Don't think we'll get KP

[Erik]

All of our trade ideas here are not going to get KP. Knicks won't want crowder or any other non rookie deal if they're shipping KP. They wanted booker and 4 or dragan + Chriss + 4. That means the asking price for us may be 3 + brown + LAL18. I would do it, but Danny will never do that. Just because Jackson liked crowder once upon a time doesn't mean he fits over there anymore. They want to rebuild. Crowder won't do anything for them.

Another reason they're looking at the suns is because suns can absorb Noah's deal by trading for expiring contracts . We can't.

Basically they will only trade KP if it solves their Noah problem and returns 2 or 3 high tier kids. So the final price could be something like KP + Noah for Bradley Zeller  brown 3 lal18. I don't think Danny will do that.

[Granath]

(1) They're not really asking for that much. Booker is probably worth about as much as KP at this point and thus there's no way they'd also get the #4 pick. I think you're grossly overestimating the value of KP - he's not a transformative talent at this point. An offer of 3 + Brown + LAL18 is laughable. This isn't Anthony Davis we're talking about. The deals being thrown around right now are a top 4 pick and maybe a decent player. There's a reason for that (see point 4).

(2) You're also overblowing Noah's "problem". He's a deficit on their cap to be sure but it's not a deal-breaker. It's under $20m a year and he can probably move that with a late 1st to a team like Brooklyn who is swimming in cap space. I'm sure they'd like to dispose of Noah if/when they trade KP but it's not the most difficult thing to do nor is moving KP dependent upon moving Noah. That makes it sound like moving Noah is the most important thing in this deal.

(3) You failed to mention Jackson's issues with KP and vice versa. They don't seem to like each other lately. KP didn't attend his exit meeting with the Knicks this year and that really angered Jackson. He also mouthed off in the press a number of times. Then there's KPs rumored back and knee problems.

(4) Finally, you have no idea how high Jackson is on his target - Josh Jackson. Rumors have it that Jackson (the elder) is enamored with Jackson (the younger). If he truly thinks that Josh Jackson is going to be a great player, he'd happily move KP for a top 3 pick in order to get his long-term guy.

There's a reason KP is on the market and it's not because he's going to bring a massive windfall. If he were great enough to bring a windfall trade then he'd stick around because the Knicks would build around him. He's not a centerpiece player at this point and there's a lot of smoke surrounding him which is the reason rumors are flying. 

[Erik]

Don't you think if it was KP for 3 it wouldn't already be done? You are significantly undervaluing KP and overvaluing brown just like every other homer. Devin booker and KP are much better than brown. It will take a minimum of Brown + 3 and I wouldn't even hesitate. Everyone outside of this board will call it a highway robbery for us. KP is that good.

If you want to play make believe and think that 3 + brown + lal18 is the value for Davis or that booker is just a decent player or that brown will be an all star in 5 years  there are a ton of other threads here.

This is the real talk thread. Call me when brown puts up 70.

[ederson]

All of our trade ideas here are not going to get KP. Knicks won't want crowder or any other non rookie deal if they're shipping KP. They wanted booker and 4 or dragan + Chriss + 4.

I don't think they will get Booker + 4 and  Bender+Chriss+4 is imho worse than Jae+3
Phis Jackson has said his biggest mistake was  not trading for Jae so i guess he likes him ... a lot

[playdream]

Don't you think if it was KP for 3 it wouldn't already be done? You are significantly undervaluing KP and overvaluing brown just like every other homer. Devin booker and KP are much better than brown. It will take a minimum of Brown + 3 and I wouldn't even hesitate. Everyone outside of this board will call it a highway robbery for us. KP is that good.

If you want to play make believe and think that 3 + brown + lal18 is the value for Davis or that booker is just a decent player or that brown will be an all star in 5 years  there are a ton of other threads here.

This is the real talk thread. Call me when brown puts up 70.

lol are you a suns fan? cuz booker isn't worth #3 and you can call me when he made to the semifinal

[TheSundanceKid]

Rumours are starting to link together. Interest in Dennis Smith, PJax loves Crowder, Jackson being in New York but not working out with us, the love affair with Hayward even though getting to max cap space was difficult.

All of which means it probably won't happen...

But Crowder, Jackson +#3 (and maybe another good pick) for #8 and Porzingis is looking likely. Then we'd be able to bring Yab over and still have cap space for Hayward.

[mahcussmaht]

KP is Andrea Bargnani 2.0 with more health problems.  He will never be an allstar.  Josh Jackson is worth more and it will only take about a month of baskeball to realize it.

[Granath]

Don't you think if it was KP for 3 it wouldn't already be done? You are significantly undervaluing KP and overvaluing brown just like every other homer. Devin booker and KP are much better than brown. It will take a minimum of Brown + 3 and I wouldn't even hesitate. Everyone outside of this board will call it a highway robbery for us. KP is that good.

If you want to play make believe and think that 3 + brown + lal18 is the value for Davis or that booker is just a decent player or that brown will be an all star in 5 years  there are a ton of other threads here.

This is the real talk thread. Call me when brown puts up 70.

Thanks for that last sentence because you just destroyed your own argument. It wasn't KP that put up 70. It was Booker. Yet you said that it would take the #4 plus Booker to get KP. So justify it. Tell us why KP would cost a guy who put up 70 plus the #4 pick.

Go on now and let's see if you can make a reasoned and logical argument in your "real talk" thread to back up your own words. This should be fun.   

---

I love how some people get so attached to a single player. The problem with KP is that he didn't really show much growth in his game last year. His shooting improved but his rebounds and assists went down last year PER 36 and PER 100. You'd ideally like to see some growth between years 1 and 2. His splits actually went down as the year went on. Maybe that was due to injuries but you have to be careful with a guy who shows no growth in his game between his first and second year. Let's see how Erik can explain that away.

Now I like KP (assuming he passes the physical) because he offers a better version of KO. He's be a reliable 2nd option in the offense and should have a long career. But he's not a top talent and I'm concerned whether he's already hit his ceiling. He may never make an All Star game. He may never be a good defensive presence. In fact, he may just be a slightly better scoring version of someone Celtics fans should be very familiar with - Raef LaFrentz. And if that's all he's going to be then that's not someone I'd want to move the #3 pick for (never mind Brown).

[Erik]

Don't you think if it was KP for 3 it wouldn't already be done? You are significantly undervaluing KP and overvaluing brown just like every other homer. Devin booker and KP are much better than brown. It will take a minimum of Brown + 3 and I wouldn't even hesitate. Everyone outside of this board will call it a highway robbery for us. KP is that good.

If you want to play make believe and think that 3 + brown + lal18 is the value for Davis or that booker is just a decent player or that brown will be an all star in 5 years  there are a ton of other threads here.

This is the real talk thread. Call me when brown puts up 70.

Thanks for that last sentence because you just destroyed your own argument. It wasn't KP that put up 70. It was Booker. Yet you said that it would take the #4 plus Booker to get KP. So justify it. Tell us why KP would cost a guy who put up 70 plus the #4 pick.

Go on now and let's see if you can make a reasoned and logical argument in your "real talk" thread to back up your own words. This should be fun.   

---

I love how some people get so attached to a single player. The problem with KP is that he didn't really show much growth in his game last year. His shooting improved but his rebounds and assists went down last year PER 36 and PER 100. You'd ideally like to see some growth between years 1 and 2. His splits actually went down as the year went on. Maybe that was due to injuries but you have to be careful with a guy who shows no growth in his game between his first and second year. Let's see how Erik can explain that away.

Now I like KP (assuming he passes the physical) because he offers a better version of KO. He's be a reliable 2nd option in the offense and should have a long career. But he's not a top talent and I'm concerned whether he's already hit his ceiling. He may never make an All Star game. He may never be a good defensive presence. In fact, he may just be a slightly better scoring version of someone Celtics fans should be very familiar with - Raef LaFrentz. And if that's all he's going to be then that's not someone I'd want to move the #3 pick for (never mind Brown).

The reason Booker + 4 for KP is a bad deal for PHX is because they're both similarly top prospects. Why would PHX give away their young star plus a pick for another young star? It's just a lateral trade plus loss of asset for free.

Look man, I"m not going to debate whether or not KP is better than KO because it's absurd. Let's just put it this way. Jackson says KP is available and the entire league and analysts lose their [dang] mind and Jackson's phone is off the hook. It's for a reason. KP was considered untouchable. Jaylen Brown has been available since we drafted him. Where are the phone calls? You think if Danny Ainge says Brown is available for trade, people are going to come running? I like Brown. I just think that you guys are enamored with your own and can't see the obvious different in talent level that the rest of the NBA Execs and fans can clearly see.

KP is Andrea Bargnani 2.0 with more health problems.  He will never be an allstar.  Josh Jackson is worth more and it will only take about a month of baskeball to realize it.

This comment makes me think that you've never seen a Knicks game... or a Raptors game, for that matter...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2016_voting.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/allstar/NBA_2017_voting-frontcourt-eastern-conference.html

Rumours are starting to link together. Interest in Dennis Smith, PJax loves Crowder, Jackson being in New York but not working out with us, the love affair with Hayward even though getting to max cap space was difficult.

All of which means it probably won't happen...

But Crowder, Jackson +#3 (and maybe another good pick) for #8 and Porzingis is looking likely. Then we'd be able to bring Yab over and still have cap space for Hayward.

Knicks won't want Crowder anymore. Like I said, they're blowing it up if they move KP. They certianly will never trade their #8 pick in this circumstance.

Don't you think if it was KP for 3 it wouldn't already be done? You are significantly undervaluing KP and overvaluing brown just like every other homer. Devin booker and KP are much better than brown. It will take a minimum of Brown + 3 and I wouldn't even hesitate. Everyone outside of this board will call it a highway robbery for us. KP is that good.

If you want to play make believe and think that 3 + brown + lal18 is the value for Davis or that booker is just a decent player or that brown will be an all star in 5 years  there are a ton of other threads here.

This is the real talk thread. Call me when brown puts up 70.

lol are you a suns fan? cuz booker isn't worth #3 and you can call me when he made to the semifinal

Because Brown is the reason we made the Semis, right? Everyone around the league knows that Booker is the real deal. If you had to redraft the 2015 NBA draft, there is a legit argument on who goes #2. I'd take KP for sure, but if someone makes the argument that it's Booker, I wouldn't even waste a reply on it. I really don't think you understand what it takes to get 70 pts on 50% shooting. He's a legit future star.

All of our trade ideas here are not going to get KP. Knicks won't want crowder or any other non rookie deal if they're shipping KP. They wanted booker and 4 or dragan + Chriss + 4.

I don't think they will get Booker + 4 and  Bender+Chriss+4 is imho worse than Jae+3
Phis Jackson has said his biggest mistake was  not trading for Jae so i guess he likes him ... a lot

Crowder might be better than Bender+Chriss , but if they are shipping KP, they are blowing it up. That means find a way to absorb Noah and letting Melo & Rose walk. They want picks and young guys. They want to tank. Crowder will win them a few extra games for no reason.

[ederson]

Crowder might be better than Bender+Chriss , but if they are shipping KP, they are blowing it up. That means find a way to absorb Noah and letting Melo & Rose walk. They want picks and young guys. They want to tank. Crowder will win them a few extra games for no reason.

Well it makes sense ... A lot to be honest but this is Phil Jackson and looking at the mess he has made over there sense is not the best way to describe his decisions

[Surferdad]

KP is VERY possible IMO.  Phil Jackson is ripe to get fleeced by Ainge.

It hasn't happened yet because it will come down to the wire, or even after Ball gets picked at #2.  DA going for the best deal, and Jackson will cave.  Just watch.

[Granath]

The reason Booker + 4 for KP is a bad deal for PHX is because they're both similarly top prospects. Why would PHX give away their young star plus a pick for another young star? It's just a lateral trade plus loss of asset for free.

So in other words you don't even read what you wrote.

"They wanted booker and 4". That's in your original post. Then you equate the value of that deal to "3 + brown + LAL18". Thus X = Y. Then you go on in the same paragraph to say "I would do it". Now you're saying that it's a bad deal. Which is it Sonny Jim? 

Look man, I"m not going to debate whether or not KP is better than KO because it's absurd.

Yet no one claimed otherwise. Another reading comprehension failure on your part. You're not very good at this.

Let's just put it this way. Jackson says KP is available and the entire league and analysts lose their [dang] mind and Jackson's phone is off the hook. It's for a reason. KP was considered untouchable.

Yet he's not untouchable because Jackson has him on the block. Which is it?

Jaylen Brown has been available since we drafted him. Where are the phone calls? You think if Danny Ainge says Brown is available for trade, people are going to come running? I like Brown. I just think that you guys are enamored with your own and can't see the obvious different in talent level that the rest of the NBA Execs and fans can clearly see.

Source needed otherwise your point is invalid. Thanks for playing, please try again.

Maybe your takeaway from this thread is that no one is agreeing with your exorbitant pricing of KP.  Not anyone here and not any scouts or reporters out there either are quoting these kinds of deals either. Instead of shouting at the world, it's time for you to read what you're posting, what others are posting and then respond in kind rather than contradicting yourself and believing that your wild speculations are factual.

[ETNCeltics]

KP is VERY possible IMO.  Phil Jackson is ripe to get fleeced by Ainge.

It hasn't happened yet because it will come down to the wire, or even after Ball gets picked at #2.  DA going for the best deal, and Jackson will cave.  Just watch.

Or we'll get fleeced trading for a guy who is bound to have health issues.

[KGBirdBias]

BJ Armstrong is trying to get Jackson to the Knicks for PJ. Then the Knicks can trade Porzingis to the Suns at #4.

Ainge could spoil it all by taking Jackson at #3 and then hold him hostage for the Knicks.

[Granath]

BJ Armstrong is trying to get Jackson to the Knicks for PJ. Then the Knicks can trade Porzingis to the Suns at #4.

Ainge could spoil it all by taking Jackson at #3 and then hold him hostage for the Knicks.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a 3/4 swap then with Ainge picking up Miami's 2021 1st rounder from Phoenix.