Author Topic: Wojo Dolan thinking long and hard of Phil Jackson as president of knicks  (Read 6468 times)

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Re: Official: Knicks and Phil Jackson parting ways.
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2017, 07:51:24 AM »

Offline PAOBoston

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If the Knicks do not go hard after David Griffin, I am at a loss for words for how truly dysfunctional they are. He would be a major coup for NYK.

Also, you can pretty much forget any dreams about the Zinger in green anytime soon.

Re: Official: Knicks and Phil Jackson parting ways.
« Reply #16 on: June 28, 2017, 08:11:13 AM »

Offline Moranis

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I always said Jackson was a overrated coach..Any coach could win with Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc.. then tried his hand at president and failed miserbly
and yet coaches tried before him and couldn't do it.  Heck the Lakers were a trainwreck after Phil left the first time and they had a 2 time championship winning coach there.  Phil was a great coach.  One of the best ever.  He was an absolutely terrible executive though.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Official: Knicks and Phil Jackson parting ways.
« Reply #17 on: June 28, 2017, 08:20:35 AM »

Offline Surferdad

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Phil Jackson was terrible. This is a victory for the fans of NY. I expect David Griffin to be the next GM. Now they can throw the stupid triangle out where it belongs.
Yup, and therefore probably not good news for the Celtics.

Re: Official: Knicks and Phil Jackson parting ways.
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2017, 08:21:58 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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I always said Jackson was a overrated coach..Any coach could win with Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc.. then tried his hand at president and failed miserbly
and yet coaches tried before him and couldn't do it.  Heck the Lakers were a trainwreck after Phil left the first time and they had a 2 time championship winning coach there.  Phil was a great coach.  One of the best ever.  He was an absolutely terrible executive though.

I disagree about the "great coach" thing. I mean it's hard to not be a great coach if you have the best players. He always coached with the best players. I'd rather be lucky than good.


Offline slamtheking

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I always said Jackson was a overrated coach..Any coach could win with Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc.. then tried his hand at president and failed miserbly
and yet coaches tried before him and couldn't do it.  Heck the Lakers were a trainwreck after Phil left the first time and they had a 2 time championship winning coach there.  Phil was a great coach.  One of the best ever.  He was an absolutely terrible executive though.

I disagree about the "great coach" thing. I mean it's hard to not be a great coach if you have the best players. He always coached with the best players. I'd rather be lucky than good.
Agreed.  the measure of a great coach is to achieve greatness when not working with the greatest players.  He's yet to do that. 

let's see how he would do if working with a team of below-average talent.  let him try coaching that Knicks squad.  not that he'd ever take that challenge but if he could make them overachieve for a few seasons, I'd reconsider my opinion of him.

Re: Official: Knicks and Phil Jackson parting ways.
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2017, 08:51:13 AM »

Offline fantankerous

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Wow. Dolan has a spine.  Didn't think he had it in him, especially after the opt in. Figured it'd be ride or die with Phil.

So Phil, where did your ego get you this time, huh?

It gets him 24m without having to work.  I think he'll be okay.

Offline Smokeeye123

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Im happy for Knicks fans. The league would be better with a good NY franchise.

Offline Moranis

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I always said Jackson was a overrated coach..Any coach could win with Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc.. then tried his hand at president and failed miserbly
and yet coaches tried before him and couldn't do it.  Heck the Lakers were a trainwreck after Phil left the first time and they had a 2 time championship winning coach there.  Phil was a great coach.  One of the best ever.  He was an absolutely terrible executive though.

I disagree about the "great coach" thing. I mean it's hard to not be a great coach if you have the best players. He always coached with the best players. I'd rather be lucky than good.
Agreed.  the measure of a great coach is to achieve greatness when not working with the greatest players.  He's yet to do that. 

let's see how he would do if working with a team of below-average talent.  let him try coaching that Knicks squad.  not that he'd ever take that challenge but if he could make them overachieve for a few seasons, I'd reconsider my opinion of him.
so then Auerbach wasn't a great coach.  Popovich isn't a great coach.  etc.  You don't win 11 titles if you aren't a great coach.  Sure you need talent to win even 1 title and all time talent to win multiple titles, but not every coach can win with talent.  I mean the Warriors went from a 51 game first round loser to winning 67 games and the title by merely swapping Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr.  The Lakers with Shaq/Kobe had a good coach in Del Harris for four full seasons and never even made the Finals.  Phil's first 3 seasons in LA were all title wins. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Offline slamtheking

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I always said Jackson was a overrated coach..Any coach could win with Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc.. then tried his hand at president and failed miserbly
and yet coaches tried before him and couldn't do it.  Heck the Lakers were a trainwreck after Phil left the first time and they had a 2 time championship winning coach there.  Phil was a great coach.  One of the best ever.  He was an absolutely terrible executive though.

I disagree about the "great coach" thing. I mean it's hard to not be a great coach if you have the best players. He always coached with the best players. I'd rather be lucky than good.
Agreed.  the measure of a great coach is to achieve greatness when not working with the greatest players.  He's yet to do that. 

let's see how he would do if working with a team of below-average talent.  let him try coaching that Knicks squad.  not that he'd ever take that challenge but if he could make them overachieve for a few seasons, I'd reconsider my opinion of him.
so then Auerbach wasn't a great coach.  Popovich isn't a great coach.  etc.  You don't win 11 titles if you aren't a great coach.  Sure you need talent to win even 1 title and all time talent to win multiple titles, but not every coach can win with talent.  I mean the Warriors went from a 51 game first round loser to winning 67 games and the title by merely swapping Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr.  The Lakers with Shaq/Kobe had a good coach in Del Harris for four full seasons and never even made the Finals.  Phil's first 3 seasons in LA were all title wins. 
Red and Pop coached teams that exceeded expectations a number of times and were instrumental in keeping their franchises in the chase. 

as for GSW, I would consider Kerr a solid coach even though he's had some help due to his health issues.  I think the GSW improvement has more to do with Jackson not being a good coach.

Shaq/Kobe?  you mean because they didn't win titles in years the Jordan Bulls and Duncan/Robinson Spurs won titles that Harris would be a bad coach and Phil is great?  please.  Phil lost to SAS as well after their 3-year run of title.  Harris is a solid coach regardless of what he won or not.

Offline ederson

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so then Auerbach wasn't a great coach.  Popovich isn't a great coach.  etc.  You don't win 11 titles if you aren't a great coach.  Sure you need talent to win even 1 title and all time talent to win multiple titles, but not every coach can win with talent.  I mean the Warriors went from a 51 game first round loser to winning 67 games and the title by merely swapping Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr.  The Lakers with Shaq/Kobe had a good coach in Del Harris for four full seasons and never even made the Finals.  Phil's first 3 seasons in LA were all title wins.

I wanted to say exactly the same thing ..... Red won titles with possibly the best player ever and half of the Hall of fame in the roster. 

If anyone thinks Jackson is not a good coach i am not going to try to change his mind but at least have the common sense to use a different  the argument than "his is not good because he won with the best players of his era"

Offline obnoxiousmime

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The move was risky because the knock on Jackson was that he never built a team himself before. He always swooped in on ready-made teams with superstars already on the roster. The other issue was, at his age he clearly was just taking Dolan's money and running, not putting in a lot of time and effort into running the organization. Essentially, he was just a figurehead, albeit one that had a crazy commitment to the triangle.

I guess it's too late to rip Jackson off now. Oh well...

Offline Moranis

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I always said Jackson was a overrated coach..Any coach could win with Jordan, Pippen, Kobe, Shaq, etc.. then tried his hand at president and failed miserbly
and yet coaches tried before him and couldn't do it.  Heck the Lakers were a trainwreck after Phil left the first time and they had a 2 time championship winning coach there.  Phil was a great coach.  One of the best ever.  He was an absolutely terrible executive though.

I disagree about the "great coach" thing. I mean it's hard to not be a great coach if you have the best players. He always coached with the best players. I'd rather be lucky than good.
Agreed.  the measure of a great coach is to achieve greatness when not working with the greatest players.  He's yet to do that. 

let's see how he would do if working with a team of below-average talent.  let him try coaching that Knicks squad.  not that he'd ever take that challenge but if he could make them overachieve for a few seasons, I'd reconsider my opinion of him.
so then Auerbach wasn't a great coach.  Popovich isn't a great coach.  etc.  You don't win 11 titles if you aren't a great coach.  Sure you need talent to win even 1 title and all time talent to win multiple titles, but not every coach can win with talent.  I mean the Warriors went from a 51 game first round loser to winning 67 games and the title by merely swapping Mark Jackson for Steve Kerr.  The Lakers with Shaq/Kobe had a good coach in Del Harris for four full seasons and never even made the Finals.  Phil's first 3 seasons in LA were all title wins. 
Red and Pop coached teams that exceeded expectations a number of times and were instrumental in keeping their franchises in the chase. 

as for GSW, I would consider Kerr a solid coach even though he's had some help due to his health issues.  I think the GSW improvement has more to do with Jackson not being a good coach.

Shaq/Kobe?  you mean because they didn't win titles in years the Jordan Bulls and Duncan/Robinson Spurs won titles that Harris would be a bad coach and Phil is great?  please.  Phil lost to SAS as well after their 3-year run of title.  Harris is a solid coach regardless of what he won or not.
Harris only had Kobe/Shaq for two full seasons, so I want to correct my misstatement earlier.  That said the 97 Lakers lost in 5 games to the Jazz.  The 98 Lakers got swept by the Jazz.  Odd, that isn't the Spurs or Bulls.  The 99 Lakers had Rambis coaching in the playoffs and they got swept by the Spurs (of course Phil swept the Spurs two years in a row before losing in 03 to a different iteration of the Spurs which the Lakers then beat in 04). 

You are just playing semantics with Red and Pop.  I mean the Spurs won 61, 55, 54, and 53 games in seasons and lost in the 1st round of the playoffs.  heck they were the defending NBA champions in 00 and lost in the first round (that was the 53 win season) and then did the same thing again in the 15 playoffs (that was the 55 win season).  Is that exceeding expectations?

Red was a great GM.  The best ever, but you need to separate the GM from the coach in this analysis.  Put it this way, Bill Russell was a player/coach for 3 seasons.  the Celtics won 2 titles while Bill was the coach and still playing.  I mean how focused could Russell really be on the coaching when he is on the floor playing, yet the team constructed by Red still was able to win 2 titles.  That doesn't mean Red wasn't a great coach, but his coaching resume is often blurred with his GM team building resume. 

Phil Jackson was a great coach.  He is one of the best coaches in history.  You don't win 11 titles without being a great coach.  It is impossible to win that much and not be great.  He was able to get great players to buy into his system and then used that system to achieve success only seen by Red Auerbach. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Phil Jackson Canned!
« Reply #27 on: June 28, 2017, 01:24:17 PM »

Offline liam

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Re: Phil Jackson Canned!
« Reply #28 on: June 28, 2017, 01:28:44 PM »

Offline liam

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I guess forcing that Triangle down everyones throats and threatening to trade your stars isn't such a good way to go.

Re: Phil Jackson Canned!
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2017, 01:51:15 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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I guess forcing that Triangle down everyones throats and threatening to trade your stars isn't such a good way to go.
That for sure. Hopefully Frank will be ok too http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2718554-frank-ntilikina-suffers-knee-injury-in-1st-knicks-practice-after-2017-nba-draft
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