Author Topic: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17  (Read 6557 times)

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Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #600 on: July 03, 2017, 10:21:51 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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First game impressions:

I get people hating on D Jackson's offense... His defense however is pretty solid.  I can see him filling a Phil Pressey role where he's just out there to setup the half-court offense and play D. 

Semi physically looks like a power forward (if you haven't seen him on the court you'll get what this means when you do) he's just built a lot bigger than everyone else around him.  Some very nice things from him including one made 3 pointer from WAY back.  I hope they don't send him to Maine.

It looks like Nader spent an entire season working on all the wrong things in the D-League.  He looked like a potential 3-D NBA wing last year in summer league.  Now he's looking for his offense every time he touches the ball but doesn't have the skill to score reliably in isolation against bigger faster more determined athletes... He looks like he's going to go down swinging however... He DOES play the same speed all game and had some solid takes and timely rebounds. 

Kadeem Allen looks like an NBA player to me.  Actually... he looks like 1 player specifically.  Marcus Smart.

Tatum - Wow... patient, deliberate, fearless a lot better on D than advertised.  Also, if you haven't heard, he took over the game in the 4th quarter and capped it off by hitting a shot to take the lead over 2 players with 5 seconds left.  If he were white I bet he'd have drawn a lot more comparisons to a young Dirk before the draft...

Fultz was absolutely electric.  I can't take anything away from him except his atrocious free throw shooting.

Jaylen Brown... Great progress, if his offense doesn't click this year in the NBA it will next year I think.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dominate Summer league.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him plagued by silly young player mistakes (he made a couple over-ambitious drives that turned into turnovers already).

Zizic... Ran out of steam after the first half (about ten minutes of playing) and staggered around the court for the second half.  I think people imagining the next Jokic or Nurkic are going to be sorely disappointed.  Those hoping for a Zaza Pachulia with less motor might be getting exactly what they're looking for.

Zizic was a man among boys in the 1st 10 minutes, as you said.  However, he clearly is slow, deliberate and lacks conditioning.  That said, he should be able to make the roster, but certainly won't be a starter on this team as some have projected.  Ainge needs to go get a starting center and I sincerely hope he makes a move now.

Call me crazy, but I'm still pretty OK about us going after Nerlens Noel - especially if Hayward goes to Utah / Miami. 

By missing out on George and Butler we've been kind of forced to lean more away from the "win now" mentality and more in the direction of the "keep developing/building" mentality. We will still be a very good team and should win a lot of games, but we have no hope of beating Golden State and little hope of beating Cleveland (even if we do add Hayward).

As such, I'm ok with us continuing on as a top 2-4 team in the East, while focusing more of our attention on building our core so we can compete for a title 2-3 years from now.

Noel isn't a guy who likely puts us over the edge right now, but as a 23 year old guy with truly elite physicals (7'0" height, 7'4" wingspan, 9'2" standing reach, extremely athletic) who can already rebound and defend at a very high level, I would be ok with overpaying a little on the hope he can flourish in Boston.

I feel like a youth group of Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Noel would fit together perfectly with a very nice balance between scoring, rebounding defense and ball handling. 

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #601 on: July 03, 2017, 10:37:47 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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THAT'S why we drafted him! Someone who can create their own shot and get a bucket when we need it....19 yrs old!

This is why I don't get all the hate on Tatum.

People say that defense wins games, but that's not entirely true.  Defense keeps you in games - clutch scorers win games.

* Ray Allen's dagger three lifting Miami over San Antonio for the title
* Durant's pull up jumper eliminating Lebron and the Cavs
* Countless Lakers and Celtics games won at the hands of Paul Pierce / Kobe Bryant daggers

The general consensus out there is that ISO ball is bad because basketball is a team game, yadda yadda yadda.  But for a pure team offense to work, you have to rely on every day guys to hit huge clutch shots - and not a lot of guys have that in them.

More often then not, it's great ISO scorers who end up winning you games - especially in the playoffs.

For similar reasons, I hate the fact that people are so obsessed with three point shots and are so against the midrange game. 

Everybody raves about how midrange jumpers are the worst shot in the game, etc.  But how many games have the Bulls, Celtics, Mavs, Lakers, Cavs and Heat won off midrange jumpers from guy like Paul Pierce, Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitzski, Lebron James and Dwyane Wade? 

When you're in a tied game or 1 point game and everything's on the line, then two points makes the difference between winning or going home.  And in that scenario I'd put my money on a midrange jumper over a three any day of the week.

Well said and so very true.

Thanks for saying so.

It doesn't get said nearly enough around here these days.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #602 on: July 03, 2017, 10:46:15 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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First game impressions:

I get people hating on D Jackson's offense... His defense however is pretty solid.  I can see him filling a Phil Pressey role where he's just out there to setup the half-court offense and play D. 

Semi physically looks like a power forward (if you haven't seen him on the court you'll get what this means when you do) he's just built a lot bigger than everyone else around him.  Some very nice things from him including one made 3 pointer from WAY back.  I hope they don't send him to Maine.

It looks like Nader spent an entire season working on all the wrong things in the D-League.  He looked like a potential 3-D NBA wing last year in summer league.  Now he's looking for his offense every time he touches the ball but doesn't have the skill to score reliably in isolation against bigger faster more determined athletes... He looks like he's going to go down swinging however... He DOES play the same speed all game and had some solid takes and timely rebounds. 

Kadeem Allen looks like an NBA player to me.  Actually... he looks like 1 player specifically.  Marcus Smart.

Tatum - Wow... patient, deliberate, fearless a lot better on D than advertised.  Also, if you haven't heard, he took over the game in the 4th quarter and capped it off by hitting a shot to take the lead over 2 players with 5 seconds left.  If he were white I bet he'd have drawn a lot more comparisons to a young Dirk before the draft...

Fultz was absolutely electric.  I can't take anything away from him except his atrocious free throw shooting.

Jaylen Brown... Great progress, if his offense doesn't click this year in the NBA it will next year I think.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dominate Summer league.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him plagued by silly young player mistakes (he made a couple over-ambitious drives that turned into turnovers already).

Zizic... Ran out of steam after the first half (about ten minutes of playing) and staggered around the court for the second half.  I think people imagining the next Jokic or Nurkic are going to be sorely disappointed.  Those hoping for a Zaza Pachulia with less motor might be getting exactly what they're looking for.

Zizic was a man among boys in the 1st 10 minutes, as you said.  However, he clearly is slow, deliberate and lacks conditioning.  That said, he should be able to make the roster, but certainly won't be a starter on this team as some have projected.  Ainge needs to go get a starting center and I sincerely hope he makes a move now.

Call me crazy, but I'm still pretty OK about us going after Nerlens Noel - especially if Hayward goes to Utah / Miami. 

By missing out on George and Butler we've been kind of forced to lean more away from the "win now" mentality and more in the direction of the "keep developing/building" mentality. We will still be a very good team and should win a lot of games, but we have no hope of beating Golden State and little hope of beating Cleveland (even if we do add Hayward).

As such, I'm ok with us continuing on as a top 2-4 team in the East, while focusing more of our attention on building our core so we can compete for a title 2-3 years from now.

Noel isn't a guy who likely puts us over the edge right now, but as a 23 year old guy with truly elite physicals (7'0" height, 7'4" wingspan, 9'2" standing reach, extremely athletic) who can already rebound and defend at a very high level, I would be ok with overpaying a little on the hope he can flourish in Boston.

I feel like a youth group of Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Noel would fit together perfectly with a very nice balance between scoring, rebounding defense and ball handling.
I've been a Noel fan for a while, but it seems Ainge is not.  He could have gotten him earlier given how little Dallas gave up to get him.  Ainge/Stevens want a big man who can shoot from the outside and hit free throws.  They want no weak positions on the offensive end.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #603 on: July 03, 2017, 10:52:04 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Tatum is a rich man's Crowder, Fultz looked like a 6'5" IT.

Yes, Tatum's lefty finish and dirk fade reminded me of Jae, too.

Lol, TP ;D.

Jackson...man..he is not very good. I cannot see him making this roster with the guards ahead of him.

I watched him play a lot in Maine and I can confirm that he sucks. He just doesn't stand out and isn't great at any one thing, even at the D-league level.

Nader has potential though, he's long, fairly athletic, and very well-rounded.

Well, I guess we now know why he slipped in the draft :-\ *facepalm*. It's weird, too, imo, because he has the speed, quickness, and athleticism but it's like he doesn't have the handle to be able to make the most of those physical gifts/tools.  Honestly, the dude reminds me of David Rivers.  Sigh, I guess that I'm Dunn ;) as an armchair scout/gm thingy, lol ;D

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #604 on: July 03, 2017, 10:59:30 PM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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First game impressions:

I get people hating on D Jackson's offense... His defense however is pretty solid.  I can see him filling a Phil Pressey role where he's just out there to setup the half-court offense and play D. 

Semi physically looks like a power forward (if you haven't seen him on the court you'll get what this means when you do) he's just built a lot bigger than everyone else around him.  Some very nice things from him including one made 3 pointer from WAY back.  I hope they don't send him to Maine.

It looks like Nader spent an entire season working on all the wrong things in the D-League.  He looked like a potential 3-D NBA wing last year in summer league.  Now he's looking for his offense every time he touches the ball but doesn't have the skill to score reliably in isolation against bigger faster more determined athletes... He looks like he's going to go down swinging however... He DOES play the same speed all game and had some solid takes and timely rebounds. 

Kadeem Allen looks like an NBA player to me.  Actually... he looks like 1 player specifically.  Marcus Smart.

Tatum - Wow... patient, deliberate, fearless a lot better on D than advertised.  Also, if you haven't heard, he took over the game in the 4th quarter and capped it off by hitting a shot to take the lead over 2 players with 5 seconds left.  If he were white I bet he'd have drawn a lot more comparisons to a young Dirk before the draft...

Fultz was absolutely electric.  I can't take anything away from him except his atrocious free throw shooting.

Jaylen Brown... Great progress, if his offense doesn't click this year in the NBA it will next year I think.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dominate Summer league.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him plagued by silly young player mistakes (he made a couple over-ambitious drives that turned into turnovers already).

Zizic... Ran out of steam after the first half (about ten minutes of playing) and staggered around the court for the second half.  I think people imagining the next Jokic or Nurkic are going to be sorely disappointed.  Those hoping for a Zaza Pachulia with less motor might be getting exactly what they're looking for.

Zizic was a man among boys in the 1st 10 minutes, as you said.  However, he clearly is slow, deliberate and lacks conditioning.  That said, he should be able to make the roster, but certainly won't be a starter on this team as some have projected.  Ainge needs to go get a starting center and I sincerely hope he makes a move now.

Call me crazy, but I'm still pretty OK about us going after Nerlens Noel - especially if Hayward goes to Utah / Miami. 

By missing out on George and Butler we've been kind of forced to lean more away from the "win now" mentality and more in the direction of the "keep developing/building" mentality. We will still be a very good team and should win a lot of games, but we have no hope of beating Golden State and little hope of beating Cleveland (even if we do add Hayward).

As such, I'm ok with us continuing on as a top 2-4 team in the East, while focusing more of our attention on building our core so we can compete for a title 2-3 years from now.

Noel isn't a guy who likely puts us over the edge right now, but as a 23 year old guy with truly elite physicals (7'0" height, 7'4" wingspan, 9'2" standing reach, extremely athletic) who can already rebound and defend at a very high level, I would be ok with overpaying a little on the hope he can flourish in Boston.

I feel like a youth group of Rozier, Smart, Brown, Tatum, Noel would fit together perfectly with a very nice balance between scoring, rebounding defense and ball handling.
I've been a Noel fan for a while, but it seems Ainge is not.  He could have gotten him earlier given how little Dallas gave up to get him.  Ainge/Stevens want a big man who can shoot from the outside and hit free throws.  They want no weak positions on the offensive end.

Yeah, I've noticed that and to be honest it's kind of frustrating and borderline infuriating to me.

Team's need balance to be able to win. 

Sure Golden State is a great shooting team - but they wouldn't be so dominant if not for the fact that they also defend at an elite level and rebound the ball well. Draymond Green isn't valuable because he can step out and hit threes - he's valuable because he can do that while also being elite defensively AND a very strong rebounder.  Neither of their centers (Zaza or McGee) could hit a three to save their lives. But those two guys are long and physically imposing (either by atheliticsm or strength) 7 footers who are outstanding interior defenders and capable rebounders.       

Likewise Tristan Thompson couldn't make a three to save his life - but his rebounding and physicality inside give Cleveland the ability to play bigger then they are.

Boston's obsession with soft, undersized, finesse-style stretch bigs infuriates me. Sometimes you just need an old school big man who can rebound and intimidate would-be rim attackers.

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #605 on: July 03, 2017, 11:01:45 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Fultz played 11 less minutes than Tatum yet still had 4 more turnovers. I knew he had that turnover problem and it hasn't gone away it seems

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #606 on: July 03, 2017, 11:06:08 PM »

Offline JHTruth

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First game impressions:

I get people hating on D Jackson's offense... His defense however is pretty solid.  I can see him filling a Phil Pressey role where he's just out there to setup the half-court offense and play D. 

Semi physically looks like a power forward (if you haven't seen him on the court you'll get what this means when you do) he's just built a lot bigger than everyone else around him.  Some very nice things from him including one made 3 pointer from WAY back.  I hope they don't send him to Maine.

It looks like Nader spent an entire season working on all the wrong things in the D-League.  He looked like a potential 3-D NBA wing last year in summer league.  Now he's looking for his offense every time he touches the ball but doesn't have the skill to score reliably in isolation against bigger faster more determined athletes... He looks like he's going to go down swinging however... He DOES play the same speed all game and had some solid takes and timely rebounds. 

Kadeem Allen looks like an NBA player to me.  Actually... he looks like 1 player specifically.  Marcus Smart.

Tatum - Wow... patient, deliberate, fearless a lot better on D than advertised.  Also, if you haven't heard, he took over the game in the 4th quarter and capped it off by hitting a shot to take the lead over 2 players with 5 seconds left.  If he were white I bet he'd have drawn a lot more comparisons to a young Dirk before the draft...

Fultz was absolutely electric.  I can't take anything away from him except his atrocious free throw shooting.

Jaylen Brown... Great progress, if his offense doesn't click this year in the NBA it will next year I think.  I wouldn't be surprised to see him dominate Summer league.  I also wouldn't be surprised to see him plagued by silly young player mistakes (he made a couple over-ambitious drives that turned into turnovers already).

Zizic... Ran out of steam after the first half (about ten minutes of playing) and staggered around the court for the second half.  I think people imagining the next Jokic or Nurkic are going to be sorely disappointed.  Those hoping for a Zaza Pachulia with less motor might be getting exactly what they're looking for.
Nice write up.  Couple comments -
Jackson and Nader should have been better.  Both have had a full year in D-league so their performances, while ok, was disappointing given where they are at.  I thought Nader especially should have been MUCH better.  He has length, can go with his left hand and is a decent shooter, but he also still makes mistakes that will be unacceptable at the NBA level, like turnovers.

Zizic was a man among boys in the 1st 10 minutes, as you said.  However, he clearly is slow, deliberate and lacks conditioning.  That said, he should be able to make the roster, but certainly won't be a starter on this team as some have projected.  Ainge needs to go get a starting center and I sincerely hope he makes a move now.

Like Vox_Populi said, we didn't see enough of Semi to form an opinion, but he has range.

Brown - Did what he needed to do, which was simply to be the best player on the floor.

Tatum - Seems a bit 'tight' at times, maybe 1st game jitters, but clearly settled down.  Has some decent defensive plays.  I am so glad he played better than Fultz in the 4th quarter.  That will do wonder for his confidence.

Fultz - A truly dynamic scorer with a great feel for the game.  Not bad on defense either.  Poor FT shooting, as advertised.  Questionable shot selection at times, seemed to be trying too hard.  I predict he will be ROY, but it's not clear what his long-term upside his.  Let's say, much better than Jamal Crawford.

Regarding Zizic, he averaged like 10 mins a night in Euroleague. So it's not surprising that was his limit tonight. Summer League games are also a little ragged which contributes to his slowness no doubt. A 20 year old kid can definitely play himself into NBA shape. A la Perk..

Re: Celtics (0-0) vs Sixers (0-0) Utah SL Game 1 7/3/17
« Reply #607 on: July 04, 2017, 12:19:47 AM »

Offline Celtics18

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I am basing the following observation not just on this one summer league game, but I can definitely envision Markelle Fultz having some struggles with the speed and athleticism of the NBA game early in his career.

He has been heavily lauded for his "controlled" pace up until now.  He may find that pace gets him in much more trouble against NBA athletes than against PAC 12 ones.
DKC Seventy-Sixers:

PG: G. Hill/D. Schroder
SG: C. Lee/B. Hield/T. Luwawu
SF:  Giannis/J. Lamb/M. Kuzminskas
PF:  E. Ilyasova/J. Jerebko/R. Christmas
C:    N. Vucevic/K. Olynyk/E. Davis/C. Jefferson