Author Topic: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade  (Read 6655 times)

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Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2017, 07:59:04 PM »

Offline cltc5

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I'd rather we walk away.  We're taking too mny what if risks and before you know it we have a middle aged team still not able to beat the Cavs or warriors.  Let's just build for the future.  I think tstum is a better shooter than Jaylen.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2017, 08:01:12 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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You think Indiana is going to trade Paul George for a 19 year old rookie?

Was Tatum the only piece in the trade ? He was just the #3 pick in the draft

An offer of #3, AB and Jae(starters), Rosier, and an additional 1st is what I proposed.

Might be able to take Rosier and the additional pick out of the offer.
Yeah. I honestly think Tatum, Bradley and Crowder would be more than enough given the fact that the Pacers know they are going to lose George for absolutely nothing next summer if they don't trade him between now and then.
That is a gross overpay. Crowder/Bradley and then non Brooklyn picks. It shouldn't take much more than that considering what Butler ended up going for. Highly unlikely they throw in Tatum too.
agreed.  2 starters and a first rounder is not cheap for a guy Indy is going to lose next year no matter what and has been vocal about leaving wherever he's traded to for LA.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2017, 08:03:40 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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Unless he signs a 3 year extension, I'll pass.

First of all, him saying he wants to go to the Lakers was flat out dumb. I can see a player wanting to have a chance to compete for a ring. But to box himself in by mentioning LA was not to bright.

And I really have to wonder what his word is worth, after what he's doing to Indy.

 

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2017, 08:05:33 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I'm not trading brown Tatum Brooklyn '18 thomas Thomas or Horford for Paul george.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2017, 08:08:56 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
1) George is basically what Tatum would be if he maxed out. Except George is just now entering his prime just turning age 27. It would take 5 years+ for Tatum to reach George's level, if he ever does.

I think this is being extremely generous to Tatum given he has not played an NBA minute.   I forgot that people are all NBA once the lephrechaun dust touches them.


Quote
2) Jaylen is a different type of player than Hayward and George on the wing. He already knows the system, he is already very good one on one defender, and is a top athlete in the league. He fits better with George and Hayward.

I think here your being generous of his defensive prowess.  He is an athlete and possesses the athletic ability to stay in front of his man but has a long ways from being a great defender.

Quote
3) We retain all of our 2018 picks giving us the ammo to go after Anthony Davis when he eventually goes on the trade market.

Do folks really think this will happen. I am not so sure unless he gets tired of losing.

Quote
4) We have IT and Horford who are all-stars, if we build around the youth , there is no guarantee we will be able to land players as good as IT and Horford to put around them, like they would be next to Hayward and George(who we already know are all star/ all nba players just entering their prime turning 27).

Is Horford an all star now?  Though.  He was an all star, but did not make the team this year.

Remember that all these teams wanted to move up and get Jackson. I recall no one saying peeps wanted to move up and get Tatum.   I think we are keeping Tatum.   He is a high character guy who can score.   If we were going to trade we would have dealt the pick and let teams take who they wanted.   Wouldn't we traded the number one pick, too?   Move value, than moving down to get a guy we knew would be there.

So I think your logic is flawed.


Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2017, 08:18:55 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Quote
1) George is basically what Tatum would be if he maxed out. Except George is just now entering his prime just turning age 27. It would take 5 years+ for Tatum to reach George's level, if he ever does.

I think this is being extremely generous to Tatum given he has not played an NBA minute.   I forgot that people are all NBA once the lephrechaun dust touches them.


Quote
2) Jaylen is a different type of player than Hayward and George on the wing. He already knows the system, he is already very good one on one defender, and is a top athlete in the league. He fits better with George and Hayward.

I think here your being generous of his defensive prowess.  He is an athlete and possesses the athletic ability to stay in front of his man but has a long ways from being a great defender.

Quote
3) We retain all of our 2018 picks giving us the ammo to go after Anthony Davis when he eventually goes on the trade market.

Do folks really think this will happen. I am not so sure unless he gets tired of losing.

Quote
4) We have IT and Horford who are all-stars, if we build around the youth , there is no guarantee we will be able to land players as good as IT and Horford to put around them, like they would be next to Hayward and George(who we already know are all star/ all nba players just entering their prime turning 27).

Is Horford an all star now?  Though.  He was an all star, but did not make the team this year.

Remember that all these teams wanted to move up and get Jackson. I recall no one saying peeps wanted to move up and get Tatum.   I think we are keeping Tatum.   He is a high character guy who can score.   If we were going to trade we would have dealt the pick and let teams take who they wanted.   Wouldn't we traded the number one pick, too?   Move value, than moving down to get a guy we knew would be there.

So I think your logic is flawed.
How is it "extremely generous" to say that Tatum could be at Paul george level in 5+ years if he ever gets there. That's a completely reasonable statement. Jayson tatum is a really good prospect. If he maxes out it's entirely reasonable to believe he could become a Paul George level player.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2017, 08:35:57 PM »

Offline kmart12

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How is it "extremely generous" to say that Tatum could be at Paul george level in 5+ years if he ever gets there. That's a completely reasonable statement. Jayson tatum is a really good prospect. If he maxes out it's entirely reasonable to believe he could become a Paul George level player.

I don't know if I'd frame it as "extremely generous", but I think sometimes people forget that Paul George is already an All-NBA caliber player (three times so far) with four All-Star appearances. Additionally, he's made the All-Defensive team as many times as he's made the All-NBA team, and that's an incredible achievement. He was widely considered a top-5 player in the league for a short stint before getting injured and has returned to form, although maybe more like a top 10 or 15 player at just 27-years-old. For as much as I love Tatum, I think that's stretching it. He's not the athlete PG is and certainly not the defensive player either, at bare minimum.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2017, 09:00:36 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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I don't know if Tatum is enough salary in a deal for George, even with Bradley. Crowder at $6.8M and Bradley at $8.8M look to be just enough. Tatum would require a 3rd player like Rozier, and that would leave them short of guards.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2017, 09:02:13 PM »

Offline lbgreen33

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I see Tatum and Brown as our future.  Would love to keep them no matter who we get.  Just saw Danny saying that JT was to best shooter he has ever had workout, ever. Would be so cool to build a great team now and have a couple young pieces for the future. Maybe I am not being realistic but that is my dream. I watched Pierce come in as a rookie and was so fun watching his journey! I know it is harder to keep players today, but I can dream!

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2017, 09:20:17 PM »

Offline keevsnick

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1) George is basically what Tatum would be if he maxed out. Except George is just now entering his prime just turning age 27. It would take 5 years+ for Tatum to reach George's level, if he ever does.

2) Jaylen is a different type of player than Hayward and George on the wing. He already knows the system, he is already very good one on one defender, and is a top athlete in the league. He fits better with George and Hayward.

3) We retain all of our 2018 picks giving us the ammo to go after Anthony Davis when he eventually goes on the trade market.

4) We have IT and Horford who are all-stars, if we build around the youth , there is no guarantee we will be able to land players as good as IT and Horford to put around them, like they would be next to Hayward and George(who we already know are all star/ all nba players just entering their prime turning 27).

Tatum,AB, Jae, Rozier and addition non lottery pick.

IT.       Smart
Brown. Green
Hayward.
George.    Jerebko?
Horford.    Zicic

1) This kind of "young guy isn't as good as veteran" drives me crazy. Ya, of course he isn't. But he's eight years younger so if he does get as George in five years we would have 4 years of George level player as opposed to one. Even if he doesn't you could argue that 7-9 years of team control on a young starter level player is worth more than one year of Paul George.

2) Jaylen may very well be a better fit. BUT WHY NOT BOTH? If we add Hayward then Bradley and Crowder are gone to match salary for George, Jaylen becomes the starting 2 and Tatum can be the bench scorer our back ups so desperately need.

3) If Tatum comes out and has an awesome year who is to say the NOP wouldn't prefer him in a package over some nameless 2018 or 2019pick? Guys who can create their own offense are a very valuable NBA commodity.

4) TBH i'm not worried about maximizing Thomas and Horford. There are players who you absolutely go all in to maximize their primes, guys like Durant, James, Westbrook, Curry, Harden, ect. Horford is not one of those players.

Bottom line I'm not giving up a #3 pick for a guy who even with Hayward might not beet Cleveland and wouldn't beet GS. Especially because it shouldn't cost us that.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2017, 10:09:48 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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How is it "extremely generous" to say that Tatum could be at Paul george level in 5+ years if he ever gets there. That's a completely reasonable statement. Jayson tatum is a really good prospect. If he maxes out it's entirely reasonable to believe he could become a Paul George level player.

I don't know if I'd frame it as "extremely generous", but I think sometimes people forget that Paul George is already an All-NBA caliber player (three times so far) with four All-Star appearances. Additionally, he's made the All-Defensive team as many times as he's made the All-NBA team, and that's an incredible achievement. He was widely considered a top-5 player in the league for a short stint before getting injured and has returned to form, although maybe more like a top 10 or 15 player at just 27-years-old. For as much as I love Tatum, I think that's stretching it. He's not the athlete PG is and certainly not the defensive player either, at bare minimum.
Paul George was never widely seen as a "top 5 player"

He only received any MVP votes in the '14 season where he came in 9th. Same season, he made 3rd team all-NBA. Indication is that he was widely considered ~10th best player in the league. Really impressive, but not as impressive as you make it out to be.

Then he suffered a gruesome injury and has recovered admirably and led Indiana to to 7th place finishes. He was very good this season, but was outplayed by Jimmy Butler and failed to make the all-NBA team once again. Most advance metrics don't even place him in the top 30 NBA players, but that's more an indictment on those metrics than it is George.

Jayson Tatum is a top 3 pick in a "loaded" draft. To project him to be Paul George is extremely generous but to say that his absolute ceiling is that of a fringe top 10 player(Paul George) is more than reasonable.

We are talking best case scenarios.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2017, 10:18:16 PM »

Offline Denis998

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1) George is basically what Tatum would be if he maxed out. Except George is just now entering his prime just turning age 27. It would take 5 years+ for Tatum to reach George's level, if he ever does.

2) Jaylen is a different type of player than Hayward and George on the wing. He already knows the system, he is already very good one on one defender, and is a top athlete in the league. He fits better with George and Hayward.

3) We retain all of our 2018 picks giving us the ammo to go after Anthony Davis when he eventually goes on the trade market.

4) We have IT and Horford who are all-stars, if we build around the youth , there is no guarantee we will be able to land players as good as IT and Horford to put around them, like they would be next to Hayward and George(who we already know are all star/ all nba players just entering their prime turning 27).

Tatum,AB, Jae, Rozier and addition non lottery pick.

IT.       Smart
Brown. Green
Hayward.
George.    Jerebko?
Horford.    Zicic
all that for a one year rental? No way that I would do that; it would absolutely gut the team

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2017, 10:45:08 PM »

Offline timpiker

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No

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #28 on: June 24, 2017, 11:07:37 PM »

Offline kmart12

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Paul George was never widely seen as a "top 5 player"

He only received any MVP votes in the '14 season where he came in 9th. Same season, he made 3rd team all-NBA. Indication is that he was widely considered ~10th best player in the league. Really impressive, but not as impressive as you make it out to be.

Then he suffered a gruesome injury and has recovered admirably and led Indiana to to 7th place finishes. He was very good this season, but was outplayed by Jimmy Butler and failed to make the all-NBA team once again. Most advance metrics don't even place him in the top 30 NBA players, but that's more an indictment on those metrics than it is George.

Jayson Tatum is a top 3 pick in a "loaded" draft. To project him to be Paul George is extremely generous but to say that his absolute ceiling is that of a fringe top 10 player(Paul George) is more than reasonable.

We are talking best case scenarios.

Fair enough. I guess I can't envision a scenario in which a tweener with average athleticism and defensive concerns successfully pans out to be a two-way top-15 player, but I would love to be proven wrong. I'm certainly rooting for him.

Re: After thinking about it Tatum should be main chip in PG13 trade
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2017, 11:13:27 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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PG13 is too old. We want guys in their teens and early 20's for our next championship run, which starts in about 3-6 years (depending on what happens with GS).