Author Topic: Ainge: C's asset depth has made other teams ask for too much (in trade talks)  (Read 9551 times)

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Offline G-Bones

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Tatum showed up big in the second half of last season. Glad we took him instead of the guy competing against weaker competition.   
Ainge knows what he is doing.  He didn't acquire all the Brooklyn picks just to give them away to lazy Phil.

Offline Casperian

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

Exactly. People are just frustrated because we didn't make any move. Again.
Hopefully they change their tune when we get Ayton, Porter or Bamba next year.  More likely they will be silent.  If the LAL pick conveys, it looks to me like there is a 67% chance of this happening.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

One year?

Funny, people on this forum only needed a week to change their opinion. Last week Fultz was the consensus #1, "do not overthink it", now Tatum is on the same level, and everyone's glad we didn't get Fultz. How can anyone take you guys seriously with bs like that?

It's especially ridiculous considering I was all for trading down prior to the draft and had no problem passing on Fultz.
Keep labeling anyone who disagrees with the company line, though, only shows your insecurity.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Offline Chris22

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

Exactly. People are just frustrated because we didn't make any move. Again.
Hopefully they change their tune when we get Ayton, Porter or Bamba next year.  More likely they will be silent.  If the LAL pick conveys, it looks to me like there is a 67% chance of this happening.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

One year?

Funny, people on this forum only needed a week to change their opinion. Last week Fultz was the consensus #1, "do not overthink it", now Tatum is on the same level, and everyone's glad we didn't get Fultz. How can anyone take you guys seriously with bs like that?

It's especially ridiculous considering I was all for trading down prior to the draft and had no problem passing on Fultz.
Keep labeling anyone who disagrees with the company line, though, only shows your insecurity.

I would still have taken Fultz.
Generational point guard.

Offline Casperian

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

You're right, I don't rate him highly, but there are more reasons why this Tatum pick will not work out.
Tell me, what's his role on the team? Scorer on the second unit? When we're trying to win games in February and March, you think we should be relying on a 19-year-old's iso game for 12-18 minutes per game? You think Stevens will do that?

Me neither, which means he will probably play, but not necessarily with the ball in his hands as much as he needs. Thing is, shot creation is one of the few skills which need playing time and experience to get better, and not just experience as an also-ran, but experience with the ball in your hands. That's not something you can simply learn in the gym.

We will either jeopardize our win/loss record by relying too much on a 19yo, or gimping the development of the kid in the one skill Danny stated we drafted him for, shot creation (why did we pick for need, anyway? we had the #1 pick, for crying out loud!). This has no chance of working out for us. Danny picked a guy for need who will not address any of our needs next year.

And even if everything works out, and Tatum reaches his best-case scenario, anyone who truly believes he has the stuff to one day be a #1 option on a championship contender is kidding themselves. Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, that's the level he has to reach. Not a snowball's chance in hell. He simply doesn't have the skills you can't teach to ever reach that level.
In the summer of 2017, I predicted this team would not win a championship for the next 10 years.

3 down, 7 to go.

Offline BitterJim

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

You're right, I don't rate him highly, but there are more reasons why this Tatum pick will not work out.
Tell me, what's his role on the team? Scorer on the second unit? When we're trying to win games in February and March, you think we should be relying on a 19-year-old's iso game for 12-18 minutes per game? You think Stevens will do that?

Me neither, which means he will probably play, but not necessarily with the ball in his hands as much as he needs. Thing is, shot creation is one of the few skills which need playing time and experience to get better, and not just experience as an also-ran, but experience with the ball in your hands. That's not something you can simply learn in the gym.

We will either jeopardize our win/loss record by relying too much on a 19yo, or gimping the development of the kid in the one skill Danny stated we drafted him for, shot creation (why did we pick for need, anyway? we had the #1 pick, for crying out loud!). This has no chance of working out for us. Danny picked a guy for need who will not address any of our needs next year.

And even if everything works out, and Tatum reaches his best-case scenario, anyone who truly believes he has the stuff to one day be a #1 option on a championship contender is kidding themselves. Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, that's the level he has to reach. Not a snowball's chance in hell. He simply doesn't have the skills you can't teach to ever reach that level.

Replace "Tatum" with "Fultz" and this all still applies.
I'm bitter.

Offline BitterJim

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

Exactly. People are just frustrated because we didn't make any move. Again.
Hopefully they change their tune when we get Ayton, Porter or Bamba next year.  More likely they will be silent.  If the LAL pick conveys, it looks to me like there is a 67% chance of this happening.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

One year?

Funny, people on this forum only needed a week to change their opinion. Last week Fultz was the consensus #1, "do not overthink it", now Tatum is on the same level, and everyone's glad we didn't get Fultz. How can anyone take you guys seriously with bs like that?

It's especially ridiculous considering I was all for trading down prior to the draft and had no problem passing on Fultz.
Keep labeling anyone who disagrees with the company line, though, only shows your insecurity.

And what does labeling anyone who disagrees with you as "just toeing the company line" (as if that's the only reason they could POSSINLY disagree with you) show?
I'm bitter.

Offline MBunge

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

You're right, I don't rate him highly, but there are more reasons why this Tatum pick will not work out.
Tell me, what's his role on the team? Scorer on the second unit? When we're trying to win games in February and March, you think we should be relying on a 19-year-old's iso game for 12-18 minutes per game? You think Stevens will do that?

Me neither, which means he will probably play, but not necessarily with the ball in his hands as much as he needs. Thing is, shot creation is one of the few skills which need playing time and experience to get better, and not just experience as an also-ran, but experience with the ball in your hands. That's not something you can simply learn in the gym.

We will either jeopardize our win/loss record by relying too much on a 19yo, or gimping the development of the kid in the one skill Danny stated we drafted him for, shot creation (why did we pick for need, anyway? we had the #1 pick, for crying out loud!). This has no chance of working out for us. Danny picked a guy for need who will not address any of our needs next year.

And even if everything works out, and Tatum reaches his best-case scenario, anyone who truly believes he has the stuff to one day be a #1 option on a championship contender is kidding themselves. Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, that's the level he has to reach. Not a snowball's chance in hell. He simply doesn't have the skills you can't teach to ever reach that level.

Replace "Tatum" with "Fultz" and this all still applies.

It applies even more to Jackson, whose offensive skills are unanimously seen as far behind Tatum.

Mike

Offline MBunge

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Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, that's the level he has to reach. Not a snowball's chance in hell. He simply doesn't have the skills you can't teach to ever reach that level.

Tatum's production as a freshman was roughly equivalent to Harden's and his numbers were better than Westbrook's were as a sophomore.  Fultz's numbers are closer to Durant's, but he was playing on a horrible team and good stats on a bad team have fooled a lot of GMs.

Now, Fultz could be a Hall of Famer and Tatum could be a bust but let's at least be honest and accurate.

Mike

Online Moranis

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So all these teams would rather get less from other teams just because Boston has more assets but won't give them all up.  It just isn't logical.

Since when are people logical?  No one wants to "lose" a trade, so it becomes easy to convince yourself to take another offer rather than lower your demands to Ainge.

Mike
that is just nonsense
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Offline Surferdad

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

Exactly. People are just frustrated because we didn't make any move. Again.
Hopefully they change their tune when we get Ayton, Porter or Bamba next year.  More likely they will be silent.  If the LAL pick conveys, it looks to me like there is a 67% chance of this happening.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2018mock_draft

One year?

Funny, people on this forum only needed a week to change their opinion. Last week Fultz was the consensus #1, "do not overthink it", now Tatum is on the same level, and everyone's glad we didn't get Fultz. How can anyone take you guys seriously with bs like that?

It's especially ridiculous considering I was all for trading down prior to the draft and had no problem passing on Fultz.
Keep labeling anyone who disagrees with the company line, though, only shows your insecurity.
First of all, don't lump everyone on this board together.  Just because we agree with the Philly trade doesn't mean we changed our tune and originally wanted Fultz.

Secondly, we have new information now.  That information is what ACTUALLY happened, that Ainge took Tatum and said there was not much difference basketball-wise in the top 4-5 picks.  He finally revealed his reasoning.  Who am I to disagree?  Ainge has much more information than any of us.  Call that "towing the company line", if you like, but I call it adjusting based on new information, rather than being stubborn for the sake of holding a previous position which was actually incorrect.

Offline footey

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype but can't get **** done.

All the "prime real estate" in the world is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.

Needs anger management classes. Call your buddy Josh Jackson to schedule.

Offline footey

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

You're right, I don't rate him highly, but there are more reasons why this Tatum pick will not work out.
Tell me, what's his role on the team? Scorer on the second unit? When we're trying to win games in February and March, you think we should be relying on a 19-year-old's iso game for 12-18 minutes per game? You think Stevens will do that?

Me neither, which means he will probably play, but not necessarily with the ball in his hands as much as he needs. Thing is, shot creation is one of the few skills which need playing time and experience to get better, and not just experience as an also-ran, but experience with the ball in your hands. That's not something you can simply learn in the gym.

We will either jeopardize our win/loss record by relying too much on a 19yo, or gimping the development of the kid in the one skill Danny stated we drafted him for, shot creation (why did we pick for need, anyway? we had the #1 pick, for crying out loud!). This has no chance of working out for us. Danny picked a guy for need who will not address any of our needs next year.

And even if everything works out, and Tatum reaches his best-case scenario, anyone who truly believes he has the stuff to one day be a #1 option on a championship contender is kidding themselves. Lebron, Durant, Westbrook, Harden, that's the level he has to reach. Not a snowball's chance in hell. He simply doesn't have the skills you can't teach to ever reach that level.

Replace "Tatum" with "Fultz" and this all still applies.

It applies even more to Jackson, whose offensive skills are unanimously seen as far behind Tatum.

Mike

In fairness, I think Jackson would be able to contribute more minutes right away. Agree with Casperian that Tatum's role as a scorer will take time to develop.

Offline MBunge

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So all these teams would rather get less from other teams just because Boston has more assets but won't give them all up.  It just isn't logical.

Since when are people logical?  No one wants to "lose" a trade, so it becomes easy to convince yourself to take another offer rather than lower your demands to Ainge.

Mike
that is just nonsense

Spoken like a guy who has never negotiated anything bigger than a garage sale purchase.  Look what the Kings traded Cousins for.  Look what the Bulls traded Butler for.  Look what Atlanta got for Dwight Howard just one year after signing him as a free agent.

People make bad decisions ALL THE TIME when ego and emotions get involved.  And yes, that includes Ainge.  It seems like he remembers almost giving away the store for Justise Winslow and is now being VERY careful in trade talks.

Mike

Offline saltlover

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Danny is a clown who believes his own hype.

All the "prime real estate" is worth nothing if you squander it like he did with our #1 pick.
I like fultz too but Tatum is just as good. Nothing was squandered.

sure buddy

That's the company line.
Just because you don't rate Tatum as highly as Fultz doesn't mean that Tatum isn't on his level

Exactly. People are just frustrated because we didn't make any move. Again.

I mean, no moves except for acquiring a really good chance at an additional top 5 pick in one of the next two drafts.

What I find interesting is there is a high correlation between those angry at Ainge for not making a trade for a star in one of the last two drafts with those who still grouse that we made the playoffs a couple of years ago before getting swept.  He's getting and keeping the high picks you all wanted, and it's still the wrong thing?

Offline wiley

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yes. Ainge is right.  It's psychology 101. 

It's the same reason that many Celtics bloggers have been offering the farm for other
team's "superstars" for a few years now.

examples:

1. Bradley, Crowder and a Brooklyn pick for Jimmy Butler
2. Same deal for Kevin Love