Trying to make sense of the Fultz deal (Explanation, possibility, expectations)

[Nef-Oracle]

Tbh I didn't like this trade at first but as in everything there's always a good side and a bad side of things.

The bad side is we're helping the Sixers building a dynasty by sending them Fultz. A lineup with Fultz, Embiid, Simmons and Saric is a scary one and a super-super team for the next years to come. They have a lot of cap space to sign any Max FA and will be the team to beat if we ever dream of banner 18. There's a chance we don't get the LA pick and there's no guarantee the Sac pick will be a good one.

On the bright side we didn't get totally screwed if either the LA pick or lSacto is top 3 it's still a good deal.

Most importantly there are two prospects who can have a similar impact than Fultz when it's all said and done: Dennis Smith Jr and De'Aron Fox. Both are elite athlete, can get to the rim whenever they want, are solid defenders and playmakers. The only thing Fultz does better than them is shoot the ball as both aren't threats from behind the arc. But like they say you can't teach athleticism but you can improve your jumper.

Both will be available when we pick at 3 and if the Lakers pick Jackson to screw us (I think they will) then we'll just pick Ball and trade him to Sacto, who will love it, getting #5 and #10. At #5 we draft either one and still collect another asset at #10.

At the end of the day it end up being a good deal for us.

[Csfan1984]

I think it was a need trade. C's need size and they need cap space and they need more assets/ talent.

Size could = Jackson, Tatum or Isaac
Cap space = almost $2 million saved.
Assets/talent = another lottery projected 1st.

But Fultz I feel is the better player vs three I named above. I hope it works out for us.

[littleteapot]

Danny made the trade because he doesn't think Fultz is going to be the next Harden. If he did think he was the next Harden, he would never give him up for $2mil in cap space or for a short-term size need.

[kozlodoev]

Can we just use one dedicated draft thread and not have everyone with an opinion pop up something new with how they feel about this draft?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnFxAnbJD8A

[Yoki_IsTheName]

It really boils down to Danny not thinking that Fultz is who most draft guys think he will be. That, or he thinks there's really not a big gap in talent and potential from the rest of the field at the top 4.

I hope he's freaking right. We could be passing on a James Harden clone here for a chance to get either Danny Granger or shorter armed Andre Iguodala who can't shoot, or trade the pick for a player who won't help us win GSW anyway.

He better hope that Fultz doesn't light the NBA up in year one or this is going to blow in his face.

[crimson_stallion]

Guys, I have a bit of a curveball theory here.

If you remeber not too long ago,  a report came out saying that one team in the top 3 had given Josh Jackson a promise that they'd draft him if he fell to them.

Now let's say that rumor was true...we already know this team wasn't Boston,  since Jackson never met with the Celtics.  That means it must be either Philly or the Lakers who have this promise.

The Lakers just gave Jackson a second workout and word is that it didn't go well AT ALL.  Now, if the Lakers already promised Jackson that they'd take him at #2, why bother even having a second workout?  It doesn't fit, so i dont imagine it's the Lakers.

That leaves Philly as the only team who could have likely made that promise,  right?   Now suddenly, after the world starts taking about Boston's interest in Jackson, Philly agrees to give up draft picks to move up in the draft? Could it be that they are moving up,  not to take Fultz, but to honour their promise to Jackson?

Could it be that Boston liked Fultz, Tatum and Jackson equally, with Jackson just slightly ahead,  but happy to go wider way?

They tell Philly that they are leaving towards taking Jackson,  Philly folds under the pressure,  gives in and trades up.

Now worst case Lakers take Fultz (very possible),  in which case Boston takes Tatum. 

Or best case,  Lakers select Ball and Boston takes Fultz.

IF Boston knows for sure that Philly is taking Jackson,  then that's basically a win-win for Boston.  They pick up an extra pick or two AND still get one of the two guys they wanted regardless, and saves a couple of million on the rookie contract...which helps them to after a max free agent.

If the rumours about Jackson getting a top 3 promise are true,  then this makes a lot of sense.

We all immediately assume that Philly is trading up to take Fultz, since so many people have him as the consensus #1 pick.   But if Philly love Jackson and really did make a draft promise to him,  and if everybody is convinced that the Lakers will draft Ball, then it would make total sense for Philly and Boston to make this trade - Philly gets Jackson, Lakers get Ball, Boston gets Fultz - everything works out as planned,  everybody gets the guy they want,  and Boston gets an extra pick or two out of it as assurance that evening works to plan.

[chiken Green]

This would be awesome but No.. Phili is desperate for a point guard.  Have been for years. No way they pass up Fultz.

[dreamgreen]

I think it was a need trade. C's need size and they need cap space and they need more assets/ talent.

Size could = Jackson, Tatum or Isaac
Cap space = almost $2 million saved.
Assets/talent = another lottery projected 1st.

But Fultz I feel is the better player vs three I named above. I hope it works out for us.

We need size that is agreed. But size IMO is a 4/5 of the 3 you mentioned only Isaac could fit that. We could have/should have asked for one of Philly bigs. Danny has to like one of them right?

[Nef-Oracle]

This would be awesome but No.. Phili is desperate for a point guard.  Have been for years. No way they pass up Fultz.

Never said Philly would pass on Fultz,  he's the most complete player in this year's draft.

[Nef-Oracle]

I think it was a need trade. C's need size and they need cap space and they need more assets/ talent.

Size could = Jackson, Tatum or Isaac
Cap space = almost $2 million saved.
Assets/talent = another lottery projected 1st.

But Fultz I feel is the better player vs three I named above. I hope it works out for us.

We need size that is agreed. But size IMO is a 4/5 of the 3 you mentioned only Isaac could fit that. We could have/should have asked for one of Philly bigs. Danny has to like one of them right?

Was surprised he didn't even ask for Okafor.  We have Zizic but could've had Okafor too

[td450]

There have always been three lines of action to expect this summer:

The draft
The free agency
Trades

Trading down gives us an extra $1M to sign a free agent. Getting full max space cleared was a major pain point. Let's see what happens.

If Ainge signs Griffin, gets Butler for the #3, Crowder and some lesser assets, has the money to keep Bradley, and ends up with the #3 pick next year, we should all be impressed.

Of course, if we  don't sign a free agent, make no trade, grab Jackson and only end up with the 14th pick in 2019, we should all be p---ed off.

We'll see soon enough.

[greece66]

Can we just use one dedicated draft thread and not have everyone with an opinion pop up something new with how they feel about this draft?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnFxAnbJD8A

^

Merging threads would be awesome. We currently have literally dozens of threads discussing the same topic and it is getting increasingly difficult to follow the conversation.

Just to be clear, nothing personal here against Nef-Oracle nor do I mean to hijack his thread. This is a fine post, I just feel it would help the discussion a lot if we kept the number of threads more limited.

[Nef-Oracle]

Guys, I have a bit of a curveball theory here.

If you remeber not too long ago,  a report came out saying that one team in the top 3 had given Josh Jackson a promise that they'd draft him if he fell to them.

Now let's say that rumor was true...we already know this team wasn't Boston,  since Jackson never met with the Celtics.  That means it must be either Philly or the Lakers who have this promise.

The Lakers just gave Jackson a second workout and word is that it didn't go well AT ALL.  Now, if the Lakers already promised Jackson that they'd take him at #2, why bother even having a second workout?  It doesn't fit, so i dont imagine it's the Lakers.

That leaves Philly as the only team who could have likely made that promise,  right?   Now suddenly, after the world starts taking about Boston's interest in Jackson, Philly agrees to give up draft picks to move up in the draft? Could it be that they are moving up,  not to take Fultz, but to honour their promise to Jackson?

Could it be that Boston liked Fultz, Tatum and Jackson equally, with Jackson just slightly ahead,  but happy to go wider way?

They tell Philly that they are leaving towards taking Jackson,  Philly folds under the pressure,  gives in and trades up.

Now worst case Lakers take Fultz (very possible),  in which case Boston takes Tatum. 

Or best case,  Lakers select Ball and Boston takes Fultz.

IF Boston knows for sure that Philly is taking Jackson,  then that's basically a win-win for Boston.  They pick up an extra pick or two AND still get one of the two guys they wanted regardless, and saves a couple of million on the rookie contract...which helps them to after a max free agent.

If the rumours about Jackson getting a top 3 promise are true,  then this makes a lot of sense.

We all immediately assume that Philly is trading up to take Fultz, since so many people have him as the consensus #1 pick.   But if Philly love Jackson and really did make a draft promise to him,  and if everybody is convinced that the Lakers will draft Ball, then it would make total sense for Philly and Boston to make this trade - Philly gets Jackson, Lakers get Ball, Boston gets Fultz - everything works out as planned,  everybody gets the guy they want,  and Boston gets an extra pick or two out of it as assurance that evening works to plan.

Don't make sense for Philly to trade the LA pick if they wanted Jackson. They already have Saric, Simmons, Covington and a bunch of guys I dont remember having a jump shot who play at the same spot. Plus his workout with LA didn't go well at ALL so they could've had him at 3 w/o a problem. On the other hand LA could draft him because... well it's the Lakers and Magic is the gm. He will try to p--- us off by drafting him and I kinda think that's what Danny is waiting so he can pick Ball and trade him to Sacto for more picks and get his defense first guy in Fox or DSJ

[Nef-Oracle]

There have always been three lines of action to expect this summer:

The draft
The free agency
Trades

Trading down gives us an extra $1M to sign a free agent. Getting full max space cleared was a major pain point. Let's see what happens.

If Ainge signs Griffin, gets Butler for the #3, Crowder and some lesser assets, has the money to keep Bradley, and ends up with the #3 pick next year, we should all be impressed.

Of course, if we  don't sign a free agent, make no trade, grab Jackson and only end up with the 14th pick in 2019, we should all be p---ed off.

We'll see soon enough.

Can't sign Griffin, trade for Butler and resign Bradley and Thomas

[Nef-Oracle]

Danny made the trade because he doesn't think Fultz is going to be the next Harden. If he did think he was the next Harden, he would never give him up for $2mil in cap space or for a short-term size need.

Thing is we have IT, Rozier showed flash against the wiz and both Bradley and Smart are too valuable defensively for the team. Either one can play w/ Isaiah and guard his match effectively, Fultz isn't there yet. Money was a factor but it's not everything