Author Topic: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.  (Read 8519 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #45 on: June 20, 2017, 10:51:37 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2723
  • Tommy Points: 307
IMO, shooting is king. If 2 prospects are graded similarly and one is the better shooter (and you think the player is big and quick enough to get that shot), then you take him.

That's not to say everything else isn't important,  but the most important skill in the NBA right now is being able to shoot the basketball.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #46 on: June 20, 2017, 10:51:44 AM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15969
  • Tommy Points: 1834
When two players are close, you always go with the better athlete, who also has a much better BBIQ.

You have to take Jackson.

Ask yourself this: Who is more likely to hang in a game vs. Lebron's Cavs, or KD's Warriors? Tatum will be sitting on the bench waiving a towel.  Jackson will be guarding these guys. They would eat Tatum's lunch.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #47 on: June 20, 2017, 10:54:45 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
When two players are close, you always go with the better athlete, who also has a much better BBIQ.

You have to take Jackson.

Ask yourself this: Who is more likely to hang in a game vs. Lebron's Cavs, or KD's Warriors?  ;D  Jackson will be guarding these guys. They would eat Tatum's lunch.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #48 on: June 20, 2017, 10:54:50 AM »

Online celticinorlando

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28367
  • Tommy Points: 654
  • MASTER OF PANIC
He does not shoot well enough to be a SF...he is too thin to be a PF. Boston needs scoring to take the load off IT. With a top 3 pick you need to get a guy that can score. Jackson is not that guy. He is Jaylon Brown with an even worse offensive game.

I watched him quite a bit at Kansas. His shot and outside offense did not improve. He is an awful FT shooter. So what he has a "great motor". He still needs to be able to score.

Imagine Smart, Brown and Jackson on the court together. Scoring would be very tough. Jackson limits your rotations because you cannot play him with Brown.

You dont draft based on needs.... Not positional need nor scoring needs etc

Now if its very close you can add these critereas into the equation

It is too close to say if Tatum will be a better scorer. Their stats last season were pretty comparable across the board.  Except Jackson went to the FT line 40-50 more trips and Tatum had a higher FT shooting rate.

Defensively Jackson has the edge.


I disagree you don't draft based on need. Boston needs scoring and they need rebounding. Those are 2 massive holes. Jackson does not even want to play in Boston because he is worried about his PT. That says a lot. Afraid to compete and earn time.

Tatum also missed quite a bit of time to start the season...so he was a bit rusty. Jackson to me is just another guy. Another body. I just do not see how he impacts this team.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #49 on: June 20, 2017, 10:56:46 AM »

Offline footey

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15969
  • Tommy Points: 1834
He does not shoot well enough to be a SF...he is too thin to be a PF. Boston needs scoring to take the load off IT. With a top 3 pick you need to get a guy that can score. Jackson is not that guy. He is Jaylon Brown with an even worse offensive game.

I watched him quite a bit at Kansas. His shot and outside offense did not improve. He is an awful FT shooter. So what he has a "great motor". He still needs to be able to score.

Imagine Smart, Brown and Jackson on the court together. Scoring would be very tough. Jackson limits your rotations because you cannot play him with Brown.

You dont draft based on needs.... Not positional need nor scoring needs etc

Now if its very close you can add these critereas into the equation

It is too close to say if Tatum will be a better scorer. Their stats last season were pretty comparable across the board.  Except Jackson went to the FT line 40-50 more trips and Tatum had a higher FT shooting rate.

Defensively Jackson has the edge.


I disagree you don't draft based on need. Boston needs scoring and they need rebounding. Those are 2 massive holes. Jackson does not even want to play in Boston because he is worried about his PT. That says a lot. Afraid to compete and earn time.

Tatum also missed quite a bit of time to start the season...so he was a bit rusty. Jackson to me is just another guy. Another body. I just do not see how he impacts this team.

How many games have you watched Jackson play?  To say he is "just another body" suggests none.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #50 on: June 20, 2017, 10:58:15 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
He does not shoot well enough to be a SF...he is too thin to be a PF. Boston needs scoring to take the load off IT. With a top 3 pick you need to get a guy that can score. Jackson is not that guy. He is Jaylon Brown with an even worse offensive game.

I watched him quite a bit at Kansas. His shot and outside offense did not improve. He is an awful FT shooter. So what he has a "great motor". He still needs to be able to score.

Imagine Smart, Brown and Jackson on the court together. Scoring would be very tough. Jackson limits your rotations because you cannot play him with Brown.

You dont draft based on needs.... Not positional need nor scoring needs etc

Now if its very close you can add these critereas into the equation

It is too close to say if Tatum will be a better scorer. Their stats last season were pretty comparable across the board.  Except Jackson went to the FT line 40-50 more trips and Tatum had a higher FT shooting rate.

Defensively Jackson has the edge.


I disagree you don't draft based on need. Boston needs scoring and they need rebounding. Those are 2 massive holes. Jackson does not even want to play in Boston because he is worried about his PT. That says a lot. Afraid to compete and earn time.

Tatum also missed quite a bit of time to start the season...so he was a bit rusty. Jackson to me is just another guy. Another body. I just do not see how he impacts this team.

Jackson is a phenomenal rebounder. He had 13 double doubles last year.

You dont have to grab a scorer through this draft....its not mandatory

Bc we didnt have a promising looking prospect center in the lineup...danny took Fab Melo. How did that workout??

You dont skip on a player like Draymond Green for Melo

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #51 on: June 20, 2017, 10:58:47 AM »

Online celticinorlando

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28367
  • Tommy Points: 654
  • MASTER OF PANIC
When two players are close, you always go with the better athlete, who also has a much better BBIQ.

You have to take Jackson.

Ask yourself this: Who is more likely to hang in a game vs. Lebron's Cavs, or KD's Warriors? Tatum will be sitting on the bench waiving a towel.  Jackson will be guarding these guys. They would eat Tatum's lunch.

If Jackson is guarding James and KD...then Boston is screwed. Elite players will kill Jackson defensively. He can't stay with those guys nor can he handle them in the post. You are overvaluing Josh Jackson. He is another Tyrus Thomas.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #52 on: June 20, 2017, 11:00:14 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
When two players are close, you always go with the better athlete, who also has a much better BBIQ.

You have to take Jackson.

Ask yourself this: Who is more likely to hang in a game vs. Lebron's Cavs, or KD's Warriors? Tatum will be sitting on the bench waiving a towel.  Jackson will be guarding these guys. They would eat Tatum's lunch.

If Jackson is guarding James and KD...then Boston is screwed. Elite players will kill Jackson defensively. He can't stay with those guys nor can he handle them in the post. You are overvaluing Josh Jackson. He is another Tyrus Thomas.

Tyrus Thomas with a brain

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #53 on: June 20, 2017, 11:00:39 AM »

Online celticinorlando

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28367
  • Tommy Points: 654
  • MASTER OF PANIC
He does not shoot well enough to be a SF...he is too thin to be a PF. Boston needs scoring to take the load off IT. With a top 3 pick you need to get a guy that can score. Jackson is not that guy. He is Jaylon Brown with an even worse offensive game.

I watched him quite a bit at Kansas. His shot and outside offense did not improve. He is an awful FT shooter. So what he has a "great motor". He still needs to be able to score.

Imagine Smart, Brown and Jackson on the court together. Scoring would be very tough. Jackson limits your rotations because you cannot play him with Brown.

You dont draft based on needs.... Not positional need nor scoring needs etc

Now if its very close you can add these critereas into the equation

It is too close to say if Tatum will be a better scorer. Their stats last season were pretty comparable across the board.  Except Jackson went to the FT line 40-50 more trips and Tatum had a higher FT shooting rate.

Defensively Jackson has the edge.


I disagree you don't draft based on need. Boston needs scoring and they need rebounding. Those are 2 massive holes. Jackson does not even want to play in Boston because he is worried about his PT. That says a lot. Afraid to compete and earn time.

Tatum also missed quite a bit of time to start the season...so he was a bit rusty. Jackson to me is just another guy. Another body. I just do not see how he impacts this team.

How many games have you watched Jackson play?  To say he is "just another body" suggests none.

He is Tyrus Thomas. I watched at least 10 Kansas games and the guy was just a role player. A great athlete with no shot.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #54 on: June 20, 2017, 11:01:08 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
He does not shoot well enough to be a SF...he is too thin to be a PF. Boston needs scoring to take the load off IT. With a top 3 pick you need to get a guy that can score. Jackson is not that guy. He is Jaylon Brown with an even worse offensive game.

I watched him quite a bit at Kansas. His shot and outside offense did not improve. He is an awful FT shooter. So what he has a "great motor". He still needs to be able to score.

Imagine Smart, Brown and Jackson on the court together. Scoring would be very tough. Jackson limits your rotations because you cannot play him with Brown.

You dont draft based on needs.... Not positional need nor scoring needs etc

Now if its very close you can add these critereas into the equation

It is too close to say if Tatum will be a better scorer. Their stats last season were pretty comparable across the board.  Except Jackson went to the FT line 40-50 more trips and Tatum had a higher FT shooting rate.

Defensively Jackson has the edge.


I disagree you don't draft based on need. Boston needs scoring and they need rebounding. Those are 2 massive holes. Jackson does not even want to play in Boston because he is worried about his PT. That says a lot. Afraid to compete and earn time.

Tatum also missed quite a bit of time to start the season...so he was a bit rusty. Jackson to me is just another guy. Another body. I just do not see how he impacts this team.
I've been seeing this a lot and obviously there's some level of diminishing returns, but i really disagree with the idea that a player can't help you if you already have similar players.

Athletic defenders how can cover multiple positions and bring a high bball iq and compete level on both sides of the ball can always help you. It's not like you couldn't play brown and jackson next to each other.

i get preferring a scorer but if Jackson is BPA you've got to take him. The fact that you have similar guys in Smart and Brown doesn't mean you can't add another.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #55 on: June 20, 2017, 11:03:34 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
He does not shoot well enough to be a SF...he is too thin to be a PF. Boston needs scoring to take the load off IT. With a top 3 pick you need to get a guy that can score. Jackson is not that guy. He is Jaylon Brown with an even worse offensive game.

I watched him quite a bit at Kansas. His shot and outside offense did not improve. He is an awful FT shooter. So what he has a "great motor". He still needs to be able to score.

Imagine Smart, Brown and Jackson on the court together. Scoring would be very tough. Jackson limits your rotations because you cannot play him with Brown.

You dont draft based on needs.... Not positional need nor scoring needs etc

Now if its very close you can add these critereas into the equation

It is too close to say if Tatum will be a better scorer. Their stats last season were pretty comparable across the board.  Except Jackson went to the FT line 40-50 more trips and Tatum had a higher FT shooting rate.

Defensively Jackson has the edge.


I disagree you don't draft based on need. Boston needs scoring and they need rebounding. Those are 2 massive holes. Jackson does not even want to play in Boston because he is worried about his PT. That says a lot. Afraid to compete and earn time.

Tatum also missed quite a bit of time to start the season...so he was a bit rusty. Jackson to me is just another guy. Another body. I just do not see how he impacts this team.

How many games have you watched Jackson play?  To say he is "just another body" suggests none.

He is Tyrus Thomas. I watched at least 10 Kansas games and the guy was just a role player. A great athlete with no shot.
To be fair he shot higher percentages than Tatum at every level save e free throw line.

His fg% was above 50 and when he was suspended for a game the best team in the big 12 lost in the first round.

It's a bit unfair to say he was a role player at Kansas. He was really important for them.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #56 on: June 20, 2017, 11:06:02 AM »

Online celticinorlando

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28367
  • Tommy Points: 654
  • MASTER OF PANIC
When two players are close, you always go with the better athlete, who also has a much better BBIQ.

You have to take Jackson.

Ask yourself this: Who is more likely to hang in a game vs. Lebron's Cavs, or KD's Warriors? Tatum will be sitting on the bench waiving a towel.  Jackson will be guarding these guys. They would eat Tatum's lunch.

If Jackson is guarding James and KD...then Boston is screwed. Elite players will kill Jackson defensively. He can't stay with those guys nor can he handle them in the post. You are overvaluing Josh Jackson. He is another Tyrus Thomas.

Tyrus Thomas with a brain

There is nothing I or anyone else can say about Jackson to dissuade you and Footey. You two love the guy and think he can be the next great player and that is fine. I disagree. I think there are better players that fit Boston better. I do not like Jackson and will not like Jackson, even if Boston picks him. I will tolerate him.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #57 on: June 20, 2017, 11:10:37 AM »

Offline knuckleballer

  • Paul Silas
  • ******
  • Posts: 6363
  • Tommy Points: 664
When two players are close, you always go with the better athlete, who also has a much better BBIQ.

You have to take Jackson.

Ask yourself this: Who is more likely to hang in a game vs. Lebron's Cavs, or KD's Warriors? Tatum will be sitting on the bench waiving a towel.  Jackson will be guarding these guys. They would eat Tatum's lunch.



If Jackson is guarding James and KD...then Boston is screwed. Elite players will kill Jackson defensively. He can't stay with those guys nor can he handle them in the post. You are overvaluing Josh Jackson. He is another Tyrus Thomas.


I don't think he's like Tyrus Thomas.  Despite his weight, his is quite strong and plays strong.  I think he will be a very good defender at multiple positions.  Still, I prefer the potential of Tatum's offense. I won't be disappointed if Ainge drafts Jackson though.  He will be a very good player in this league.

Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #58 on: June 20, 2017, 11:15:02 AM »

Offline Tr1boy

  • Paul Pierce
  • ***************************
  • Posts: 27260
  • Tommy Points: 867
Smart will never be a good offensive player if  he cant shoot. Lacks explosiveness

Not the case with Jackson. Just look at Iguadala. Perfect example. He is a streaky shooter at best. But bc of his explosivness, iq, motor he can still get buckets


Re: Tatum is the Smokescreen. It's Jackson.
« Reply #59 on: June 20, 2017, 11:18:46 AM »

Online celticinorlando

  • John Havlicek
  • ****************************
  • Posts: 28367
  • Tommy Points: 654
  • MASTER OF PANIC
Smart will never be a good offensive player if  he cant shoot. Lacks explosiveness

Not the case with Jackson. Just look at Iguadala. Perfect example. He is a streaky shooter at best. But bc of his explosivness, iq, motor he can still get buckets

I do like Jackson's potential on defense. I just cannot get past how poor his jump shot is and how that will complicate spacing and offensive flow.

Kansas played him as a small ball PF..I do not think he can play PF in the NBA. Think he has to be a 3 and guard the 1-3.