WOJ BOMB: Chris Paul to Houston

[BitterJim]

Probably not a good sign for the Cs pursuit of PG13.

Why? Neither Houston nor LAC can come anywhere close to our package. We can probably put 3-4x times the amount of value to Indy in a deal.

If anything, I think it makes the George and Hayward/Griffin pairing much, much more likely, because with 3 super teams now in the West that neither Utah or LAC have any realistic chance of touching, I think we can probably get either one now.

I think Hayward is pretty much a certainty at this point, and if Danny thinks George will cost too much or won't stay, then now the possibility of a Griffin sign and trade has opened up.

This is a pretty big win for us, I believe.

Griffin is due to make 21 million next  season. Danny would have to act fast before he opts out officially. What package would he offer here? Smart, Crowder, Zellar, and future Memphis?

We'd have to trade for Griffin before 7/1 if he was willing to opt into his deal. If that's the case, why not do the same for Paul George and then try to get Gordon to sign. Maybe this has been explained ad nauseum and I've missed it - but why couldn't we trade for PG now if we send out matching salaries (Bradley+Crowder+whatever filler) and then go for Gordon in free agency? Why is getting Gordon first such a priority??

Because if we deal for PG13 after signing Hayward, we only need to send out $15.7 million in order to trade for George.  If we trade for George first, then we need to send out $19.5 million in salary, since we would have George's salary butting into our cap space.  Trading for him after signing Hayward just lets us take advantage of the salary matching rules by bringing in 125% of the salary we send out

[hwangjini_1]

Probably not a good sign for the Cs pursuit of PG13.

why not? just curious as to your reasoning here.

[saltlover]

Want to add that if this deal is being completed before July 1st, Houston is not sending out enough salary by a few million.

I'm going to respond to myself by predicting Trevor Ariza is also included in this deal.  Otherwise the numbers don't work.

Responding to myself again.  Apparently the Clippers just bought DeAndre Liggins' contract from Dalllas.  As the Rockets have cap room, this can instantly be sent to the Clippers as part of matching salaries.  They can buy a couple million more in contracts to continue to gain salary filler.  Maybe they want to take on Demetrius Jackson from us?

Oh, wow, that'd actually be really nice.  Make it easier for us to clear max space and make life easier for them.  I'd throw in Mickey, too (and Zeller, but I doubt they can/would take him on)

They've got about $2 million in cap space left.  So if we helped, it could be only one of Mickey and Jackson.

Ah, okay.  Would they take Jackson alone? Maybe send them some cash with him? Getting that guaranteed money off the books would be nice

Houston would be sending the cash.  But you know Danny wants a future second.

[Moranis]

I'm interested to see what LA does.  I actually think Griffin going back is more likely now.  It will be his team.  Much like Westbrook in OKC.  He is out of the shadow and will be the face of the franchise.  Of course maybe he just wants to win, which doesn't happen now (though if they bring him and Redick back, LA strikes me as a low level playoff team).  I also think they bring Redick back and make a real play for Paul George.  They picked up a 1st and another young player from Houston.  No idea if a trade centered around Dekkar, Stone, and B. Johnson with Rivers (for salary) and the better of the Houston/LA 2018 1st is enough, but the Pacers might really like one of those guys. 

[jambr380]

So, time to snag something nice off of LAC's fire sale?

I would do a deal for Jordan, but he makes more than George and is in the same contract situation (guaranteed next year w/ player option for 2018-19). Crowder, AB, and picks isn't enough salary.

Hard to add Jordan's salary without moving top prospects and/or compromising our ability to sign a max FA, though. So that's probably a no even if they're trading him (which they've entertained as an option, by all accounts)...

Something like Crowder, AB, Rozier, and Jackson works on the trade checker, but it has us adding ~$4 million so signing a (near) max contract will be an issue.

Oh, I would wait until after Hayward signed and then I would still only do it if he agreed to pick up his option (and it's a pretty good option at a shade over $24M). That way we get him for two years at less than [new] max salary and can make a real decision on whether or not to keep him a year after we have at least one of Ayton/Bamba on our roster.

He would also be a great matching piece for an AD trade next summer and we would still have all of our high end picks/player assets to deal.

[saltlover]

Probably not a good sign for the Cs pursuit of PG13.

Why? Neither Houston nor LAC can come anywhere close to our package. We can probably put 3-4x times the amount of value to Indy in a deal.

If anything, I think it makes the George and Hayward/Griffin pairing much, much more likely, because with 3 super teams now in the West that neither Utah or LAC have any realistic chance of touching, I think we can probably get either one now.

I think Hayward is pretty much a certainty at this point, and if Danny thinks George will cost too much or won't stay, then now the possibility of a Griffin sign and trade has opened up.

This is a pretty big win for us, I believe.

Griffin is due to make 21 million next  season. Danny would have to act fast before he opts out officially. What package would he offer here? Smart, Crowder, Zellar, and future Memphis?

We'd have to trade for Griffin before 7/1 if he was willing to opt into his deal. If that's the case, why not do the same for Paul George and then try to get Gordon to sign. Maybe this has been explained ad nauseum and I've missed it - but why couldn't we trade for PG now if we send out matching salaries (Bradley+Crowder+whatever filler) and then go for Gordon in free agency? Why is getting Gordon first such a priority??

Because if we deal for PG13 after signing Hayward, we only need to send out $15.7 million in order to trade for George.  If we trade for George first, then we need to send out $19.5 million in salary, since we would have George's salary butting into our cap space.  Trading for him after signing Hayward just lets us take advantage of the salary matching rules by bringing in 125% of the salary we send out

$14.5 million since we wouldn't be taxpayers.

[cousytoheinsohn]

Looks like Doc is well into the process of running another good thing into the ground.

[BitterJim]

Want to add that if this deal is being completed before July 1st, Houston is not sending out enough salary by a few million.

I'm going to respond to myself by predicting Trevor Ariza is also included in this deal.  Otherwise the numbers don't work.

Responding to myself again.  Apparently the Clippers just bought DeAndre Liggins' contract from Dalllas.  As the Rockets have cap room, this can instantly be sent to the Clippers as part of matching salaries.  They can buy a couple million more in contracts to continue to gain salary filler.  Maybe they want to take on Demetrius Jackson from us?

Oh, wow, that'd actually be really nice.  Make it easier for us to clear max space and make life easier for them.  I'd throw in Mickey, too (and Zeller, but I doubt they can/would take him on)

They've got about $2 million in cap space left.  So if we helped, it could be only one of Mickey and Jackson.

Ah, okay.  Would they take Jackson alone? Maybe send them some cash with him? Getting that guaranteed money off the books would be nice

Houston would be sending the cash.  But you know Danny wants a future second.

Aren't there other non-guaranteed deals they could get that would have a smaller guarantee, though? I know they'll just be sending it straight to LA, but I would think that a smaller guarantee would be LA's preference.

Maybe we wouldn't have to send out money, but I can't see us getting a pick.  Maybe a little cash (like, a very small amount), but even Danny can't get a pick in a deal like that

[RJ87]

Looks like Doc is well into the process of running another good thing into the ground.

According to Woj, Doc and Co. met with CP3 yesterday to "discuss his future with the team". Likely means he told them he was out, the Clips just worked it out so they could benefit - even marginally.

[jambr380]

Because if we deal for PG13 after signing Hayward, we only need to send out $15.7 million in order to trade for George.  If we trade for George first, then we need to send out $19.5 million in salary, since we would have George's salary butting into our cap space.  Trading for him after signing Hayward just lets us take advantage of the salary matching rules by bringing in 125% of the salary we send out

$14.5 million since we wouldn't be taxpayers.

I've seen you reference this figure before and remember the non-taxpayer clause, but am still not totally clear - do you mind explaining the math? I was always under the impression that we could receive 125% plus $100,000 of the salary we send out - how come you are able to subtract $1.2M in this case? Thanks and tp in advance!

[saltlover]

Want to add that if this deal is being completed before July 1st, Houston is not sending out enough salary by a few million.

I'm going to respond to myself by predicting Trevor Ariza is also included in this deal.  Otherwise the numbers don't work.

Responding to myself again.  Apparently the Clippers just bought DeAndre Liggins' contract from Dalllas.  As the Rockets have cap room, this can instantly be sent to the Clippers as part of matching salaries.  They can buy a couple million more in contracts to continue to gain salary filler.  Maybe they want to take on Demetrius Jackson from us?

Oh, wow, that'd actually be really nice.  Make it easier for us to clear max space and make life easier for them.  I'd throw in Mickey, too (and Zeller, but I doubt they can/would take him on)

They've got about $2 million in cap space left.  So if we helped, it could be only one of Mickey and Jackson.

Ah, okay.  Would they take Jackson alone? Maybe send them some cash with him? Getting that guaranteed money off the books would be nice

Houston would be sending the cash.  But you know Danny wants a future second.

Aren't there other non-guaranteed deals they could get that would have a smaller guarantee, though? I know they'll just be sending it straight to LA, but I would think that a smaller guarantee would be LA's preference.

Maybe we wouldn't have to send out money, but I can't see us getting a pick.  Maybe a little cash (like, a very small amount), but even Danny can't get a pick in a deal like that

Houston just got Tim Quarterman, who makes $543k.  They can take back up to $1.55 million more.  Jackson makes $1.45 million.  I'm not sure if there are too many better fits.

[BitterJim]

Because if we deal for PG13 after signing Hayward, we only need to send out $15.7 million in order to trade for George.  If we trade for George first, then we need to send out $19.5 million in salary, since we would have George's salary butting into our cap space.  Trading for him after signing Hayward just lets us take advantage of the salary matching rules by bringing in 125% of the salary we send out

$14.5 million since we wouldn't be taxpayers.

I've seen you reference this figure before and remember the non-taxpayer clause, but am still not totally clear - do you mind explaining the math? I was always under the impression that we could receive 125% plus $100,000 of the salary we send out - how come you are able to subtract $1.2M in this case? Thanks and tp in advance!

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q84

The outgoing salary would be less than $20 million, so we could bring in outgoing salary + $5 million.  So, to bring in $19.5 million we's have to send out just $14.5 million

[BitterJim]

Probably not a good sign for the Cs pursuit of PG13.

Why? Neither Houston nor LAC can come anywhere close to our package. We can probably put 3-4x times the amount of value to Indy in a deal.

If anything, I think it makes the George and Hayward/Griffin pairing much, much more likely, because with 3 super teams now in the West that neither Utah or LAC have any realistic chance of touching, I think we can probably get either one now.

I think Hayward is pretty much a certainty at this point, and if Danny thinks George will cost too much or won't stay, then now the possibility of a Griffin sign and trade has opened up.

This is a pretty big win for us, I believe.

Griffin is due to make 21 million next  season. Danny would have to act fast before he opts out officially. What package would he offer here? Smart, Crowder, Zellar, and future Memphis?

We'd have to trade for Griffin before 7/1 if he was willing to opt into his deal. If that's the case, why not do the same for Paul George and then try to get Gordon to sign. Maybe this has been explained ad nauseum and I've missed it - but why couldn't we trade for PG now if we send out matching salaries (Bradley+Crowder+whatever filler) and then go for Gordon in free agency? Why is getting Gordon first such a priority??

Because if we deal for PG13 after signing Hayward, we only need to send out $15.7 million in order to trade for George.  If we trade for George first, then we need to send out $19.5 million in salary, since we would have George's salary butting into our cap space.  Trading for him after signing Hayward just lets us take advantage of the salary matching rules by bringing in 125% of the salary we send out

$14.5 million since we wouldn't be taxpayers.

Is the line for it at the tax line? I thought it was the cap

Although, actually, that would make no sense (you could just use cap space, duh).  Good catch

Edit: grrrr, I submitted this one before the previous post.  Dang "Connection Problems"

[jpotter33]

https://clutchpoints.com/j-j-redick-wont-be-re-signing-with-clippers/

Reddick reportedly not considering resigning with the Clippers now.

With as many holes as that team has to fill, you have to think Griffin goes elsewhere. The only scenario where I can see him staying there now is if no other team is willing to offer him a max, which simply won't happen.

[saltlover]

Because if we deal for PG13 after signing Hayward, we only need to send out $15.7 million in order to trade for George.  If we trade for George first, then we need to send out $19.5 million in salary, since we would have George's salary butting into our cap space.  Trading for him after signing Hayward just lets us take advantage of the salary matching rules by bringing in 125% of the salary we send out

$14.5 million since we wouldn't be taxpayers.

I've seen you reference this figure before and remember the non-taxpayer clause, but am still not totally clear - do you mind explaining the math? I was always under the impression that we could receive 125% plus $100,000 of the salary we send out - how come you are able to subtract $1.2M in this case? Thanks and tp in advance!

Between $9.8 and $19.9 million, you can take back your outgoing salary plus $5 million, if you are below the luxury tax after the trade.  So it lets you bring back a little more than the 125% amount, which applies above $19.9 million or if you're a taxpayer.