Kaufman PG Tweets/Woj Stuff (Merged)

[PaulAllen]

http://www.csnne.com/video/rumor-celtics-position-trade-paul-george-w-new-contract


Explained on Toucher and Rich..

[e4e5sesame]

He's already Under contract for this season, why would we need cap space to sign an extension?

Because he's not signing an extension that gives him less than the max, and the most you can extend without using cap space is an extra 20%, which is about $7 million less than he'd make as a FA next summer.

It's actually even worse than that. A trade-and-extend limits the raise to 5% of the last year of the previous contract. So yeah, this is 100% a lie.

Source: 2017 CBA. Article VII, Section 7(a)(3)(iii)

[jbpats]

http://www.csnne.com/video/rumor-celtics-position-trade-paul-george-w-new-contract


Explained on Toucher and Rich..

Can somebody summarize, I can't listen to those two morons.

[jay]

http://www.csnne.com/video/rumor-celtics-position-trade-paul-george-w-new-contract


Explained on Toucher and Rich..

Can somebody summarize, I can't listen to those two morons.

Brian Robb was on, he said you want to sign Hayward first using up your max space. Then he said a trade for George was likely going to involve Bradley, Crowder to match contracts and also picks. Likely picks are the Lakers 18 and one of the 19s (Memphis or Clippers)

[jay]

Can certainly trade for him, just can't have any kind of agreement in place for an extension.

Waive all free agents, including Olynyk and Zeller. Trade Crowder and Bradley and pick(s) for George, should have enough room to sign Hayward. Might have to give someone a draft pick to take Jackson and Mickey.


The issue is Cap Space in the 2018-2019 season, assuming IT and George sign max extensions.

Horford 29mil
Jaylen 5 mil
Smart 6 mil
Rozier 3 mil
George 31 mil?
Hayward 31 mil?
IT 31 mil?
Tatum 5.5 mil
---------------------
Thats 141.5 mil for 8 players.  The salary cap was projected at 102 mil for that season and the luxury tax was projected at 124 mil. Wyc would really have to open up the checkbook. Horford would almost certainly be shopped for cap relief.

I don't think that Horford will ever be shopped, at least not until he's in the final year of his deal, unless the team falls apart. It sends a bad message to sign a FA then ship him out 2 years later. In any event, you get limited cap relief even if you trade a guy like Horford with the matching rules.

The Celtics might pay a big luxury tax for one season, but in spite of fan fantasies, paying it for a # of years isn't going to happen. Wyc Grousbeck isn't Dan Gilbert or Paul Allen.  The Cavs reportedly had a $55M cap penalty.

The reason GSW and the Spurs have been able to afford their salaries is because their teams were built on drafted players, not burning high draft picks on max veterans.

You are probably right. I was thinking maybe the trade deadline of year 3, but probably mor likely that he isnt shopped until year 4 or not at all. I just hope they are willing to pay a fat tax in both 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 because 4 max players is EXPENSIVE.

[RLewis35]

There is no way this is true.  The Celtics would need to have the cap room to give George an extension after trading for him.  They can do that without Hayward, but cannot possibly do that after signing Hayward.

100% Fake.

I am not a cap master like you are, but if we match salaries and re-sign him at the end of the season we don't have enough room? Also, this guy is a Boston media guy, so I wouldn't classify it as fake, he's hearing it from somewhere, that's why he's reporting it. That doesn't make it true though.

We can't have a 3-year extension in place at the end of next year. That's illegal.  And that's not what he's saying.  "A 3-year extension in place" means he's going to be traded and given a new contract as part of the trade, (like what we did with KG 10 years ago.)

It's fake.  Either this dude is an idiot who passes along whatever he hears without evaluating it, or he made it up himself.  I'll lower my fake rating to 99%, because it's doable if we trade Horford, and we'll be charitable and say there's a 1% chance Horford gets traded to make this thing happen.  But only 1%.

Otherwise, you could literally trade Tatum, Brown, Smart, Crowder, and Bradley and still not have the cap room to do this.  That's how impossible it is.  It's not close but difficult.  It's simply not happening, because there is no way for it to happen in the CBA.

One more question to throw at you, and it's for the sake of discussion, not trying to prove you wrong. Are you saying that DA can't talk to an agent of a prospective player acquired through a trade if Indy gives them permission?

No, I'm saying that they can't have an agreement that next year George will sign a new contract with the Celtics, because that's circumnavigating the CBA.  Having an agreement in place would essentially mean the Celtics got a lot of extra cap room that way, since they need that cap room to sign him legally.  If it was discovered the Celtics had done so, the penalties would be severe.  George's contract would be voided, he'd be prohibited from re-signing with the Celtics, and the Celtics would have draft picks taken away, probably some very good ones.  It would cost Ainge his job.

It's not a remote possibility.  That's not how Danny Ainge operates.

Semantics.  Of course they cannot have an agreement in place.  But he can have a conversation and PG - who seems to be an honest forthcoming guy based on him telling he pacers straight up there was no chance at him resigning - could say my mind and heart are not in La - if I enjoy Boston this season I would hope to sign long term.  And danny could decide that's enough for him.  Same thing happened with love and the cavs. Not an agreement but an understanding.  Requires trust and maybe too much depending on what we have to give up.

I'll trust you on the extend and trade bit - I'm no cap expert but you do seem absolutely right that there is no way to sign Hayward and extend and trade PG.

That's not semantics.  This "rumor" said a 3-year ext in place.  That's very different from "Celtics feel confident they can re-sign him."  One of them is binding, the other is not.  It's a huge difference.  Just ask the Lakers about Dwight Howard.

Semantics between what Johnnyboy was asking --- you suggested what Johnnyboy was asking would be illegal, but if Ainge talks to him and hears his plan would likely be to resign, it wouldnt.  That's all.  Agree the original rumor is wrong.

[mef730]

I thought PG13 was opposed to playing a power forward position, which he would seem to end up doing.

Mike

[GetLucky]

http://www.csnne.com/video/rumor-celtics-position-trade-paul-george-w-new-contract


Explained on Toucher and Rich..

Can somebody summarize, I can't listen to those two morons.

Brian Robb was on, he said you want to sign Hayward first using up your max space. Then he said a trade for George was likely going to involve Bradley, Crowder to match contracts and also picks. Likely picks are the Lakers 18 and one of the 19s (Memphis or Clippers)

In that case, Ainge would have traded #1 and a Memphis/Clippers pick for Jayson Tatum, Gordon Hayward, and Paul George. That's pretty darn good.

[JOMVP]

I thought PG13 was opposed to playing a power forward position, which he would seem to end up doing.

Mike

I think in the traditional sense, yes. But the NBA is euro stepoin right by traditional and into a whole new era of basketball. You are gonna soon have lineups on almost every team that consists just of wing players. Next year, Celtics will trot out a lineup at times of Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, George. Thats wings at the 1-5, crazy what the league is coming to.

[JOMVP]

I thought PG13 was opposed to playing a power forward position, which he would seem to end up doing.

Mike

I think in the traditional sense, yes. But the NBA is euro stepoin right by traditional and into a whole new era of basketball. You are gonna soon have lineups on almost every team that consists just of wing players. Next year, Celtics will trot out a lineup at times of Smart, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, George. Thats wings at the 1-5, crazy what the league is coming to.

Forgot about Semi too.

[ETNCeltics]

Don't give up that LAL pick Danny, just don't do it. You're giving up more for a guy with 1 yr left than Minnesota did for a guy with 2 yrs left.

[mqtcelticsfan]

I thought PG13 was opposed to playing a power forward position, which he would seem to end up doing.

Mike

I would think our forwards would be largely interchangeable and that PG could be talked into the role given that it wouldn't be a post position.

[Roy H.]

There is no way this is true.  The Celtics would need to have the cap room to give George an extension after trading for him.  They can do that without Hayward, but cannot possibly do that after signing Hayward.

100% Fake.

I am not a cap master like you are, but if we match salaries and re-sign him at the end of the season we don't have enough room? Also, this guy is a Boston media guy, so I wouldn't classify it as fake, he's hearing it from somewhere, that's why he's reporting it. That doesn't make it true though.

We can't have a 3-year extension in place at the end of next year. That's illegal.  And that's not what he's saying.  "A 3-year extension in place" means he's going to be traded and given a new contract as part of the trade, (like what we did with KG 10 years ago.)

It's fake.  Either this dude is an idiot who passes along whatever he hears without evaluating it, or he made it up himself.  I'll lower my fake rating to 99%, because it's doable if we trade Horford, and we'll be charitable and say there's a 1% chance Horford gets traded to make this thing happen.  But only 1%.

Otherwise, you could literally trade Tatum, Brown, Smart, Crowder, and Bradley and still not have the cap room to do this.  That's how impossible it is.  It's not close but difficult.  It's simply not happening, because there is no way for it to happen in the CBA.

One more question to throw at you, and it's for the sake of discussion, not trying to prove you wrong. Are you saying that DA can't talk to an agent of a prospective player acquired through a trade if Indy gives them permission?

No, I'm saying that they can't have an agreement that next year George will sign a new contract with the Celtics, because that's circumnavigating the CBA.  Having an agreement in place would essentially mean the Celtics got a lot of extra cap room that way, since they need that cap room to sign him legally.  If it was discovered the Celtics had done so, the penalties would be severe.  George's contract would be voided, he'd be prohibited from re-signing with the Celtics, and the Celtics would have draft picks taken away, probably some very good ones.  It would cost Ainge his job.

It's not a remote possibility.  That's not how Danny Ainge operates.

It's not precise wording, and as written can't happen. I expect this is like the Kevin Love situation, where there's a promise to re-sign. The NBA let that one go. That's assuming this isn't fictional, however.

[RIPRED]

Kaufman is one of those WEEI types on twitter, and I wouldn't take everything he says factually. He's way off base on a lot of things. We don't need him to know something serious is going on for George. Woj says it, and Roto has printed it, though they say the talks "stalled" last night before the draft.

The cap mumbo jumbo I leave to Ainge and his staff. If they are talking seriously to the Pacers, it means they have a plan.

He's affiliated with 98.5 The Sports Hub, not WEEI.

[SparzWizard]

If we got George and signed him to an extension, I'd be happy not signing another FA.  George is better than Hayward or Griffin, imo, and fits in as a 3/4 beautifully.

Horford, George, Tatum, Brown, IT would be a lot of fun, and could be a serious contender in a year or two.

Two young guys and 3 veterans. Hopefully Tatum and Brown pan out to be really good in those next couple years.