Author Topic: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)  (Read 22954 times)

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Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #90 on: June 23, 2017, 06:59:48 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Floor - Tobias Harris
Ceiling - Danny Granger

Rooftop - PG13

I like this one. I'll second it.

I think this is ridiculous.

Remember Adam Morrison, 3rd overall pick...what would people have said his "floor" was? Mike Miller? Well, he was out of the league in a couple seasons. That's what the floor is: Any player, even highly touted experienced college players with NBA ready skills can completely bust even without injuries, etc.

What if Tatum is Gerald Green with a worse jump shot? That player had to rehab his role playing career in China.


Same can be said for ceiling. SFs like Granger, PG3, Pierce, all 10 and above. Their ceilings were tremendously high! That's where Tatum's is. He is 19, great size, underrated athleticism...he could be a Carmelo clone, and if he develops that in the right culture (a la carmelo on the US national teams) that's an incredible player.


So floor: No second NBA contract.
Ceiling: Potential best player on championship team.

Adam Morrison did tear his ACL in his second season. Don't think that's what derailed his career, but if you're gonna call something ridiculous at least have all the facts.

Well, the point is multiple unexpected players flame out every draft and have flamed out from every draft position in every single way. So to say that someone's absolute imaginable bottom is a good rotation player is not accurate.
Adam Morrison was drafted at age 22 but Tatum is already more athletic, quick, and explosive as him.
At 22 Morrison had:
6'10'' wingspan
8'9'' standing reach
25.5'' no step and 30.5'' max vert
6'6.5'' w/o shoes

At only 18 Tatum was better in each of those categories except age. Morrison also had diabetes...which may have complicated his career and physical abilities.

Tatum did hurt his foot and missed the beginning of the season and all the practices/camps that lead up...which is hard to recover from, especially as a freshman, because you learn the systems.

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #91 on: June 23, 2017, 07:48:06 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Floor - Tobias Harris
Ceiling - Danny Granger

Rooftop - PG13

I like this one. I'll second it.

I think this is ridiculous.

Remember Adam Morrison, 3rd overall pick...what would people have said his "floor" was? Mike Miller? Well, he was out of the league in a couple seasons. That's what the floor is: Any player, even highly touted experienced college players with NBA ready skills can completely bust even without injuries, etc.

What if Tatum is Gerald Green with a worse jump shot? That player had to rehab his role playing career in China.


Same can be said for ceiling. SFs like Granger, PG3, Pierce, all 10 and above. Their ceilings were tremendously high! That's where Tatum's is. He is 19, great size, underrated athleticism...he could be a Carmelo clone, and if he develops that in the right culture (a la carmelo on the US national teams) that's an incredible player.


So floor: No second NBA contract.
Ceiling: Potential best player on championship team.

Adam Morrison did tear his ACL in his second season. Don't think that's what derailed his career, but if you're gonna call something ridiculous at least have all the facts.

Well, the point is multiple unexpected players flame out every draft and have flamed out from every draft position in every single way. So to say that someone's absolute imaginable bottom is a good rotation player is not accurate.
Adam Morrison was drafted at age 22 but Tatum is already more athletic, quick, and explosive as him.
At 22 Morrison had:
6'10'' wingspan
8'9'' standing reach
25.5'' no step and 30.5'' max vert
6'6.5'' w/o shoes

At only 18 Tatum was better in each of those categories except age. Morrison also had diabetes...which may have complicated his career and physical abilities.

Tatum did hurt his foot and missed the beginning of the season and all the practices/camps that lead up...which is hard to recover from, especially as a freshman, because you learn the systems.

Look, I like Tatum, have high hopes. I think he is a way better prospect than morrison, and thought morrison would be a massive bust.

That's not the point.

The point is, when you say "someone's floor," you are saying the absolute worst this player could be is XXXXX. For Morrison, people would've said his floor was a guy who could come of screens and hit threes at a high clip, with his ceiling being an elite versatile scorer. However, even that floor was too optimistic; he was out of the league in a flash.

For Steph Curry, who knew his "ceiling" was league MVP? There are players like him every so often: questions about size, athleticism, good shooter, late bloomer, tweener, more experienced college player, good results but at a lesser school...It wouldn't have been that surprising if he and Gabe Pruitt had had similar careers. Happens every single year.


So Tobias Harris, a pretty decent scorer with a role in the league after 4 years of experience, is too high a floor; he's on track to have a better career than several first round picks.

Tatum is young, good size, decent athleticism, good head on his shoulders by all accounts, good skills...so his floor is probably around Al Thornton or Adam Morrison, his ceiling is around Carmelo but a good teammate, which means his ottoman is around tobias harris, his chandelier around paul george, and his kitchen table around danny granger.

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2018, 12:26:35 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Floor   - Granger
Ceiling - Grant Hill

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Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2018, 12:30:54 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Floor: Larry Bird

Ceiling: Jesus Christ

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #94 on: May 13, 2018, 12:33:46 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Floor: 2nd ballot Hall of Fame

Ceiling: First ballot Hall of Fame. Frequent member of Team USA.

I should clarify...that's if he stays with Brad Stevens. If he leaves things change a bit
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 06:08:21 PM by eja117 »

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #95 on: May 13, 2018, 12:37:13 PM »

Offline Androslav

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Floor: Melo
Ceiling: KD
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Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #96 on: May 13, 2018, 12:39:11 PM »

Offline liam

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Floor: Larry Bird

Ceiling: Jesus Christ

That's like the same floor and ceiling.

Floor: MJ

Ceiling: Better MJ

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #97 on: May 13, 2018, 01:42:48 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Floor: Larry Bird

Ceiling: Jesus Christ

That's like the same floor and ceiling.

Floor: MJ

Ceiling: Better MJ

I dunno, JC only averaged 18ppg and 7apg. We don't know how many rebounds, but LB clearly has him beat in the scoring department.

https://www.theonion.com/christ-returns-to-nba-1819563859

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2018, 01:48:23 PM »

Offline GreenFaith1819

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Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #99 on: May 13, 2018, 02:16:26 PM »

Offline byennie

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Look, I like Tatum, have high hopes. I think he is a way better prospect than morrison, and thought morrison would be a massive bust.

That's not the point.

The point is, when you say "someone's floor," you are saying the absolute worst this player could be is XXXXX. For Morrison, people would've said his floor was a guy who could come of screens and hit threes at a high clip, with his ceiling being an elite versatile scorer. However, even that floor was too optimistic; he was out of the league in a flash.

You're being pedantic about the definition of "floor". By your logic, every player ever drafted has the same floor (out of the league). A better definition might be more like the 10% worst case scenario.

Barring freak outcomes (injury, personal breakdown, etc) I'd say Granger is a reasonable choice. Tatum is already at his level minus maybe 2 peak seasons, and 90% of the time a player like Tatum is not going to peak as a rookie.

As for ceiling, I think it approaches Durant. KD is longer than Tatum but there's a chance he develops a similarly lethal inside/outside offensive game. 25/8 on high percentages with above-average defense seems attainable.

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #100 on: May 13, 2018, 02:52:45 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Jeff Green Floor , almost turned me against nice people.   In the NBA is a cut thoat crowd on court at least .    the meek get eaten and their carcasses tossed aside for the next draftee . 

Motor and effort and kicking the other guys can down the road .....KG

He can be Santa Claus off court.  but he needs to remember once he steps,on the court , his whole attitude has to change .  NBA is about winning period .

He needs a poster of KG in his locker .


Maybe James Worthy player ceiling.

lma000, TP ;D.

Floor   - Granger
Ceiling - Grant Hill

can't miss

I don't understand the comparisons to Grant Hill, as that dude was an excellent passer, iirc, whereas Tatum is, well, more of a black hole, lol ;D.

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #101 on: May 13, 2018, 03:15:54 PM »

Offline coco

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Floor:  Paul George
Ceiling: Kevin Durant

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #102 on: May 13, 2018, 03:22:06 PM »

Offline LarBrd33

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Been saying he reminds of me rookie Durant all season.

Tatum in 12 playoff games:  18.8 points, 4.5 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.2 steals with 46%/31%/84% shooting   

Durant rookie:  20.3 points, 4.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal with 43%/29%/87% shooting

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #103 on: May 13, 2018, 03:24:44 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Been saying he reminds of me rookie Durant all season.

Tatum in 12 playoff games:  18.8 points, 4.5 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.2 steals with 46%/31%/84% shooting   

Durant rookie:  20.3 points, 4.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal with 43%/29%/87% shooting

In terms of their "style" ... they are not similar

Durant also is 6'11 with a 7'5 wingspan

Re: Floor/Ceiling For Jayson Tatum? (Challenge: Don't Use Paul Pierce)
« Reply #104 on: May 13, 2018, 03:27:47 PM »

Offline DefenseWinsChamps

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Been saying he reminds of me rookie Durant all season.

Tatum in 12 playoff games:  18.8 points, 4.5 rebounds, 3.2 assists, 1.2 steals with 46%/31%/84% shooting   

Durant rookie:  20.3 points, 4.4 rebounds, 2.4 assists, 1 steal with 43%/29%/87% shooting

In terms of their "style" ... they are not similar

Durant also is 6'11 with a 7'5 wingspan

He came into the league at 6'9''. There's some rumor already that Tatum has grown and has a longer wingspan than the one measured in high school.

We'll probably not know the measurements for sure, but I see a lot of similarities in style.