Author Topic: Ainge: C's asset depth has made other teams ask for too much (in trade talks)  (Read 9547 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
So all these teams would rather get less from other teams just because Boston has more assets but won't give them all up.  It just isn't logical.

Since when are people logical?  No one wants to "lose" a trade, so it becomes easy to convince yourself to take another offer rather than lower your demands to Ainge.

Mike
that is just nonsense

Spoken like a guy who has never negotiated anything bigger than a garage sale purchase.  Look what the Kings traded Cousins for.  Look what the Bulls traded Butler for.  Look what Atlanta got for Dwight Howard just one year after signing him as a free agent.

People make bad decisions ALL THE TIME when ego and emotions get involved.  And yes, that includes Ainge.  It seems like he remembers almost giving away the store for Justise Winslow and is now being VERY careful in trade talks.

Mike
I've negotiated million dollar contracts.  Part of my job.  It is just nonsense to think a team is going to take a lesser offer because of appearances.  You can miss windows and end up with less like what happened with Cousins and Butler, but the Kings and Bulls didn't take a lesser offer to prove a point or for appearances.  At the time they made those trade, those were the best offers on the table.  The Celtics wouldn't include 3 or the BKN pick in the discussions regarding Butler.  Thus, I am pretty confident that Minnesota did in fact have the best offer on the table. 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Offline hwangjini_1

  • Kevin Garnett
  • *****************
  • Posts: 17835
  • Tommy Points: 2661
  • bammokja
Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

Exactly. People are just frustrated because we didn't make any move. Again.
Hopefully they change their tune when we get Ayton, Porter or Bamba next year.  More likely they will be silent.  If the LAL pick conveys, it looks to me like there is a 67% chance of this happening.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

One year?

Funny, people on this forum only needed a week to change their opinion. Last week Fultz was the consensus #1, "do not overthink it", now Tatum is on the same level, and everyone's glad we didn't get Fultz. How can anyone take you guys seriously with bs like that?

It's especially ridiculous considering I was all for trading down prior to the draft and had no problem passing on Fultz.
Keep labeling anyone who disagrees with the company line, though, only shows your insecurity.
caperian, you raise good points about how a board can shift its opinions from week to week. that does seem to be the nature of the beast with blogs such as this. (though not all do so)

but why the uncalled for personal attack to cap your post? i dont see where that added to your argument or created the good will needed to have a civil discussion.
I believe Gandhi is the only person who knew about real democracy — not democracy as the right to go and buy what you want, but democracy as the responsibility to be accountable to everyone around you. Democracy begins with freedom from hunger, freedom from unemployment, freedom from fear, and freedom from hatred.
- Vandana Shiva

Offline GreenEnvy

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4551
  • Tommy Points: 1031
Danny is a clown who believes his own hype but can't get **** done.

All the "prime real estate" in the world is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.

Is that so?

Bringing in an All-NBA player for pennies on the dollar?

Bringing in a multiple all-star as a free agent?

Trading (fleecing is the word most used) two Celtic legends for a plethora of excellent picks?

He even got picks for a coach leaving.

And that's just in the last few years. I won't bring up the 2008 championship he built.

Ainge usually has a plan. Just because he doesn't tell the media his plan, doesn't mean there isn't one. In 2007, I didn't get the trade for Ray Allen. Still a great player, but with Big Al, Rondo, West, Green, and the #5 pick, maybe it was time to build for the future, with or without Pierce. Then the KG trade happened and everything made perfect sense.

Let's actually wait until free agency begins before bashing him.
CELTICS 2024

Offline Eja117

  • NCE
  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19274
  • Tommy Points: 1254
Danny is a clown who believes his own hype but can't get **** done.

All the "prime real estate" in the world is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
Got us to the #1 seed and we're still getting better.

Offline fairweatherfan

  • Johnny Most
  • ********************
  • Posts: 20738
  • Tommy Points: 2365
  • Be the posts you wish to see in the world.
Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

Exactly. People are just frustrated because we didn't make any move. Again.
Hopefully they change their tune when we get Ayton, Porter or Bamba next year.  More likely they will be silent.  If the LAL pick conveys, it looks to me like there is a 67% chance of this happening.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

One year?

Funny, people on this forum only needed a week to change their opinion. Last week Fultz was the consensus #1, "do not overthink it", now Tatum is on the same level, and everyone's glad we didn't get Fultz. How can anyone take you guys seriously with bs like that?

It's especially ridiculous considering I was all for trading down prior to the draft and had no problem passing on Fultz.
Keep labeling anyone who disagrees with the company line, though, only shows your insecurity.

A lot of this kind of confusion can be cleared up by realizing "the blog" is hundreds of posters with a wide array of opinions rather than just one dude with a bunch of alt accounts who keeps contradicting himself.

Offline CoachBo

  • NCE
  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6069
  • Tommy Points: 336
While I have no real problem with the events leading to the Tatum pick - I wasn't enamored with Fultz - I find the asset depth argument almost Trump-like in its laughable vapidity.

I'm not sure whether Grousbeck is pinching pennies again or this is Ainge's ego at work again, fed by the battalion of excuse-makers he has in the fan base, but until I see a move to improve this club on the floor, rather than the hoarding of teen-age projects, I am going to continue to dismiss absurdities such as this ridiculous asset depth statement of his.
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
In a negotiation, you make a demand based on what you think the other person has the ability to pay.

So of course people try to ask the Celts for more.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline the TRUTH

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 472
  • Tommy Points: 77
In a negotiation, you make a demand based on what you think the other person has the ability to pay.

So of course people try to ask the Celts for more.

Exactly. Also, these negotiations don't happen in a vacuum. Opposing GM's are well aware of Danny's history of winning - and winning by a wide margin - in a lot of trades. The last thing a GM wants to do is be added to that list, as that's what gets you fired. When you couple that dynamic with the Celtics having the proverbial deepest pockets in the league, I do think there's something to this.

Offline Fan from VT

  • NCE
  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4205
  • Tommy Points: 777
Ideally, it would be about getting the best return for your assets. But as others have said, these negotiations do not happen in a vacuum and involve real people; there is simething to negotiating with someone willing to generously give up their best asstes vs some "only" offering their 3rd best asset. The latter may feel insulting even if objectively better

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
In a negotiation, you make a demand based on what you think the other person has the ability to pay.

So of course people try to ask the Celts for more.

Bingo ....nailed it.  ..."thats 90"%

the rest is personal jealousy, hate of Boston success and Danny winning too much


Offline MBunge

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4661
  • Tommy Points: 471
So all these teams would rather get less from other teams just because Boston has more assets but won't give them all up.  It just isn't logical.

Since when are people logical?  No one wants to "lose" a trade, so it becomes easy to convince yourself to take another offer rather than lower your demands to Ainge.

Mike
that is just nonsense

Spoken like a guy who has never negotiated anything bigger than a garage sale purchase.  Look what the Kings traded Cousins for.  Look what the Bulls traded Butler for.  Look what Atlanta got for Dwight Howard just one year after signing him as a free agent.

People make bad decisions ALL THE TIME when ego and emotions get involved.  And yes, that includes Ainge.  It seems like he remembers almost giving away the store for Justise Winslow and is now being VERY careful in trade talks.

Mike
I've negotiated million dollar contracts.  Part of my job.  It is just nonsense to think a team is going to take a lesser offer because of appearances.  You can miss windows and end up with less like what happened with Cousins and Butler, but the Kings and Bulls didn't take a lesser offer to prove a point or for appearances.  At the time they made those trade, those were the best offers on the table.  The Celtics wouldn't include 3 or the BKN pick in the discussions regarding Butler.  Thus, I am pretty confident that Minnesota did in fact have the best offer on the table.

1.  Neither you nor I actually know anything.  We don't know what Chicago asked.  We don't know what Danny offered.  Someone who actually negotiated million dollar contracts would understand how foolish it is to speak with certainties when you don't actually know what's going on.

2.  Someone who actually negotiated million dollar contracts would also understand that different people make different judgments.  When presented with multiple offers, they will evaluate them differently and come to to different conclusions about which is best, and some people are better at it than others.  What were the other offers for Butler?  You don't know.  Ainge has said Chicago never engaged him on Butler this time around?  Why not?  I don't know.

3.  Ainge could have put Smart, Olynk, Bradley, the LA/Sac/Philly pick and another non-Brooklyn future first on the table for Butler.  While Levine might have a higher ceiling, he's coming off and ACL injury, Bradley is clearly better right now, Smart is better than Dunn, Olynyk already is what you hope Markanen becomes and they get two future firsts AND keep the 16 this year.  But they apparently didn't even try and ask Boston for that better deal.  Why?  Perhaps because their egos wouldn't let them accept getting far less from Ainge than they'd been asking for over the last two years.

4.  And, of course, Chicago had Butler under contract for two more years, so they didn't need to take any deal for him right now.  If Ainge misses on Hayward or PG13 but does get Griffin, suddenly Butler is much, much more attractive to Boston.

I would have thought our last Presidential election destroyed anyone's delusion that we live in a rational universe where rational people make rational choices, but I guess I was wrong.

Mike

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
In a negotiation, you make a demand based on what you think the other person has the ability to pay.

So of course people try to ask the Celts for more.

Asking for something and expecting it aren't the same.  You still have to take the best offer, whatever that is, from who ever is offering it, even if it is less than someone could pay.

Offline KGs Knee

  • Frank Ramsey
  • ************
  • Posts: 12749
  • Tommy Points: 1544
Ideally, it would be about getting the best return for your assets. But as others have said, these negotiations do not happen in a vacuum and involve real people; there is simething to negotiating with someone willing to generously give up their best asstes vs some "only" offering their 3rd best asset. The latter may feel insulting even if objectively better

Yeah, and people that negotiate that way usually end up losing out.  It's not a smart way to do business.

Offline PhoSita

  • NCE
  • Robert Parish
  • *********************
  • Posts: 21835
  • Tommy Points: 2182
In a negotiation, you make a demand based on what you think the other person has the ability to pay.

So of course people try to ask the Celts for more.

Asking for something and expecting it aren't the same.  You still have to take the best offer, whatever that is, from who ever is offering it, even if it is less than someone could pay.

Absolutely, but the point is that negotiations are always going to start at a higher ask when the Celts are involved and that's why we get all these leaks saying the Celtics don't want to part with their assets.
You’ll have to excuse my lengthiness—the reason I dread writing letters is because I am so apt to get to slinging wisdom & forget to let up. Thus much precious time is lost.
- Mark Twain

Offline mctyson

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
  • Tommy Points: 372
Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.

Why do you think you know more about these two players than the entire Celtics front office?