WOJ BOMB, paul george and hayward!!!?

[JBcat]

Count me among those who doesn't understand how you can both trade for and extend George without gutting your team. I would suspect that the C's, if they are interested in trading for George, will trade for him (maybe with Bradley and Crowder?) and then try to sign him with bird rights at the end of next year.

Another thing to keep in mind: It was widely reported last year that George wasn't thrilled with playing power forward. If you've got both Hayward and George, there's no getting around that scenario. I think that's a lineup that could work in terms of winning basketball games (even as we'd get killed on the boards), but I don't think it would be appealing to George.

Maybe you could expand the deal a little bit with Bradley, Crowder, Rozier (picks) for George and Serahin (works in the NBA trade machine). Another cheap big they have is Lavoy Allen.  Would help with big man depth. You are right though.  I don't believe George has been too crazy about playing PF in the past.

Horford
Seraphin or room exception free agent (Zach Randolph for example)
George
Hayward
Thomas

You could still play George at PF in small ball lineups just not full time.

[Bobshot]

For what it's worth, I'm still a skeptic on this rumor.  It seems much more likely that it's something the Pacers put out there to encourage the Lakers to step up their game than this is actually sourced from the Celtics.

This is very much worth noting. It's always important to ask why a rumor leaks.

I understand the skepticism, but what does LA have left to give up (that they'd be willing to do) and how could they possibly beat whatever we could offer?

Mike

True. Celtics have the best package to offer of any team. Bradley, Crowder and whatever draft picks it takes. Don't see anybody matching that.

[Roy H.]

Trading Horford sends a signal to every FA out there that promises won't be kept by this team.

I don't think FA contracts come with any promise that the player would never be traded, at least those contracts that don't have no trade clauses.

I don't think Horford will be traded this season but depending on how things play out, it would not surprise me one bit if he is traded at some point (the point where our team starts to go young).

Has anybody come up with a viable way to clear enough cap room to sign those two players without trading Al Horford?  If they have I'd like to hear it.

It's not at all complicated to acquire both, and we're allowed to pay Hayward a max now and George a max after the season.

If we wanted to renegotiate George's deal to give him the max this year it would be tough to do, but otherwise the only question is whether Wyc will cut the check.

[Scintan]

We're gonna have a lot of wings if this happens. I'm assuming Jaylen and Jayson are off the table.

If it happens, and if getting George doesn't involve giving up Bradley or Smart, they'll be set everywhere except center.

They've got Zizic and Horford. Their small ball system is wing heavy. I think they'll have to give up Bradley and probably Crowder.

Horford's not a true center (he's a 4), and Zizic is a non-entity.  This team's future center, hopefully, is coming via the next Brooklyn pick. 

[Bobshot]

this was what Kaufman said was the rumored trade package for George

https://twitter.com/AdamMKaufman/status/879778246853873665

I'm told #Celtics offer to IND for George is LAL/SAC pick from PHI, '19 MEM OR LAC pick, Crowder, $$ filler (Zeller pop name, Bradley poss).

I am unsure if this is reliable but imagine if that was the package without Bradley/Smart/Tatum/Brown

I don't see it happen, I am sure Bradley is included in this trade to make money work, but if we do retain him, man o man 4 stars, and 2 defensive minded guards that will give Cleveland a hell of a matchup. Irving will be crying in that series

Just Bradley and Crowder for George works on the trade machine. But Zeller and KO would have to be dropped along with DJackson and Mickey. Rozier and Zizic could stay, but they'll be slightly over the cap.

[rondofan1255]

Wow 12 pages! I hope this happens!

[mctyson]

Man, there is way too much talk of extending George's contract. It's really simple. Assuming we use all our cap space to sign Hayward, George isn't going to surrender money by agreeing to an extension with the Pacers and then a trade to Boston. And we're not going to give away Al Horford so we can make more cap room to give George an extension.

What can happen is that George quietly says he'll re-sign with us, using the Bird rights, or he at  least says that he's willing to consider re-signing with us, and Danny rolls the dice.

I think this is the likely scenario, if this happens at all.  I can't see Danny going completely all in with George by giving up more to extend him now.  Why not try it out one year and see what happens?

If it is something like Crowder + Zeller + 2018 LA pick + 2019 Memphis/2019 Boston, I am all for it.  Crowder will be redundant with George and Hayward, plus take away minutes from Jaylen and Jayson.

[Granath]

Trading Horford sends a signal to every FA out there that promises won't be kept by this team.

I don't think FA contracts come with any promise that the player would never be traded, at least those contracts that don't have no trade clauses.

I don't think Horford will be traded this season but depending on how things play out, it would not surprise me one bit if he is traded at some point (the point where our team starts to go young).

No, Al doesn't have a no trade clause. But there are differences between playing NBA 2K17 and the real world and this is one of them. Trading a player has real-world ramifications. Technically we could trade Al Horford but there are severe and unacceptable consequences for doing so. Does anyone reasonably think that Hayward would even bother to sign knowing that our big FA acquisition last year was being shipped out? Not a chance.

Al's contract is set to end when Jaylen Brown is due his payday. Danny has planned this quite well.

[keevsnick]

Man, there is way too much talk of extending George's contract. It's really simple. Assuming we use all our cap space to sign Hayward, George isn't going to surrender money by agreeing to an extension with the Pacers and then a trade to Boston. And we're not going to give away Al Horford so we can make more cap room to give George an extension.

What can happen is that George quietly says he'll re-sign with us, using the Bird rights, or he at  least says that he's willing to consider re-signing with us, and Danny rolls the dice.

I think this is the likely scenario, if this happens at all.  I can't see Danny going completely all in with George by giving up more to extend him now.  Why not try it out one year and see what happens?

If it is something like Crowder + Zeller + 2018 LA pick + 2019 Memphis/2019 Boston, I am all for it.  Crowder will be redundant with George and Hayward, plus take away minutes from Jaylen and Jayson.

It would be Crowder and Bradley, since Zeller has to go to open max space for Hayward.

[mctyson]

Man, there is way too much talk of extending George's contract. It's really simple. Assuming we use all our cap space to sign Hayward, George isn't going to surrender money by agreeing to an extension with the Pacers and then a trade to Boston. And we're not going to give away Al Horford so we can make more cap room to give George an extension.

What can happen is that George quietly says he'll re-sign with us, using the Bird rights, or he at  least says that he's willing to consider re-signing with us, and Danny rolls the dice.

I think this is the likely scenario, if this happens at all.  I can't see Danny going completely all in with George by giving up more to extend him now.  Why not try it out one year and see what happens?

If it is something like Crowder + Zeller + 2018 LA pick + 2019 Memphis/2019 Boston, I am all for it.  Crowder will be redundant with George and Hayward, plus take away minutes from Jaylen and Jayson.

It would be Crowder and Bradley, since Zeller has to go to open max space for Hayward.

I asked this in the other thread...why does Hayward have to be signed prior to the George trade?  Maybe this can be explained further, but can't the Celtics trade for George right now?

[keevsnick]

Man, there is way too much talk of extending George's contract. It's really simple. Assuming we use all our cap space to sign Hayward, George isn't going to surrender money by agreeing to an extension with the Pacers and then a trade to Boston. And we're not going to give away Al Horford so we can make more cap room to give George an extension.

What can happen is that George quietly says he'll re-sign with us, using the Bird rights, or he at  least says that he's willing to consider re-signing with us, and Danny rolls the dice.

I think this is the likely scenario, if this happens at all.  I can't see Danny going completely all in with George by giving up more to extend him now.  Why not try it out one year and see what happens?

If it is something like Crowder + Zeller + 2018 LA pick + 2019 Memphis/2019 Boston, I am all for it.  Crowder will be redundant with George and Hayward, plus take away minutes from Jaylen and Jayson.

It would be Crowder and Bradley, since Zeller has to go to open max space for Hayward.

I asked this in the other thread...why does Hayward have to be signed prior to the George trade?  Maybe this can be explained further, but can't the Celtics trade for George right now?

Its all about how trades work. In a trade you can bring back 125% + 100K in salary, meaning the combines 15 million of Crowder/Bradley can bring back the 19.5 million of Paul George without additional salary. That means that using cap space first and the going over the cap in a trade is a better use of cap space. You can do the trade first, but then you are "losing" that extra 4.5 million in cap space meaning you would have to give up an additional player like smart.

[MattyIce]

For what it's worth, I'm still a skeptic on this rumor.  It seems much more likely that it's something the Pacers put out there to encourage the Lakers to step up their game than this is actually sourced from the Celtics.

This is very much worth noting. It's always important to ask why a rumor leaks.

I understand the skepticism, but what does LA have left to give up (that they'd be willing to do) and how could they possibly beat whatever we could offer?

Mike

True. Celtics have the best package to offer of any team. Bradley, Crowder and whatever draft picks it takes. Don't see anybody matching that.

after what Phoenix did to us with Josh Jackson, (and even without it) I would wonder if they would offer enough to beat us out as a 3rd team facilitator for Cleveland (ryan mcdonough's revenge for the IT fleecing)?

[mctyson]

Man, there is way too much talk of extending George's contract. It's really simple. Assuming we use all our cap space to sign Hayward, George isn't going to surrender money by agreeing to an extension with the Pacers and then a trade to Boston. And we're not going to give away Al Horford so we can make more cap room to give George an extension.

What can happen is that George quietly says he'll re-sign with us, using the Bird rights, or he at  least says that he's willing to consider re-signing with us, and Danny rolls the dice.

I think this is the likely scenario, if this happens at all.  I can't see Danny going completely all in with George by giving up more to extend him now.  Why not try it out one year and see what happens?

If it is something like Crowder + Zeller + 2018 LA pick + 2019 Memphis/2019 Boston, I am all for it.  Crowder will be redundant with George and Hayward, plus take away minutes from Jaylen and Jayson.

It would be Crowder and Bradley, since Zeller has to go to open max space for Hayward.

I asked this in the other thread...why does Hayward have to be signed prior to the George trade?  Maybe this can be explained further, but can't the Celtics trade for George right now?

Its all about how trades work. In a trade you can bring back 125% + 100K in salary, meaning the combines 15 million of Crowder/Bradley can bring back the 19.5 million of Paul George without additional salary. That means that using cap space first and the going over the cap in a trade is a better use of cap space. You can do the trade first, but then you are "losing" that extra 4.5 million in cap space meaning you would have to give up an additional player like smart.

I understand the salary matching aspect which is why I bring up Zeller.  He makes as much as Avery and I would assume that the Celtics would do everything in their power to find some way to keep AB here if the goal is to compete now.  Sending him away really makes little sense, as you are just moderately upgrading at the 2 spot with Hayward.

[keevsnick]

Man, there is way too much talk of extending George's contract. It's really simple. Assuming we use all our cap space to sign Hayward, George isn't going to surrender money by agreeing to an extension with the Pacers and then a trade to Boston. And we're not going to give away Al Horford so we can make more cap room to give George an extension.

What can happen is that George quietly says he'll re-sign with us, using the Bird rights, or he at  least says that he's willing to consider re-signing with us, and Danny rolls the dice.

I think this is the likely scenario, if this happens at all.  I can't see Danny going completely all in with George by giving up more to extend him now.  Why not try it out one year and see what happens?

If it is something like Crowder + Zeller + 2018 LA pick + 2019 Memphis/2019 Boston, I am all for it.  Crowder will be redundant with George and Hayward, plus take away minutes from Jaylen and Jayson.

It would be Crowder and Bradley, since Zeller has to go to open max space for Hayward.

I asked this in the other thread...why does Hayward have to be signed prior to the George trade?  Maybe this can be explained further, but can't the Celtics trade for George right now?

Its all about how trades work. In a trade you can bring back 125% + 100K in salary, meaning the combines 15 million of Crowder/Bradley can bring back the 19.5 million of Paul George without additional salary. That means that using cap space first and the going over the cap in a trade is a better use of cap space. You can do the trade first, but then you are "losing" that extra 4.5 million in cap space meaning you would have to give up an additional player like smart.

I understand the salary matching aspect which is why I bring up Zeller.  He makes as much as Avery and I would assume that the Celtics would do everything in their power to find some way to keep AB here if the goal is to compete now.  Sending him away really makes little sense, as you are just moderately upgrading at the 2 spot with Hayward.

Okay, lets say you use Zeller as part of the package to get George. His Salary is big enough you could do it. Lets say its Crowder+Zeller. That's about 14.5 million going out, George is like 19 coming in. So that trade loses  4.5 million in cap space. Also our cap space projects include CUTTING zeller, so you lose 8 million more in cap space. That means your projected 28.5 million is down to 16. Meaning now you have to trade Bradley anyway to get Hayward and in addition have to give up Smart, Brown, Tatum or more.

[Dino Pitino]

Saw this idea on another board: Wouldn't a sign-and-trade for Hayward remove most of the situation's hairiness?