopefully we will never see any more 3-guard lineups again.

So this relegates Marcus' role on this roster to primarily being that of bench PG.   And that is not likely to change barring a trade that moves one of our young stud wings.

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean Marcus should be traded right now.   Avery's and Jae's contracts would potentially return much more cap space and cap space is the primary goal of Danny's next move.   Of the three, contract reasons would favor Avery being traded first and foremost.

But it should set you up to understand that, even if Marcus is not traded right now, he is not likely to be re-signed next Summer when he reaches free agency.   He's probably worth, as others have noted, somewhere north of 10M per to some other teams.   But on a contending team carrying 3 max contracts, you cannot afford to pay that much for a bench PG who is primarily a defensive specialist.

And one more thought that _would_ tend to favor trading Marcus right now instead of waiting and say, moving him at the deadline, is that there is a real risk that his trade value is peaked.   If, as I have outlined, his minutes and role take a big hit this year, then he may not have near as much trade value in February as he does right now.   Now, if IT starts off the season on the inactive list, that may not be true because maybe he'd get enough minutes at the start of the season to keep his value propped up.   But Steven's last comments on IT were that he expected him to be ready to go to start the season.

So there is a real risk that he will appear by the trade deadline to be reduced from 30-minute key rotation player to just "bench PG / defensive specialist".
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