Let's play the other side for an entire discussion.

[Green-18]

With all of the crazy trade rumors out there I think it would be a nice change of pace to play the other side of the fence.  I want to hear what everyone would be looking for from the Celtics if they were fans of the Knicks/Bulls/Pelicans etc.  I will start by giving my take on Jimmy Butler from the Bulls perspective.

If I were rooting for the Bulls then I would be torn on Jimmy Butler.  The idea of settling for anything less than #3 pick or Jaylen Brown just doesn't sound appealing.  The Bulls have a ton of cap space after next season and things can change rapidly if the team competes for a 3-5 seed with Butler next year.  Any trade with Boston needs to result in a potential path towards attaining a young player with All-Star potential.  I also realize that Boston will not give me Brooklyn 18 so it's not even part of my thought process. 

At the same time the current landscape of the NBA makes it impossible for the Bulls to contend in the Butler era.  This position is very difficult to be in.  What deal is reasonable if Boston doesn't give me Jaylen, #3 pick, or Brooklyn 18?  Here is my proposal to the Celtics.  I am taking into consideration the fact that Boston still needs cap space to sign a max free agent.

Chicago trades Jimmy Butler for Terry Rozier, Jae Crowder, Zizic, Boston 2018, Boston 2019, Clippers 2019, and Memphis 2019.  I thought about adding Bradley but I can't imagine that he sticks around on a bad team once he hits free agency.

Why is this deal fair for Boston from the Bulls perspective?  Boston gets Jimmy Butler without sacrificing major cap room for free agency and they keep all of their potential lottery picks for 2018/2019.  The Bulls are taking a risk that the Clippers and/or Memphis assets never materialize into lottery picks.

What do I like about the deal for the Bulls?  Terry Rozier has shown flashes and I like the idea of seeing what he can contribute as a starter for 30+ MPG.  Zizic is another young player that could end up being valuable in the future. The Bulls have their own 2018 pick and this gives them a better shot at tanking for a high lottery pick. (this might be the best part of the deal)  If Memphis and LA stay competitive for the next few years then there is an outside chance that the Bulls get their unprotected picks 3 years down the road.

[CelticsElite]

Butler wants to go to cavs according to bleacher report. Other reports say celtics not interested in trading for butler or George. So these proposals don't hold much weight

[Green-18]

Butler wants to go to cavs according to bleacher report. Other reports say celtics not interested in trading for butler or George. So these proposals don't hold much weight

I thought the most recent report from David Aldridge is that Butler wants no part of the Cavs.  He knows that LeBron will likely leave for the Lakers.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Butler wants to go to cavs according to bleacher report. Other reports say celtics not interested in trading for butler or George. So these proposals don't hold much weight

we will see

[RJ87]

If I'm Chicago, the conversation begins and ends with the #3 pick. If it's on the table, let's talk. If it's not, you're wasting my time.

[Green-18]

If I'm Chicago, the conversation begins and ends with the #3 pick. If it's on the table, let's talk. If it's not, you're wasting my time.

I agree with you right now but the downside to keeping Butler is that they are putting a lot of faith in their ability to be competitive next year.  This is my biggest fear if I am a Bulls fan.  Jimmy's value only goes down as each season passes and they would need to hit on an elite 2018 free agent.  If they can't get a top 5 draft pick this year then I can't imagine it getting any better going forward.  There is significant value in the Bulls tanking next year with a strong 2018 draft class around the corner.

[droopdog7]

So you managed to offer every disposable player and pick that we have without giving up anything we'd rather keep.  Bravo.

And if I'm Chicago, he'll no is my answer.

[OldSchoolDude]

If I'm Chicago, the conversation begins and ends with the #3 pick. If it's on the table, let's talk. If it's not, you're wasting my time.

Boston already said no to the number three straight up for Butler so if it's going to be a trade it's going to be something not involving one of our lottery picks.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-celtics-turned-down-bulls-trade-offer-of-jimmy-butler-for-no-3-pick-in-draft/amp/

[RJ87]

If I'm Chicago, the conversation begins and ends with the #3 pick. If it's on the table, let's talk. If it's not, you're wasting my time.

I agree with you right now but the downside to keeping Butler is that they are putting a lot of faith in their ability to be competitive next year.  This is my biggest fear if I am a Bulls fan.  Jimmy's value only goes down as each season passes and they would need to hit on an elite 2018 free agent.  If they can't get a top 5 draft pick this year then I can't imagine it getting any better going forward.  There is significant value in the Bulls tanking next year with a strong 2018 draft class around the corner.

If it's one thing that Chicago's management has shown, is that selling tickets is HUGELY important to them. So they either hold onto to Jimmy or they land a top flight prospect to market. Yes, there's a ton of risk to holding on to that and they might not get a top 5, but there will be teams in the mix.

[Green-18]

So you managed to offer every disposable player and pick that we have without giving up anything we'd rather keep.  Bravo.

And if I'm Chicago, he'll no is my answer.

Completely understandable.  My question to you is what will the Bulls ever get of better value for Butler?  Supposedly scouts say that Zizic would go in the top 10 this year.  Rozier has shown upside and could prove to be a valuable PG going forward.  Also, Chicago will suck without Jimmy and should score a high draft pick for 2018.  I'm not saying my deal is of equal value.  The unfortunate reality for Chicago is that a player like Butler wont command much on the trade market because of the current landscape within the NBA. 

 

[Green-18]

If I'm Chicago, the conversation begins and ends with the #3 pick. If it's on the table, let's talk. If it's not, you're wasting my time.

I agree with you right now but the downside to keeping Butler is that they are putting a lot of faith in their ability to be competitive next year.  This is my biggest fear if I am a Bulls fan.  Jimmy's value only goes down as each season passes and they would need to hit on an elite 2018 free agent.  If they can't get a top 5 draft pick this year then I can't imagine it getting any better going forward.  There is significant value in the Bulls tanking next year with a strong 2018 draft class around the corner.

If it's one thing that Chicago's management has shown, is that selling tickets is HUGELY important to them. So they either hold onto to Jimmy or they land a top flight prospect to market. Yes, there's a ton of risk to holding on to that and they might not get a top 5, but there will be teams in the mix.

Your point about tickets is easily the best counterpoint.  I agree that it's a MAJOR factor.  Aside from immediate fan interest I can't see a good reason for Chicago to keep Jimmy.  He is probably down to the last 2 or 3 prime years of his career.

[Vermont Green]

Boston already said no to the number three straight up for Butler

I can see that.  I expect that Danny believes he can get a FA like Hayward, Griffin, or Milsap without giving up anything.

It is amazing how fluid things are.  Back at the trade deadline, didn't it seem like we would trade the pick and more for Butler?  Things really change as you get closer to the draft.  The picks seem to have more perceived value.

I don't want to see a big trade; unless it is Davis or Porzingis and I doubt either of those are really on the table.  Let's make our draft picks, get incrementally better with a decent FA signing, and take another run at the east.

I feel like we could be the Thunder of a few years ago, except without having to be bad.  It is doubtful that we get someone as good as Durant but they also drafted Harden and Westbrook, all in the 2-5 range (including Durant).  We could end up with 4 picks in the 2-5 range between Brown, this year's pick, plus BKN 2018 and LAL/SAC.  I don't think we should rock that boat.

[Ory]

I'll give this a shot as the Knicks.

Note, I only kinda understand how the cap works, so I will give a few versions because I'm pretty sure one of them should be legal and they amount to the same thing.

Anthony and Pozingis for Smart, Zeller, (and either some kind of trade exception or cap space) Johnson, and Jerebko (this is where I get confused and timing matters a great deal) + #3 this year, Bos 18, Bos 19, Mem 19.

I want cap space, and Kristaps and Carmelo are being malcontents. I want a bunch of draft picks, so I can have lots of flexibilty going forward. I need a point guard and Smart can tryout for a year before we commit or move on. I want the number three to draft a future starter to replace one of my outgoing starters. I know this messes up your cap space this summer, but once Anthony's contract is over you will get it back. I need those other picks for my rebuild to get cheap bench guys and maybe another starter from Mem 19.

What do you think?

[fairweatherfan]

It is amazing how fluid things are.  Back at the trade deadline, didn't it seem like we would trade the pick and more for Butler?  Things really change as you get closer to the draft.  The picks seem to have more perceived value.

Danny had a great quote a few years back - something along the lines of "the value of a draft pick keeps increasing until the instant it's used".  He's right.

[johnnygreen]

If I'm the Knicks (and going out on a limb that person is not certifiably crazy), I'm asking Danny for the #3 pick, the Lakers 2018 pick, and Jaylen Brown in any Porzingis deal. However, due to negotiations and a phantom 20% or so discount (see Boston trading #1 pick to Philly), the deal will look more like #3, Lakers 2018 pick, and Marcus Smart. After all, the Knicks did ask Phoenix for Booker and the #4 pick, so this proposal seems to be on par.

Then again, why not try to package a bad contract with Porzingis. Carmelo is not the contact to get rid of, as he will most likely opt out after next season anyways. I want to pair Joakim Noah, so I give my team a chance to go after max free agents in the 2018-2019 season. I will back off my previous demands above and settle for the #3 pick, Jae Crowder, Terry Rozier, Tyler Zeller, and the rights to Guerschon Yabusele. (Don't know if the trade will work cap wise, but figured I throw it out there anyways).