WOJ BOMB, paul george and hayward!!!?

[Boris Badenov]

Trading Horford sends a signal to every FA out there that promises won't be kept by this team.

I don't think FA contracts come with any promise that the player would never be traded, at least those contracts that don't have no trade clauses.

I don't think Horford will be traded this season but depending on how things play out, it would not surprise me one bit if he is traded at some point (the point where our team starts to go young).

Has anybody come up with a viable way to clear enough cap room to sign those two players without trading Al Horford?  If they have I'd like to hear it.

It's not at all complicated to acquire both, and we're allowed to pay Hayward a max now and George a max after the season.

If we wanted to renegotiate George's deal to give him the max this year it would be tough to do, but otherwise the only question is whether Wyc will cut the check.

It seems complicated to me...

According to http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.htmlThe Celtics currently have 72 million in guaranteed contracts for 2017-2018 before signing any of this years rookies or adding the contracts of Abdel Nader, Gerson Yabusele, or Ante Zizic.

The projected cap is 99 million.

Gordan could be offered a max of 4 years 132 million according to http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865679919/Upon-further-review-Hayward-has-earned-max-money-contract.html.  That averages out to 33 million a year... 

If the Celtics sign Gordan Hayward at 33 million a year they'll immediately be over the cap by 5 million... Can they do that?

Even if they backload the contract so that he makes 27 million in his first year they'll be at the cap with only 11 players under contract.

Bird, Allen, Tatum, Ojeleye, Kelly, Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, and Gerald Green are still unsigned.  Nader, Yabs, and Zizic are still unaccounted for and we haven't even started discussing Paul George who currently makes 18 million.

Paul George currently makes 18 million a year and is eligible to be resigned to a 4 year 133 million dollar contract... Once again that's a little over 33 million a year. If we traded Jay Crowder and Avery Bradley in a deal for George and then resigned him to a backloaded extension where he made 27 million his first year the Celtics would be 13 million over the cap with a roster of 10 players, but even if they DON'T resign him until the end of the season (which seems like a HUGE gamble if you're trading away draft picks and players for him) they're still 4 million over the cap.

And all of this is with their rookies unsigned, all their rfa unsigned, and all their stashes still stashed... I don't really know what the rules are regarding signing players once you're over the cap and luxury tax, and future free agents and draft picks but this does not seem like a good situation to be in. 

Can anyone explain how this would actually work under the NBA cap rules?

How far back in the thread have you read?

Or actually, how far into Roy's last post did you read?

I'm not trying to be adversarial here, but other people have worked their butts off learning and sharing information about this. Over and over. Even in this thread. And in many others.

[Celts Fan 508]

I could see the Celtics targeting Bosh if the Hayward/George deals go through for our exception.

He would be worth the gamble in my opinion.

[Valid]

I could see the Celtics targeting Bosh if the Hayward/George deals go through for our exception.

He would be worth the gamble in my opinion.

Yeah. I'm not a fan of signing a guy with children who can die on the court at moment's notice.

[MattyIce]

How does the following lineup

IT
BROWN
GEORGE
HAYWARD
HORFORD

rebound? Still a problem IMO. May have to move Hayward to guard, move Brown to bench and bring in a stud rebounder on league minimum.

It doesn't rebound.  I don't think anything we do solves that problem though.

If that lineup played to its potential, rebounds wouldn't matter that much.

Exactly. No team has it all. The Warriors and Cavs would have to worry about stopping this lineup.

God just imagine a lineup of Thomas, 6'7 Brown, 6'8 Heyward, 6'9 George and 6'10 Horford, or Thomas, 6'8 Heyward, 6'8 Tatum, 6'9 George, 6'10 Horford. That is as close to position-less basketball as you get. Brad Stevens has gotta feel like a kid on Christmas morning if this happens.

have you not heard?  http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=92083.0

[IDreamCeltics]

Trading Horford sends a signal to every FA out there that promises won't be kept by this team.

I don't think FA contracts come with any promise that the player would never be traded, at least those contracts that don't have no trade clauses.

I don't think Horford will be traded this season but depending on how things play out, it would not surprise me one bit if he is traded at some point (the point where our team starts to go young).

Has anybody come up with a viable way to clear enough cap room to sign those two players without trading Al Horford?  If they have I'd like to hear it.

It's not at all complicated to acquire both, and we're allowed to pay Hayward a max now and George a max after the season.

If we wanted to renegotiate George's deal to give him the max this year it would be tough to do, but otherwise the only question is whether Wyc will cut the check.

It seems complicated to me...

According to http://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/BOS.htmlThe Celtics currently have 72 million in guaranteed contracts for 2017-2018 before signing any of this years rookies or adding the contracts of Abdel Nader, Gerson Yabusele, or Ante Zizic.

The projected cap is 99 million.

Gordan could be offered a max of 4 years 132 million according to http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865679919/Upon-further-review-Hayward-has-earned-max-money-contract.html.  That averages out to 33 million a year... 

If the Celtics sign Gordan Hayward at 33 million a year they'll immediately be over the cap by 5 million... Can they do that?

Even if they backload the contract so that he makes 27 million in his first year they'll be at the cap with only 11 players under contract.

Bird, Allen, Tatum, Ojeleye, Kelly, Amir Johnson, Jonas Jerebko, and Gerald Green are still unsigned.  Nader, Yabs, and Zizic are still unaccounted for and we haven't even started discussing Paul George who currently makes 18 million.

Paul George currently makes 18 million a year and is eligible to be resigned to a 4 year 133 million dollar contract... Once again that's a little over 33 million a year. If we traded Jay Crowder and Avery Bradley in a deal for George and then resigned him to a backloaded extension where he made 27 million his first year the Celtics would be 13 million over the cap with a roster of 10 players, but even if they DON'T resign him until the end of the season (which seems like a HUGE gamble if you're trading away draft picks and players for him) they're still 4 million over the cap.

And all of this is with their rookies unsigned, all their rfa unsigned, and all their stashes still stashed... I don't really know what the rules are regarding signing players once you're over the cap and luxury tax, and future free agents and draft picks but this does not seem like a good situation to be in. 

Can anyone explain how this would actually work under the NBA cap rules?

How far back in the thread have you read?

Or actually, how far into Roy's last post did you read?

I'm not trying to be adversarial here, but other people have worked their butts off learning and sharing information about this. Over and over. Even in this thread. And in many others.

Uhuh... But you're not one of them I take it.  Feel free to pass along a link, or simply not respond next time.

[Dino Pitino]

How much less than the max would George take in a renegotiate-and-extend (since it could earn him more in total anyway) and would that margin allow us to keep Smart?

[celticinorlando]

You can bet that Boston will be on Hayward's doorstep the minute free agency starts

[RJ87]

Can we just wait and see how this all plays out. The fans have gotten wayyyy ahead of themselves.

[Roy H.]

[Rosco917]

I would be a home run if we could grab both. 

But realistically lets get Hayward for sure, and see what the attitude of PG is to signing an extension. I'm not in favor of renting George without an extension. I'd rather go with a player that is thrilled to play for the Boston Celtics, and compete for a ring.

[Cman]

https://mobile.twitter.com/adammkaufman/status/879743771537276929


Smart most likely candidate to stay. Crowder and bradley most likely to be moved

No brainer that Crowder and Bradley are moved to make room, money wise.
Medium term, i.e., next summer, IT will be offered a below market contract extension and if he balks, he walks. Cs will still be loaded with talent, youth and draft picks that they'll take the risk of him leaving.

[Bobshot]

How does the following lineup

IT
BROWN
GEORGE
HAYWARD
HORFORD

rebound? Still a problem IMO. May have to move Hayward to guard, move Brown to bench and bring in a stud rebounder on league minimum.

It doesn't rebound.  I don't think anything we do solves that problem though.

If that lineup played to its potential, rebounds wouldn't matter that much.

Exactly. No team has it all. The Warriors and Cavs would have to worry about stopping this lineup.

God just imagine a lineup of Thomas, 6'7 Brown, 6'8 Heyward, 6'9 George and 6'10 Horford, or Thomas, 6'8 Heyward, 6'8 Tatum, 6'9 George, 6'10 Horford. That is as close to position-less basketball as you get. Brad Stevens has gotta feel like a kid on Christmas morning if this happens.

Yeah. It really isn't much different from what GS is doing. Except with George and Hayward, Stevens has the O to match them.

[Bobshot]

Saw this idea on another board: Wouldn't a sign-and-trade for Hayward remove most of the situation's hairiness?

Absolutely. It would really help the C's to fill out their roster. The only issue is that they wouldn't be able to renegotiate and extend George if they got Hayward with a sign and trade instead of signing him to cap space.

It's the difference between creating cap space vs staying over the cap. If we stay over the cap, we could use Olynyk, Amir or Jerebko to match salaries where we would have to renounce those guys to get to max cap space.

I think if Hayward/George happens it will be without an extension for George, since it would cost him a lot of money to extend unless it was a renegotiate and extend.

I agree. I think Ainge might be concerned only about next year--not beyond that. He'll see where they are this time next year. George, IT and Bradley, among others will be FAs. He has the Nets pick and others. If George leaves, he has the money to extend IT, or even Bradley.
He will have Tatum and Brown improved. Maybe Zizic. Could be a different team in two years.
If they make the finals and George stays, he'll cross that bridge when he comes to it.

[Chief Macho]

I bash you green reamers all the time,  but if we lose Bradley and Smart, is this even close to the same team? Those two epitomize buying in..  I'm legitimately worried about the loss of their chemistry.

[Smokeeye123]

I bash you green reamers all the time,  but if we lose Bradley and Smart, is this even close to the same team? Those two epitomize buying in..  I'm legitimately worried about the loss of their chemistry.

Best option i saw was trading rozier/bradley/crowder, stashing yabusele and keeping smart.

Horford, george, hayward, smart, IT

With brown, tatum, zicic, semih off the bench is a good team