Author Topic: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)  (Read 20246 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #120 on: June 23, 2017, 07:34:35 AM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 36776
  • Tommy Points: 2961
he needs to upgrade his winter wardrobe

to Sub freezing artic climate

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #121 on: June 23, 2017, 11:45:32 AM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I think the Boston deal to beat the MIN deal would have had to have been:

#3 (They maybe take Jackson)
Brown (or maybe Smart)
Rozier 

#3 beats #7 of course but I am not sure by how much.  Brown beats either Dunn or Lavine but Rozier would be a weaker piece.  That is a big chunk of our future right there in exchange for Butler and #16 (could have taken a chance on Giles).  Not sure where Butler gets us.  We are probably better but to what end?  This is a tough call but appears to indicate that the Celtics are prioritizing the team down the road over near term incremental improvement.
Brown is probably a better prospect than Dunn (age alone weighing in), but Lavine is by far the 2nd best player in that trade (after Butler of course).  Lavine is 21 and coming off a season when he scored 19 ppg on a team with two 23 + ppg scorers.  He is a superb scorer.  Not a good defender, but his offense alone makes him far more valuable than anyone else in that trade (at least at this point). Obviously Lavine is coming off a serious injury, but Chicago obviously thinks he will be healthy or they wouldn't have made the move to acquire him.   

3 + Brown + Rozier doesn't beat what Minnesota traded for Butler (though it might have allowed Chicago to keep 16).   
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #122 on: June 23, 2017, 01:50:57 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

  • Ed Macauley
  • ***********
  • Posts: 11226
  • Tommy Points: 860
I think the Boston deal to beat the MIN deal would have had to have been:

#3 (They maybe take Jackson)
Brown (or maybe Smart)
Rozier 

#3 beats #7 of course but I am not sure by how much.  Brown beats either Dunn or Lavine but Rozier would be a weaker piece.  That is a big chunk of our future right there in exchange for Butler and #16 (could have taken a chance on Giles).  Not sure where Butler gets us.  We are probably better but to what end?  This is a tough call but appears to indicate that the Celtics are prioritizing the team down the road over near term incremental improvement.
Brown is probably a better prospect than Dunn (age alone weighing in), but Lavine is by far the 2nd best player in that trade (after Butler of course).  Lavine is 21 and coming off a season when he scored 19 ppg on a team with two 23 + ppg scorers.  He is a superb scorer.  Not a good defender, but his offense alone makes him far more valuable than anyone else in that trade (at least at this point). Obviously Lavine is coming off a serious injury, but Chicago obviously thinks he will be healthy or they wouldn't have made the move to acquire him.   

3 + Brown + Rozier doesn't beat what Minnesota traded for Butler (though it might have allowed Chicago to keep 16).

Who knows, we are all speculating but one point was that we would not beat the Minni trade with just the #3 pick.

Think of it this way:

#3 + Rozier better than #7 Plus Dunn
Brown better than Lavine

I think my package does beat the Minni package but they are close.  My other point was would we really want to give up at least my package (and if you are right maybe more) to get Bulter.  I say no but it is all good blog discussion/debate material.

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #123 on: June 23, 2017, 02:11:36 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
I think the Boston deal to beat the MIN deal would have had to have been:

#3 (They maybe take Jackson)
Brown (or maybe Smart)
Rozier 

#3 beats #7 of course but I am not sure by how much.  Brown beats either Dunn or Lavine but Rozier would be a weaker piece.  That is a big chunk of our future right there in exchange for Butler and #16 (could have taken a chance on Giles).  Not sure where Butler gets us.  We are probably better but to what end?  This is a tough call but appears to indicate that the Celtics are prioritizing the team down the road over near term incremental improvement.
Brown is probably a better prospect than Dunn (age alone weighing in), but Lavine is by far the 2nd best player in that trade (after Butler of course).  Lavine is 21 and coming off a season when he scored 19 ppg on a team with two 23 + ppg scorers.  He is a superb scorer.  Not a good defender, but his offense alone makes him far more valuable than anyone else in that trade (at least at this point). Obviously Lavine is coming off a serious injury, but Chicago obviously thinks he will be healthy or they wouldn't have made the move to acquire him.   

3 + Brown + Rozier doesn't beat what Minnesota traded for Butler (though it might have allowed Chicago to keep 16).

Who knows, we are all speculating but one point was that we would not beat the Minni trade with just the #3 pick.

Think of it this way:

#3 + Rozier better than #7 Plus Dunn
Brown better than Lavine

I think my package does beat the Minni package but they are close.  My other point was would we really want to give up at least my package (and if you are right maybe more) to get Bulter.  I say no but it is all good blog discussion/debate material.
Brown is not better than Lavine and it isn't all that close at this point.  I'd honestly take Dunn and 7 over Rozier and 3, but that is mostly because I really don't like Rozier and think he has almost no value around the league (though his close to the season at leaves give me some hope). 
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #124 on: June 23, 2017, 02:31:05 PM »

Offline MBunge

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4661
  • Tommy Points: 471

"Brown is not better than Lavine and it isn't all that close at this point." 


Well, Lavine has been putting up stats on a horrible T-Wolves team while Jaylen fought for minutes on a team with the best record in the east with established veterans in front of him.  Who knows what Jaylen would look like if he were averaging 25 minutes a game on a team that only won 25 games?

Mike

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #125 on: June 23, 2017, 02:54:34 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533

"Brown is not better than Lavine and it isn't all that close at this point." 


Well, Lavine has been putting up stats on a horrible T-Wolves team while Jaylen fought for minutes on a team with the best record in the east with established veterans in front of him.  Who knows what Jaylen would look like if he were averaging 25 minutes a game on a team that only won 25 games?

Mike
Lavine is more efficient i.e. a better shooter.  He is a better passer.  Brown is bigger and certainly has way more potential defensively, but Brown will never be the scorer Lavine is.  And it isn't like Lavine is an old man, as he is 22. 

Now I can see why you would be concerned about the knee.  And I can see why people would believe that Brown will be the better player at their respective peaks, but right now Lavine (assuming his health) is a much better player than Brown, and it isn't that close.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #126 on: June 23, 2017, 02:57:29 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842

"Brown is not better than Lavine and it isn't all that close at this point." 


Well, Lavine has been putting up stats on a horrible T-Wolves team while Jaylen fought for minutes on a team with the best record in the east with established veterans in front of him.  Who knows what Jaylen would look like if he were averaging 25 minutes a game on a team that only won 25 games?

Mike
Lavine is more efficient i.e. a better shooter.  He is a better passer.  Brown is bigger and certainly has way more potential defensively, but Brown will never be the scorer Lavine is.  And it isn't like Lavine is an old man, as he is 22. 

Now I can see why you would be concerned about the knee.  And I can see why people would believe that Brown will be the better player at their respective peaks, but right now Lavine (assuming his health) is a much better player than Brown, and it isn't that close.
I think Levine plays stupid selfish basketball on offense and doesn't defend for ****. His injury helped Minnesota in my opinion. One of my least favorite players in the league.

Edit: that said, healthy Lavine is still better than brown right now. O just think it's kinda close I could easily see Jaylen passing him this year and never looking back. Actually I expect it.

Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #127 on: June 23, 2017, 06:24:46 PM »

Offline wiley

  • Antoine Walker
  • ****
  • Posts: 4849
  • Tommy Points: 386
Butler is re-joining the coach who used to play him 47 minutes per night every night.
Feel bad for him.

(47 only small exaggeration...)

Re: Jimmy Butler News, Rumors, & Speculation (Merged)
« Reply #128 on: June 23, 2017, 06:32:40 PM »

Offline mr. dee

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7828
  • Tommy Points: 597
Im just glad the Jimmy Butler ship has sailed. He's not just worth it to throw tons of assets.