Author Topic: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick  (Read 2059 times)

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The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« on: June 29, 2017, 02:55:33 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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11 July 2012 - Steve Nash goes to LA, LA gives Phoenix its 2015, first round protected

(Nash struggled with Dwight, LA sucked hard, so Phoenix wins this one)

19 January 2015 - Philly trade away Michael Carter-Williams to Milwaukee, who also get Tyler Ennis and Miles Plumlee from Phoenix. Phoenix get Brandon Knight and Kendall Marshall. Philly get the LA pick from Phoenix.

(Phoenix and Milwaukee both lost this trade, Philly got the pick which would eventually help them get at Markelle Fultz)

9 July 2015, [Sacramento make one of the worst trades of all time] - Sacramento trades the following to Philadelphia:

Carl Landry
Nik Stauskas
Jason Thompson
Future first-round pick
Rights to swap first-round picks in 2016 and 2017

While Sacto received:

Rights to Artūras Gudaitis
Rights to Luka Mitrović

Haven't heard of those guys? That's because neither have stepped foot in the United States. I have no idea why Sacto gave up a first rounder and those dangerous swap rights (which maybe was exercized in this draft - someone check this)  just to dump two fairly innocuous contracts (Thompson had one half more year on his 6million deal, Landry had 1.5 more years). No need to comment on who "won" this trade. The future first above was UNPROTECTED. HOLY MOLY THAT IS AWFUL.

We know what happened with the final trade..

Good times...



This is where the rubber hits the road

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2017, 03:49:07 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.
Yo pretty boy. I looked up basketball player in the dictionary and it said 'Not you!'

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2017, 06:09:53 AM »

Offline makaveli

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.
that's just Vlade trying to sign as many serbians as possible, just like he is bringing the young fella Bogdan Bogdanovic, and giving him a 13 mil contract before ever playing a single game. A bad man would say that probably 1/3 of that money will go back to Divac :D
what doesn't kill you makes you stronger

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2017, 06:44:49 AM »

Offline trickybilly

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This is where the rubber hits the road

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2017, 08:10:53 AM »

Offline Moranis

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #5 on: June 29, 2017, 08:47:14 AM »

Offline MBunge

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/

How can anyone make any evaluation about "The Process" when all it has produced is one guy so brittle he's played less than 40 games in three years, two guys who've never played a minute of NBA basketball, one wasted lotto pick (considering what they got for Noel), another lotto pick that looks like it was wasted, and a 22-year-old rookie who put up meh numbers on one of the worst teams in the league?

What are the odds that Embiid, Simmons, Fultz and Saric wind up better than Durant, Westbrook, Harden and Ibaka?  How many titles did the Thunder win?

Mike

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #6 on: June 29, 2017, 08:51:48 AM »

Offline slamtheking

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.
actually I think just as much of a true measure (if not moreso) is Philly's ability to hold on to those assets.  They've already had to move on from Noel.  Okafor seems a bust already.  as Embiid, Simmons, Saric and eventually Fultz reach the end of their rookie deals, do they take their extensions or just move forward with playing out their QO to move on to greener (i.e. winning) pastures?   

Does turning the franchise into a dumpster fire create such a negative lockerroom and playing atmosphere that their young 'prizes' move on to somewhere better as soon as they can?  I think Noel's experience in landing a new deal will play a part in their attitudes towards staying in Philly should he strike financial and personal gold with his next deal.

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #7 on: June 29, 2017, 01:51:29 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

It is a bit humorous to me. The TWolves have a star center prospect that was in the conversation for the all-star game last year that has zero serious injury concerns at this time. They just got a top 20 player in the NBA in his prime in Butler. They have Wiggins, who was hyped as a perennial all-star, but has only proven to be an elite scorer so far in his NBA career.
They have a solid big in Dieng that averaged 10 and 8 last year on 50% shooting and started to flash a 3 point shot on very low volume. They have a league average veteran point guard that is a very good passer and defender. They have 85 million in committed salary for next season and 11 million of that is to an expiring Pecovic. Yet everyone is losing their mind for the 76ers team that has players with serious injury issues and two other completely unproven players and we never talk about the Wolves..

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #8 on: June 29, 2017, 02:25:18 PM »

Offline Moranis

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

It is a bit humorous to me. The TWolves have a star center prospect that was in the conversation for the all-star game last year that has zero serious injury concerns at this time. They just got a top 20 player in the NBA in his prime in Butler. They have Wiggins, who was hyped as a perennial all-star, but has only proven to be an elite scorer so far in his NBA career.
They have a solid big in Dieng that averaged 10 and 8 last year on 50% shooting and started to flash a 3 point shot on very low volume. They have a league average veteran point guard that is a very good passer and defender. They have 85 million in committed salary for next season and 11 million of that is to an expiring Pecovic. Yet everyone is losing their mind for the 76ers team that has players with serious injury issues and two other completely unproven players and we never talk about the Wolves..
The Wolves had a very bright future before they traded for Butler, who should help balance out the roster a bit.  I still don't like the Towns and Dieng fit, but swapping Lavine for Butler should immensely help the backcourt balance.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves ended up 4th in the West next year (obviously pending free agency).  Similarly if the Sixers end up with someone like Redick to help balance the backcourt, I could see them possibly being a top 6 team in the East (obviously again pending free agency).  I mean it isn't unrealistic to see a 15 game win jump adding Simmons, Fultz, Embiid, and Redick. 
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #9 on: June 29, 2017, 02:56:35 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

It is a bit humorous to me. The TWolves have a star center prospect that was in the conversation for the all-star game last year that has zero serious injury concerns at this time. They just got a top 20 player in the NBA in his prime in Butler. They have Wiggins, who was hyped as a perennial all-star, but has only proven to be an elite scorer so far in his NBA career.
They have a solid big in Dieng that averaged 10 and 8 last year on 50% shooting and started to flash a 3 point shot on very low volume. They have a league average veteran point guard that is a very good passer and defender. They have 85 million in committed salary for next season and 11 million of that is to an expiring Pecovic. Yet everyone is losing their mind for the 76ers team that has players with serious injury issues and two other completely unproven players and we never talk about the Wolves..
The Wolves had a very bright future before they traded for Butler, who should help balance out the roster a bit.  I still don't like the Towns and Dieng fit, but swapping Lavine for Butler should immensely help the backcourt balance.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves ended up 4th in the West next year (obviously pending free agency).  Similarly if the Sixers end up with someone like Redick to help balance the backcourt, I could see them possibly being a top 6 team in the East (obviously again pending free agency).  I mean it isn't unrealistic to see a 15 game win jump adding Simmons, Fultz, Embiid, and Redick.

But you are projecting the Wolves could be 4th in the west (a tougher conference) and you are saying maybe the 76ers could end up 6th if they maybe convince a sought after 33 year old free agent that has never won a ring in his career to join them for a potential first round exit.

 So wouldn't that imply the Wolves are at a lot more exciting position?

It is also interesting that I have seen you argue in other threads that rookies don't really have an impact on wins unless it is a shaq or lebron type talent yet you are saying the 76ers get a 15 jump from having simmons and fultz. They are not really "adding" embiid considering 60% of their wins last year came with him playing and he is hardly expected to play 82 games this year.

Did you come up with the title for the show "it's always sunny in Philadelphia"? It seems to be your disposition for assessing their team. In the last two weeks you have argued you could see them getting Iggy, Lowry and now Reddick.

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2017, 03:17:38 PM »

Offline Moranis

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

It is a bit humorous to me. The TWolves have a star center prospect that was in the conversation for the all-star game last year that has zero serious injury concerns at this time. They just got a top 20 player in the NBA in his prime in Butler. They have Wiggins, who was hyped as a perennial all-star, but has only proven to be an elite scorer so far in his NBA career.
They have a solid big in Dieng that averaged 10 and 8 last year on 50% shooting and started to flash a 3 point shot on very low volume. They have a league average veteran point guard that is a very good passer and defender. They have 85 million in committed salary for next season and 11 million of that is to an expiring Pecovic. Yet everyone is losing their mind for the 76ers team that has players with serious injury issues and two other completely unproven players and we never talk about the Wolves..
The Wolves had a very bright future before they traded for Butler, who should help balance out the roster a bit.  I still don't like the Towns and Dieng fit, but swapping Lavine for Butler should immensely help the backcourt balance.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves ended up 4th in the West next year (obviously pending free agency).  Similarly if the Sixers end up with someone like Redick to help balance the backcourt, I could see them possibly being a top 6 team in the East (obviously again pending free agency).  I mean it isn't unrealistic to see a 15 game win jump adding Simmons, Fultz, Embiid, and Redick.

But you are projecting the Wolves could be 4th in the west (a tougher conference) and you are saying maybe the 76ers could end up 6th if they maybe convince a sought after 33 year old free agent that has never won a ring in his career to join them for a potential first round exit.

 So wouldn't that imply the Wolves are at a lot more exciting position?

It is also interesting that I have seen you argue in other threads that rookies don't really have an impact on wins unless it is a shaq or lebron type talent yet you are saying the 76ers get a 15 jump from having simmons and fultz. They are not really "adding" embiid considering 60% of their wins last year came with him playing and he is hardly expected to play 82 games this year.

Did you come up with the title for the show "it's always sunny in Philadelphia"? It seems to be your disposition for assessing their team. In the last two weeks you have argued you could see them getting Iggy, Lowry and now Reddick.
The Wolves are further along because they didn't have injuries and they added Butler.  I'm not really sure the West is better than the East except at the top.  The West has 3 teams that might end up as the 3 best teams in basketball, but not much else in the middle especially with Paul leaving LA  and the uncertainty in Utah.  (obviously if Hayward and Hill return they should be the 4th seed again pretty easily).  OKC, MEM, POR, DEN, NO, DAL those aren't great teams by any stretch of the imagination.  Obviously CLE and BOS should both be very good again, MIL is coming on, WAS and TOR should both be pretty good (if their free agents return).  After that MIA, CHO, DET are all in the same mix as those western teams.  ATL could be depending on Millsap.  The Knicks still have Anthony and Porzingis.  Chicago still has Wade and Rondo. 

Embiid played 31 games, the Sixers won 13 of them (of course they were 8-2 in his last 10 games).  His last game was January 27th (he played in 31 of the 45 games).  Even assuming he still misses about a third of the games, if he just plays till the end of the year that is 57 games or so.  At the same win percentage that is 24 wins and 33 losses.  They won 15 of the 51 games he sat.  Even assuming the same percentage that is another 7 wins, which puts them at 31 wins (or 3 wins better) and that doesn't account for Simmons, Fultz, or Redick (in this example).  Nor does it account for expected growth from Embiid or Saric who were rookies last year (you generally see the biggest jump from year 1 to year 2 on players that get respectable playing time). 

I expect Philly to be a 40-45 win team and they might be that even without someone like Redick (Bayless only played in 3 games and he is one of the best shooters in the league). 

I'd put Minnesota a bit better and in the 45-50 win range, which if the Jazz implode, might just be enough for 4th in the West next season.
Ohio State 2014/15 National Champions.

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2017, 03:39:25 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

It is a bit humorous to me. The TWolves have a star center prospect that was in the conversation for the all-star game last year that has zero serious injury concerns at this time. They just got a top 20 player in the NBA in his prime in Butler. They have Wiggins, who was hyped as a perennial all-star, but has only proven to be an elite scorer so far in his NBA career.
They have a solid big in Dieng that averaged 10 and 8 last year on 50% shooting and started to flash a 3 point shot on very low volume. They have a league average veteran point guard that is a very good passer and defender. They have 85 million in committed salary for next season and 11 million of that is to an expiring Pecovic. Yet everyone is losing their mind for the 76ers team that has players with serious injury issues and two other completely unproven players and we never talk about the Wolves..
The Wolves had a very bright future before they traded for Butler, who should help balance out the roster a bit.  I still don't like the Towns and Dieng fit, but swapping Lavine for Butler should immensely help the backcourt balance.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves ended up 4th in the West next year (obviously pending free agency).  Similarly if the Sixers end up with someone like Redick to help balance the backcourt, I could see them possibly being a top 6 team in the East (obviously again pending free agency).  I mean it isn't unrealistic to see a 15 game win jump adding Simmons, Fultz, Embiid, and Redick.

But you are projecting the Wolves could be 4th in the west (a tougher conference) and you are saying maybe the 76ers could end up 6th if they maybe convince a sought after 33 year old free agent that has never won a ring in his career to join them for a potential first round exit.

 So wouldn't that imply the Wolves are at a lot more exciting position?

It is also interesting that I have seen you argue in other threads that rookies don't really have an impact on wins unless it is a shaq or lebron type talent yet you are saying the 76ers get a 15 jump from having simmons and fultz. They are not really "adding" embiid considering 60% of their wins last year came with him playing and he is hardly expected to play 82 games this year.

Did you come up with the title for the show "it's always sunny in Philadelphia"? It seems to be your disposition for assessing their team. In the last two weeks you have argued you could see them getting Iggy, Lowry and now Reddick.
The Wolves are further along because they didn't have injuries and they added Butler.  I'm not really sure the West is better than the East except at the top.  The West has 3 teams that might end up as the 3 best teams in basketball, but not much else in the middle especially with Paul leaving LA  and the uncertainty in Utah.  (obviously if Hayward and Hill return they should be the 4th seed again pretty easily).  OKC, MEM, POR, DEN, NO, DAL those aren't great teams by any stretch of the imagination.  Obviously CLE and BOS should both be very good again, MIL is coming on, WAS and TOR should both be pretty good (if their free agents return).  After that MIA, CHO, DET are all in the same mix as those western teams.  ATL could be depending on Millsap.  The Knicks still have Anthony and Porzingis.  Chicago still has Wade and Rondo. 

Embiid played 31 games, the Sixers won 13 of them (of course they were 8-2 in his last 10 games).  His last game was January 27th (he played in 31 of the 45 games).  Even assuming he still misses about a third of the games, if he just plays till the end of the year that is 57 games or so.  At the same win percentage that is 24 wins and 33 losses.  They won 15 of the 51 games he sat.  Even assuming the same percentage that is another 7 wins, which puts them at 31 wins (or 3 wins better) and that doesn't account for Simmons, Fultz, or Redick (in this example).  Nor does it account for expected growth from Embiid or Saric who were rookies last year (you generally see the biggest jump from year 1 to year 2 on players that get respectable playing time). 

I expect Philly to be a 40-45 win team and they might be that even without someone like Redick (Bayless only played in 3 games and he is one of the best shooters in the league). 

I'd put Minnesota a bit better and in the 45-50 win range, which if the Jazz implode, might just be enough for 4th in the West next season.

In this week's edition of "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" starring Moranis. Jerry Bayless and his 36% career 3 point shooting is one of the "best shooters in the league." 36% would have been tied for 81st in the league with Butler and Karl Anthony Town, Butler has been called a poor shooter by others on this forum. Bayless had a great shooting season two years ago hitting 43% in an injury shortened campaign. However, his two full seasons prior to that he shot 30% and 35%. He would have ranked 141st int he league in his last full season. Yet, based on a hot shooting season in 2015-2016 in 50 games he is now one of the best shooters in the league. This concludes today's episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.


Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2017, 05:53:15 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.
Rondo Koufas and Bellinelli actually were not awful signings in the grand scheme of things. Rondo was on a one year 10 million dollar contract. It seems like he could get more than that this offseason. Koufas was given a 4 year contract for 33 million. Compared to the contracts given to backup centers the last few years including Mosgov, Ian Mahimi, Bobgonavich and Al Jefferson this really wasn't an awful deal. Bellinelli contract of 6 million a year doesn't seem awful either.

I think the problem was that the team was less than the sum of its' parts. Is that on cousins? Gay? The coaching? On paper that team should have been the 8th seed.

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2017, 07:45:57 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

It is a bit humorous to me. The TWolves have a star center prospect that was in the conversation for the all-star game last year that has zero serious injury concerns at this time. They just got a top 20 player in the NBA in his prime in Butler. They have Wiggins, who was hyped as a perennial all-star, but has only proven to be an elite scorer so far in his NBA career.
They have a solid big in Dieng that averaged 10 and 8 last year on 50% shooting and started to flash a 3 point shot on very low volume. They have a league average veteran point guard that is a very good passer and defender. They have 85 million in committed salary for next season and 11 million of that is to an expiring Pecovic. Yet everyone is losing their mind for the 76ers team that has players with serious injury issues and two other completely unproven players and we never talk about the Wolves..
The Wolves had a very bright future before they traded for Butler, who should help balance out the roster a bit.  I still don't like the Towns and Dieng fit, but swapping Lavine for Butler should immensely help the backcourt balance.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves ended up 4th in the West next year (obviously pending free agency).  Similarly if the Sixers end up with someone like Redick to help balance the backcourt, I could see them possibly being a top 6 team in the East (obviously again pending free agency).  I mean it isn't unrealistic to see a 15 game win jump adding Simmons, Fultz, Embiid, and Redick.

But you are projecting the Wolves could be 4th in the west (a tougher conference) and you are saying maybe the 76ers could end up 6th if they maybe convince a sought after 33 year old free agent that has never won a ring in his career to join them for a potential first round exit.

 So wouldn't that imply the Wolves are at a lot more exciting position?

It is also interesting that I have seen you argue in other threads that rookies don't really have an impact on wins unless it is a shaq or lebron type talent yet you are saying the 76ers get a 15 jump from having simmons and fultz. They are not really "adding" embiid considering 60% of their wins last year came with him playing and he is hardly expected to play 82 games this year.

Did you come up with the title for the show "it's always sunny in Philadelphia"? It seems to be your disposition for assessing their team. In the last two weeks you have argued you could see them getting Iggy, Lowry and now Reddick.
The Wolves are further along because they didn't have injuries and they added Butler.  I'm not really sure the West is better than the East except at the top.  The West has 3 teams that might end up as the 3 best teams in basketball, but not much else in the middle especially with Paul leaving LA  and the uncertainty in Utah.  (obviously if Hayward and Hill return they should be the 4th seed again pretty easily).  OKC, MEM, POR, DEN, NO, DAL those aren't great teams by any stretch of the imagination.  Obviously CLE and BOS should both be very good again, MIL is coming on, WAS and TOR should both be pretty good (if their free agents return).  After that MIA, CHO, DET are all in the same mix as those western teams.  ATL could be depending on Millsap.  The Knicks still have Anthony and Porzingis.  Chicago still has Wade and Rondo. 

Embiid played 31 games, the Sixers won 13 of them (of course they were 8-2 in his last 10 games).  His last game was January 27th (he played in 31 of the 45 games).  Even assuming he still misses about a third of the games, if he just plays till the end of the year that is 57 games or so.  At the same win percentage that is 24 wins and 33 losses.  They won 15 of the 51 games he sat.  Even assuming the same percentage that is another 7 wins, which puts them at 31 wins (or 3 wins better) and that doesn't account for Simmons, Fultz, or Redick (in this example).  Nor does it account for expected growth from Embiid or Saric who were rookies last year (you generally see the biggest jump from year 1 to year 2 on players that get respectable playing time). 

I expect Philly to be a 40-45 win team and they might be that even without someone like Redick (Bayless only played in 3 games and he is one of the best shooters in the league). 

I'd put Minnesota a bit better and in the 45-50 win range, which if the Jazz implode, might just be enough for 4th in the West next season.

In this week's edition of "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" starring Moranis. Jerry Bayless and his 36% career 3 point shooting is one of the "best shooters in the league." 36% would have been tied for 81st in the league with Butler and Karl Anthony Town, Butler has been called a poor shooter by others on this forum. Bayless had a great shooting season two years ago hitting 43% in an injury shortened campaign. However, his two full seasons prior to that he shot 30% and 35%. He would have ranked 141st int he league in his last full season. Yet, based on a hot shooting season in 2015-2016 in 50 games he is now one of the best shooters in the league. This concludes today's episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Bayless' shooting % is quite erratic from year to year.  In his last season with the Bucks, Bayless shot 43.7 3p% on 4.4 attempts per game playing off ball with Giannis.  He'll be playing that same role with Simmons and Fultz.  The prior season with the Bucks he only shot 30.8 3p% on 1.6 attempts per game but Giannis wasn't running their offense.  Snell's 3pt% jumped to 40.6 playing with Giannis last season.  It could just be that Bayless and Snell ended up with more open 3s with Giannis running the offense. 

One concern to note with Bayless' shooting is that he missed almost all of last season with a hand injury. 

Re: The History of the Infamous Lakers/Sacramento Pick
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2017, 08:02:04 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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They were trying to clear space to sign some free agents, which ended up being Rondo, Koufos, and Belinelli. I don't remember who their original targets were, but they were predictably rebuffed by any player who actually had options.

It's just the age old story of a team thinking they would play a lot better than they did, or delusionally thinking that they could actually attract some real talent to play for them.

Thanks for that, TP.

It certainly seems to vindicate the Process, and Hinkie. Can't see any non-major market team trading away first rounders now.

Interesting, that not only does Philly have 3 probable multi-year all stars, but they seem to have ultimately won the PR battle.

https://clutchpoints.com/76ers-record-breaking-ticket-sales-anticipation/
This was always going to happen.  Embiid's second injury set the timeline back a bit, but this was always going to be the result.  The real question is of course, what will the win/loss result end up being as that is the true measure of whether or not the Process was a success. 

I really wonder what Hinkie would have been able to do with the team building phase if he was given the chance to do it.  He had no real team building sense early on, but he wasn't trying to do that.  He is such a smart guy, I think he would have figured out how to build the team and add the right pieces around the players.  Instead Philly is stuck with the Colangelo's who will probably mess it up and then Hinkie will get blamed even though it wouldn't have been his fault.

It is a bit humorous to me. The TWolves have a star center prospect that was in the conversation for the all-star game last year that has zero serious injury concerns at this time. They just got a top 20 player in the NBA in his prime in Butler. They have Wiggins, who was hyped as a perennial all-star, but has only proven to be an elite scorer so far in his NBA career.
They have a solid big in Dieng that averaged 10 and 8 last year on 50% shooting and started to flash a 3 point shot on very low volume. They have a league average veteran point guard that is a very good passer and defender. They have 85 million in committed salary for next season and 11 million of that is to an expiring Pecovic. Yet everyone is losing their mind for the 76ers team that has players with serious injury issues and two other completely unproven players and we never talk about the Wolves..
The Wolves had a very bright future before they traded for Butler, who should help balance out the roster a bit.  I still don't like the Towns and Dieng fit, but swapping Lavine for Butler should immensely help the backcourt balance.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Wolves ended up 4th in the West next year (obviously pending free agency).  Similarly if the Sixers end up with someone like Redick to help balance the backcourt, I could see them possibly being a top 6 team in the East (obviously again pending free agency).  I mean it isn't unrealistic to see a 15 game win jump adding Simmons, Fultz, Embiid, and Redick.

But you are projecting the Wolves could be 4th in the west (a tougher conference) and you are saying maybe the 76ers could end up 6th if they maybe convince a sought after 33 year old free agent that has never won a ring in his career to join them for a potential first round exit.

 So wouldn't that imply the Wolves are at a lot more exciting position?

It is also interesting that I have seen you argue in other threads that rookies don't really have an impact on wins unless it is a shaq or lebron type talent yet you are saying the 76ers get a 15 jump from having simmons and fultz. They are not really "adding" embiid considering 60% of their wins last year came with him playing and he is hardly expected to play 82 games this year.

Did you come up with the title for the show "it's always sunny in Philadelphia"? It seems to be your disposition for assessing their team. In the last two weeks you have argued you could see them getting Iggy, Lowry and now Reddick.
The Wolves are further along because they didn't have injuries and they added Butler.  I'm not really sure the West is better than the East except at the top.  The West has 3 teams that might end up as the 3 best teams in basketball, but not much else in the middle especially with Paul leaving LA  and the uncertainty in Utah.  (obviously if Hayward and Hill return they should be the 4th seed again pretty easily).  OKC, MEM, POR, DEN, NO, DAL those aren't great teams by any stretch of the imagination.  Obviously CLE and BOS should both be very good again, MIL is coming on, WAS and TOR should both be pretty good (if their free agents return).  After that MIA, CHO, DET are all in the same mix as those western teams.  ATL could be depending on Millsap.  The Knicks still have Anthony and Porzingis.  Chicago still has Wade and Rondo. 

Embiid played 31 games, the Sixers won 13 of them (of course they were 8-2 in his last 10 games).  His last game was January 27th (he played in 31 of the 45 games).  Even assuming he still misses about a third of the games, if he just plays till the end of the year that is 57 games or so.  At the same win percentage that is 24 wins and 33 losses.  They won 15 of the 51 games he sat.  Even assuming the same percentage that is another 7 wins, which puts them at 31 wins (or 3 wins better) and that doesn't account for Simmons, Fultz, or Redick (in this example).  Nor does it account for expected growth from Embiid or Saric who were rookies last year (you generally see the biggest jump from year 1 to year 2 on players that get respectable playing time). 

I expect Philly to be a 40-45 win team and they might be that even without someone like Redick (Bayless only played in 3 games and he is one of the best shooters in the league). 

I'd put Minnesota a bit better and in the 45-50 win range, which if the Jazz implode, might just be enough for 4th in the West next season.

In this week's edition of "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" starring Moranis. Jerry Bayless and his 36% career 3 point shooting is one of the "best shooters in the league." 36% would have been tied for 81st in the league with Butler and Karl Anthony Town, Butler has been called a poor shooter by others on this forum. Bayless had a great shooting season two years ago hitting 43% in an injury shortened campaign. However, his two full seasons prior to that he shot 30% and 35%. He would have ranked 141st int he league in his last full season. Yet, based on a hot shooting season in 2015-2016 in 50 games he is now one of the best shooters in the league. This concludes today's episode of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
Bayless' shooting % is quite erratic from year to year.  In his last season with the Bucks, Bayless shot 43.7 3p% on 4.4 attempts per game playing off ball with Giannis.  He'll be playing that same role with Simmons and Fultz.  The prior season with the Bucks he only shot 30.8 3p% on 1.6 attempts per game but Giannis wasn't running their offense.  Snell's 3pt% jumped to 40.6 playing with Giannis last season.  It could just be that Bayless and Snell ended up with more open 3s with Giannis running the offense. 

One concern to note with Bayless' shooting is that he missed almost all of last season with a hand injury.

I think he could be a solid shooter in the right system. But he is essentially a journeyman vet at this point that may be pretty good at hitting open 3's in the right system coming off a serious hand injury. Calling him "one of the best shooters in the league" based off one 50 game stretch is pretty ludicrous and a prime Always Sunny in Philadelphia segment.