Pacers fans not that high on PG13, red flag?

[playdream]

https://www.indycornrows.com/2017/6/20/15841672/will-pacers-tinsley-paul-george-if-no-deal-complete-before-season

they questioned him not only as a player but as a person

granted it's kind of a bashing PG thread but you have to wonder

for one
"and THEN he broke his leg in half. and THEN he became a whiner. and THEN he became cocksure of "his game".

The irony of the Gatorade commercial where he swishes the game winning buzzer beater easily. Paul George has had 32 opportunities in the final 20 seconds of a game to either tie or take the lead. THIRTY FOUR. That’s a legit sample size, and a generous one at that because it doesn’t include his turnovers, offensive fouls, inability to get a shot off, or failure to get himself free from his defender. Would you care to guess how many he converted?
TWO. The game tying 3 pointer against the Big3 Heat that made him a household name (PS they lost that game) and a game tying jumper against Philly.

Now on to the meat. Was anybody surprised that PG didn’t make all NBA this year? I sure wasn’t. Want to start a debate whether PG would have made all NBA if they had a "all NBA 4th team"? I have him missing out to Hayward and Thompson. Fight me. Sure, I’ll put PG on "all NBA 5th team" if you’d like.
Is that what you’re fighting for? an "All NBA 5th team" talent? A guy who fans would not vote into the all star game, behind a guy who’s name literally 1 in 100 fans can pronounce or spell. It’s not even a top 25 talent (5th team * 5 players per team logic) as many more point guards were snubbed (CP3, Lillard, Kyrie, Kemba, Lowry, etc) than forwards.

BUT the media has you believing he is a top talent. a "Franchise Player". a difference maker (in a good way). a "rare two way talent" and an "elite defender"

My dudes. He ranked #37 in RPM. #42 in PER. This is the level of player he is. It’s great for sure, but it’s not "Special." The Pacers may have been screwed over by his antics in terms of trade value, but he helped us dodge a bullet of giving this kid $210 MILLION DOLLARS. His game is flashy, dunks and steals and 3s. Awesome. But where is the substance???

Prior to his injury, he was an elite defender. Since then, he is not at all. Sorry, he has length, but no more of that quickness. Combine that with his awful decision making and propensity to gamble, and you have a liability on defense. Say what? Hmm… Care to guess PG’s rank in DEFENSIVE RPM?
#TWO HUNDRED THIRTY TWO -- #232.

are you guys absorbing that? He had a NEGATIVE RPM. Teams are more likely to score when he is on the floor than when he is not. Believe it or not, losing this guy will help the defense. Our boy Myles Turner ranked in the top 30 in Defensive RPM (as well as higher in overall RPM than PG) – imagine how much better he could have been without that matador defense by PG!"

another
"I hoped and prayed Paul was just a misunderstood dude – I gave him the benefit of the doubt after the stupid Ray Rice tweet, and the bleacher report retweet… I didn’t bat an eye at his attempt at paying off a stripper 1 million dollars for an abortion in 2014, taking her to court and winning the custody battle, THEN (just last week) announcing he has impregnated this woman again… nothing like rekindling an old flame, right Paul? And maybe Paul wasn’t sleeping with employee #55’s girlfriend back in 2013-14, and maybe he was never responsible for the terrible locker room chemistry post Danny Granger…. maybe it was all just coincidence…"

[Who]

I think his best has come and gone. He will still be very good for several more years but he is not a guy I would want to be depending on as a franchise player. I don't think he has it in him.

A bit similar to post-Raptors Vince Carter.

[droopdog7]

It's not a red flag.  Fans always hate on their own players.  That's just the way it is.

[Roy H.]

Weird, fans are bashing a guy after he said he was leaving their franchise.

[csfansince60s]

I think he gives us legitimacy to challenge in the East and combined with Hayward/Griffin to challenge the Dubs.

Pacers got swept by the Cavs.....that's misleading.

They lost the 4 games by a combined 16 points. We got annihilated in 3 of the games we lost.

George was the reason they gave the Cavs all they could handle.

He lost primarily because his supporting cast was no match for Kyrie/KLove.

He just turned 27 in May.

The guy is a stud.

PG has never played with a supporting cast like he will have with us.

If we can get him, and keep him away from the Fakers>>>>DOUBLE WIN.

[KGBirdBias]

What is the connection with PG13 wanting to play with Hayward?

Is it the Indiana relationship? Team USA?

Does anyone know?

[Bobshot]

George is still a top player, and Ainge should get him. But I think he's slipped a tiny bit after that broken leg. He has gone from awesome to slightly awesome.

[chambers]

His playoff performances are enough for me to roll the dice.

Will gladly have him here if the price is right.

[Sketch5]

Funny weren't most of use like that with Allen. It's a little different, but similar. We came at with with, "we don't need him","He sucks at D" and all. I loved Allen when he was hear, one of my favorites to watch, but what he did was disgusting. And if it wasn't for him Lebron would have one less ring.

I'd tale a flyer on a guy who can score a ton, and people have pointed out that he's not super clutch during the Cavs series. Yeah, well we still have Mr. 4th quarter who's pretty fraken clutch.

[Phantom255x]

Yeah, I wondered this too. TP for the thread.

Lots of Indiana fans (even in the middle of last season) raged at PG13 because they felt he was making all these claims about the organization (not trying to win, not trying at all, etc.), but EVEN GEORGE wasn't great during that stretch, like he was disinterested and wasn't trying himself (sort of a hypocrite).

And now, he's pretty much telling Indiana, "trade me NOW or I'm not trying for you guys at all next year..", and he told them this like a few days before the draft, not a month ago, you know, when IND could have planned it better.

Now yes, the FO for Indiana should have known anyways, but still, it did kind of rub me off in the wrong way.

OH, AND George is pretty QUICK to call out his own teammates, but rarely himself after losses, as we saw in the playoffs, but even some regular season games too.

[dreamgreen]

Weird, fans are bashing a guy after he said he was leaving their franchise.

This!

[KGs Knee]

Paul George is still a legit top 10 talent. Point blank, end of discussion.

Indy fans, maybe rightfully, are upset their superstar doesn't want to be there anymore. Human nature dictates they are going to have a negative emotional reaction. Maybe there is a tiny bit of truth to the not trying hard complaint, but if that is the biggest complaint fans have against him, I'm not worried.

PG, despite the woeful overall FG%, had a fantastic series against LeBron. And this was without any other player on his team being worth squat. Myles Turner will get there eventually, but other than him, the Pacers suck.   Also worth noting, statistically speaking, PG just had his best season to date, even better than any season he had prior to the leg injury. His game hasn't fallen off at all. The team around him just sucks now.

[MasterEmile]

What is the connection with PG13 wanting to play with Hayward?

Is it the Indiana relationship? Team USA?

Does anyone know?

He sees a team with himself and Hayward , Thomas and Horford + whatever assets the Cs have left to be a top 3 team in the nba and his best chance to win a title this year.

[ThaPreacher]

https://www.indycornrows.com/2017/6/20/15841672/will-pacers-tinsley-paul-george-if-no-deal-complete-before-season

they questioned him not only as a player but as a person

granted it's kind of a bashing PG thread but you have to wonder

for one
"and THEN he broke his leg in half. and THEN he became a whiner. and THEN he became cocksure of "his game".

The irony of the Gatorade commercial where he swishes the game winning buzzer beater easily. Paul George has had 32 opportunities in the final 20 seconds of a game to either tie or take the lead. THIRTY FOUR. That’s a legit sample size, and a generous one at that because it doesn’t include his turnovers, offensive fouls, inability to get a shot off, or failure to get himself free from his defender. Would you care to guess how many he converted?
TWO. The game tying 3 pointer against the Big3 Heat that made him a household name (PS they lost that game) and a game tying jumper against Philly.

Now on to the meat. Was anybody surprised that PG didn’t make all NBA this year? I sure wasn’t. Want to start a debate whether PG would have made all NBA if they had a "all NBA 4th team"? I have him missing out to Hayward and Thompson. Fight me. Sure, I’ll put PG on "all NBA 5th team" if you’d like.
Is that what you’re fighting for? an "All NBA 5th team" talent? A guy who fans would not vote into the all star game, behind a guy who’s name literally 1 in 100 fans can pronounce or spell. It’s not even a top 25 talent (5th team * 5 players per team logic) as many more point guards were snubbed (CP3, Lillard, Kyrie, Kemba, Lowry, etc) than forwards.

BUT the media has you believing he is a top talent. a "Franchise Player". a difference maker (in a good way). a "rare two way talent" and an "elite defender"

My dudes. He ranked #37 in RPM. #42 in PER. This is the level of player he is. It’s great for sure, but it’s not "Special." The Pacers may have been screwed over by his antics in terms of trade value, but he helped us dodge a bullet of giving this kid $210 MILLION DOLLARS. His game is flashy, dunks and steals and 3s. Awesome. But where is the substance???

Prior to his injury, he was an elite defender. Since then, he is not at all. Sorry, he has length, but no more of that quickness. Combine that with his awful decision making and propensity to gamble, and you have a liability on defense. Say what? Hmm… Care to guess PG’s rank in DEFENSIVE RPM?
#TWO HUNDRED THIRTY TWO -- #232.

are you guys absorbing that? He had a NEGATIVE RPM. Teams are more likely to score when he is on the floor than when he is not. Believe it or not, losing this guy will help the defense. Our boy Myles Turner ranked in the top 30 in Defensive RPM (as well as higher in overall RPM than PG) – imagine how much better he could have been without that matador defense by PG!"

another
"I hoped and prayed Paul was just a misunderstood dude – I gave him the benefit of the doubt after the stupid Ray Rice tweet, and the bleacher report retweet… I didn’t bat an eye at his attempt at paying off a stripper 1 million dollars for an abortion in 2014, taking her to court and winning the custody battle, THEN (just last week) announcing he has impregnated this woman again… nothing like rekindling an old flame, right Paul? And maybe Paul wasn’t sleeping with employee #55’s girlfriend back in 2013-14, and maybe he was never responsible for the terrible locker room chemistry post Danny Granger…. maybe it was all just coincidence…"

This is a great post. I don't necessarily share all  of your opinion, but you clearly have some statistical evidence to back  up your  points.  It doesn't diminish Paul George's potential, however it does create a risk/reward factor to the offer Danny is willing to make.  And it helps us pass on to Brad Stevens, that perhaps PG13 shouldn't be taking the final shot in close games.  And we need to help him find a girlfriend.

[coco]

I can see PG13 behaving like Rondo.

....a player just when Nationally Televised.