Author Topic: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs  (Read 6937 times)

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Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2017, 12:44:13 PM »

Online liam

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Defense and lack or production from anyone outside of their big 3 is why they loss. Carmelo>Love he will score when he's on the floor. Wade > anyone they have off the bench.

Two more weak defenders for The Celtics to target...

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2017, 12:48:54 PM »

Offline LilRip

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If they get bought out and sign for minimums, that would be absolutely disgusting!
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Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2017, 12:56:46 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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what bothers me about this is the continued collusion of players trying to build their own super teams and this buddy-buddy atmosphere where they place more importance on playing with each other than trying to beat each other. 

I agree it is extremely annoying! Where is the competitive spirit? What a bunch of cupcakes!

Also like to add IMO Melo is overly hated on this site and is better than many people give him credit for. Melo getting good passes for her highness would be a stronger team than the Cavs are now. Can they beat GSW? Not sure about that.

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2017, 12:58:35 PM »

Online liam

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what bothers me about this is the continued collusion of players trying to build their own super teams and this buddy-buddy atmosphere where they place more importance on playing with each other than trying to beat each other. 

I agree it is extremely annoying! Where is the competitive spirit? What a bunch of cupcakes!

Also like to add IMO Melo is overly hated on this site and is better than many people give him credit for. Melo getting good passes for her highness would be a stronger team than the Cavs are now. Can they beat GSW? Not sure about that.

Still no defenders...

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2017, 01:04:01 PM »

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Players have been doing this for years.  It is nothing new.  Wade is a bit different since he has 3 titles already, but for someone like Anthony a title will do a lot on how he is ultimately viewed, especially if he makes some big plays in the Finals and gets the Cavs past the Warriors. 

The modern player just can't win, as we judge them by titles, but then get upset at them when they try to put themselves in a better position to win a title.  It is quite simply a catch-22. 
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Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2017, 01:04:05 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I would like to see the buyout system addressed. You can't have teams using other teams as farm squads that are paying your salary cap. If Wade and Lebron are getting paid 40 million next year by other teams and making the minimum from the Cavs that would really be a problem IMO. It was one thing when we were talking about guys like Troy Murphy, 35 year old Sam Cassell, 36 year-old Michael Finley or 36 year old PJ Brown joining teams at the trade deadline to maybe win a ring and provide bench depth. It seems to be a whole other animal when you are talking about guys that are near all stars, and in the case of Anthony, only 32 or so going to teams at a subsidized scale when other teams would pay more.

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2017, 01:06:50 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Maybe a sign that they have no shot at PG13?

Also, would these guys really sign for just the minimum?

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2017, 01:30:14 PM »

Offline ImShakHeIsShaq

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Lol yeah so an extra 20pts off their bench and then starting one of Melo or Wade is going to make no difference? ****

One of them makes the difference in game 3. Having both will get you a guaranteed 30pts a night without giving up any other players. That team beats the warriors! If only the Cavs had dependable bench production!! The only thing to stop them is if one (both could) won't come off the bench and injuries.


If it happens that's BS!! This is disgusting!
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Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2017, 01:41:41 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Maybe a sign that they have no shot at PG13?

Also, would these guys really sign for just the minimum?

Depends how much of a buyout they get.

I do think Wade forces a trade to Cleveland.  Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson match for salaries, and only Shumpert is owed money beyond this year, and even that is a player option.  Attach a pick to the deal and it's possible.

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2017, 01:44:55 PM »

Offline PAOBoston

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Maybe a sign that they have no shot at PG13?

Also, would these guys really sign for just the minimum?

Depends how much of a buyout they get.

I do think Wade forces a trade to Cleveland.  Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson match for salaries, and only Shumpert is owed money beyond this year, and even that is a player option.  Attach a pick to the deal and it's possible.
But why would the Bulls do that trade though?

Scratch that. They are incompetent so it might happen.

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2017, 01:51:22 PM »

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Maybe a sign that they have no shot at PG13?

Also, would these guys really sign for just the minimum?

Depends how much of a buyout they get.

I do think Wade forces a trade to Cleveland.  Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson match for salaries, and only Shumpert is owed money beyond this year, and even that is a player option.  Attach a pick to the deal and it's possible.
But why would the Bulls do that trade though?

Scratch that. They are incompetent so it might happen.
well Frye and Jefferson have both considered retiring, a trade to Chicago might just be the icing.  That would save the Bulls a ton of money and Shumpert is an alright player.  Maybe you have the Cavs throw in Felder, so they at least get a young player to look at. 
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Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2017, 02:08:29 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Maybe a sign that they have no shot at PG13?

Also, would these guys really sign for just the minimum?

Depends how much of a buyout they get.

I do think Wade forces a trade to Cleveland.  Shumpert, Frye, and Jefferson match for salaries, and only Shumpert is owed money beyond this year, and even that is a player option.  Attach a pick to the deal and it's possible.
But why would the Bulls do that trade though?

Scratch that. They are incompetent so it might happen.

If they get a 1st in 2021, why wouldn't they?  They traded Butler and are clearly going in a different direction.  Wade doesn't want to be there.  The money is less this year, and could be zero next year if Shumpert declines his option.

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2017, 02:16:08 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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I would like to see the buyout system addressed. You can't have teams using other teams as farm squads that are paying your salary cap. If Wade and Lebron are getting paid 40 million next year by other teams and making the minimum from the Cavs that would really be a problem IMO. It was one thing when we were talking about guys like Troy Murphy, 35 year old Sam Cassell, 36 year-old Michael Finley or 36 year old PJ Brown joining teams at the trade deadline to maybe win a ring and provide bench depth. It seems to be a whole other animal when you are talking about guys that are near all stars, and in the case of Anthony, only 32 or so going to teams at a subsidized scale when other teams would pay more.

You forgot washed up Stephon Marbury. Not many expected him to already have declined so much.

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2017, 02:22:36 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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Players have been doing this for years.  It is nothing new.  Wade is a bit different since he has 3 titles already, but for someone like Anthony a title will do a lot on how he is ultimately viewed, especially if he makes some big plays in the Finals and gets the Cavs past the Warriors. 

The modern player just can't win, as we judge them by titles, but then get upset at them when they try to put themselves in a better position to win a title.  It is quite simply a catch-22.

Surely you would admit this is a bit different than the kinds of players that have traditionally been bought out though right? Our buyouts over the year were Finley at 36, Cassel at 35, Troy Murphy, Shavlik Randolph, Ryan Hollins, Terrence Williams, Sasha Pavlovic, an old Stephon Marbury for his last 30 games in the league. Carmelo just turned 33 and averaged 22 points and 6 rebounds last year. He is a cut above the kinds of guys we have traditionally seen bought out and signed for the minimum right? Wade certainly fits the age profile  more at 35 and with just one or two years left. However, even he was averaging 18 points last year and was just below all-star level.

Marbury was probably the highest stats guy of any of the buyout players we got in the last 20 years and he was averaging 13 points on 41% shooting for a lousy knicks team. All the other guys weren't even in the same discussion (and to that point Marbury couldn't get more than a minimum offer after the season whereas at least half the league would pay these guys the mid-level or more.

Edit: Found a pretty recent article on this and how little impact the kinds of guys that were traditional bought out had the last 10 years. 
2009
Celtics sign Stephon Marbury
Cavaliers sign Joe Smith
Nuggets sign Jason Hart
Heat sign Luther Head
Suns sign Stromile Swift
Spurs sign Drew Gooden
2010
Blazers sign Travis Diener
Celtics sign Michael Finley
Bucks sign Jerry Stackhouse
Bobcats sign Larry Hughes
2011
Grizzlies sign Jason Williams
Knicks sign Jared Jeffries
Knicks sign Derrick Brown
Celtics sign Troy Murphy
Heat sign Mike Bibby
Bulls sign Rasual Butler
Celtics sign Sasha Pavlovic
Mavericks sign Corey Brewer
Warriors sign Al Thornton
Celtics sign Carlos Arroyo
Grizzlies sign Leon Powe
2012
Magic sign Ish Smith
Clippers sign Kenyon Martin (China)
Jazz sign DeMarre Carroll
Knicks sign J.R. Smith (China)
Spurs sign Patty Mills (China)
Nuggets sign Wilson Chandler (China)
Hornets sign Chris Johnson
Grizzlies sign Gilbert Arenas
Heat sign Ronny Turiaf
Thunder sign Derek Fisher
Celtics sign Ryan Hollins
Spurs sign Boris Diaw
2013
Heat sign Chris Andersen
Knicks sign Kenyon Martin
Thunder sign Derek Fisher
Celtics sign Terrence Williams
Hornets sign Lou Amundson
Celtics sign Shavlik Randolph (China/Puerto Rico)
Celtics sign D.J. White (China)
2014
Pacers sign Andrew Bynum
Pelicans sign Luke Babbitt (Russia)
Nets sign Jason Collins
Clippers sign Glen Davis
Grizzlies sign Beno Udrih
Wizards sign Drew Gooden
Clippers sign Danny Granger
Thunder sign Caron Butler
Bulls sign Jimmer Fredette
Knicks sign Shannon Brown
2015
Mavericks sign Amar’e Stoudemire
Cavaliers sign Kendrick Perkins
Heat sign Michael Beasley (China)
Timberwolves sign Justin Hamilton
76ers sign Glenn Robinson III
Pelicans sign Toney Douglas (China)
Nuggets sign Ian Clark

2016
Mavericks sign David Lee
Bucks sign Steve Novak
Nuggets sign JaKarr Sampson
Warriors sign Anderson Varejao
Wizards sign J.J. Hickson
Heat sign Joe Johnson
Hawks sign Kris Humphries
Raptors sign Jason Thompson
Grizzlies sign Ryan Hollins
Rockets sign Michael Beasley (China)
Thunder sign Nazr Mohammed
Pacers sign Ty Lawson
Spurs sign Andre Miller
Spurs sign Kevin Martin
Suns sign Chase Budinger
Wizards sign Marcus Thornton
Rockets sign Andrew Goudelock (China)
Clippers sign Jeff Ayres

I mean these guys are all at a MUCH different level than Anthony and Wade right now with perhaps 1 exception I am missing.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 02:29:31 PM by celticsclay »

Re: Per windhorst: Anthony and Wade want to sign with cavs
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2017, 02:30:52 PM »

Offline celticsclay

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I would like to see the buyout system addressed. You can't have teams using other teams as farm squads that are paying your salary cap. If Wade and Lebron are getting paid 40 million next year by other teams and making the minimum from the Cavs that would really be a problem IMO. It was one thing when we were talking about guys like Troy Murphy, 35 year old Sam Cassell, 36 year-old Michael Finley or 36 year old PJ Brown joining teams at the trade deadline to maybe win a ring and provide bench depth. It seems to be a whole other animal when you are talking about guys that are near all stars, and in the case of Anthony, only 32 or so going to teams at a subsidized scale when other teams would pay more.

You forgot washed up Stephon Marbury. Not many expected him to already have declined so much.

I added him to a much longer list of players in my next post. He was the best statistically of the group averaging 13 points on 41% shooting for a bad knicks team. This is roughly half the player Anthony is now and Anthony is not having a mental break down either.