Author Topic: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick  (Read 106790 times)

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Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #600 on: October 22, 2017, 03:10:31 PM »

Offline Boris Badenov

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Way too early to tell.

I will offer this though. Danny seems to care a lot about the mental makeup of his players, going back to the beginning of his tenure as GM. And this sequence might say something about that. Fultz looks like a deer in the headlights out there. And he made a decision to alter his shot that was (a) seemingly without the advice or consent of his new coaches, and (b) incredibly poorly timed. Who *does* that?

Everyone has bad games and plenty of All-NBA players have gotten off to atrocious rookie starts. But something just feels different here.


Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #601 on: October 22, 2017, 03:25:23 PM »

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Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.
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Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #602 on: October 22, 2017, 03:32:14 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #603 on: October 22, 2017, 03:34:14 PM »

Offline max215

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I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
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Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #604 on: October 22, 2017, 03:36:14 PM »

Offline moiso

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I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.
I think 3 NBA games and the preseason is much more valuable information than 1000 college games.

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #605 on: October 22, 2017, 03:37:19 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872

We'll see how that goes for you...

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #606 on: October 22, 2017, 03:39:27 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #607 on: October 22, 2017, 03:41:24 PM »

Offline max215

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I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.
I think 3 NBA games and the preseason is much more valuable information than 1000 college games.

Yep, sure can draw a lot from 3 NBA games. Does make you question why Danny traded so much for 37% shooter Kyrie Irving, though.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #608 on: October 22, 2017, 03:42:21 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #609 on: October 22, 2017, 03:45:15 PM »

Offline max215

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I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872
Given the info I had prior to the draft, Id take Fultz #1 all day long, but I dont think Id take him #1 now. This is a legitimate and serious issue. He has either has a serious injury he should not be playing through, or he has a serious mental problem.

That's fine. I prefer to stick to my prior evaluation for longer, but Fultz looks like a different player now (for the worse). If you think that's who he is and not the special player we saw at Washington, then I would hope you wouldn't take him #1. I'm not pretending that I'm not concerned. What Fultz has shown is terrifying, but at Washington, he was truly special, and as bad as he's been, he's still shown some of that incredible herky jerky game that made him so unstoppable. I'm giving him time, and a lot of it, before I write him off.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #610 on: October 22, 2017, 03:46:22 PM »

Offline max215

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I think it’s best to wait until the middle of the season at least.

I agree, but that didn't stop all the strong opinions against the trade before either player even wore a jersey. That said, if the draft were redone today I would strongly doubt Fultz is still #1 on too many boards.

Oh, yes, how dare anyone conduct draft evaluations? The audacity of some people.

Wait, so what you're saying is it's okay to have strong convictions prior to the draft, but it's premature to have an opinion based on actual NBA footage? It's fluid, but in that fluidity it's safe to say right now, October 22, 2017, Tatum is clearly the better player, has the most longterm potential between the two (Tatum vs Fultz), and Ainge was undoubtedly correct.

Yes, I think drawing conclusions from a season of college basketball is more reasonable than from 3 games of NBA basketball. I do not believe this is a hot take.

Really? So based on that I assume you believe that despite all the evidence we have on Fultz during summer league, preseason, the 3 regular season games, the footage on his FT shooting in scrimmages, and Brown being pretty concerned about his mechanics, you would still take those 25 college games, and draft him #1. Is that correct?

Edit:
I mean Derek Bodner, Sixers beat writer, who RARELY says a negative word on team recently said something to the effect of - The Sixers traded up to draft a Rondo, without the passing, at #1.

Yes, given the information I have access to, I'd still take him #1 overall. However, I'm now open to the possibility that Danny had access to information that justified the trade. As for Bodner, you added a fair amount of your own flavor to what he actually said:

https://twitter.com/DerekBodnerNBA/status/921953346973519872

We'll see how that goes for you...

Well, yeah, and we're not going to know for multiple years, which is why it was probably slightly premature to revive this thread 3 games into Fultz's career.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

DKC Clippers

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #611 on: October 22, 2017, 03:57:02 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #612 on: October 22, 2017, 03:58:05 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.

I agree with that, and I'd also agree that so far, the deal looks good for us right now.

I'm just saying, we should probably give it some time. Because as you know around here, once Fultz scores like 30 points the next game, everyone here will change their tune  :laugh:
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #613 on: October 22, 2017, 04:00:27 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.

I agree with that, and I'd also agree that so far, the deal looks good for us right now.

I'm just saying, we should probably give it some time. Because as you know around here, once Fultz scores like 30 points the next game, everyone here will change their tune  :laugh:

Score 30? I'm assuming they'll all be layups because you can forget about perimeter shooting and free throws. Maybe in 2K Fultz isn't scared to shoot and can score 30.

Re: Woj, Stein, & Lowe - C's and Sixers in serious talks for #1 pick
« Reply #614 on: October 22, 2017, 04:02:24 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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Well, if we go by this logic, then I guess we can say the Kyrie trade was a bust. Right?

I mean... one HORRIBLE game, 1-2 start, payed a $25K fine, hasn't looked like a leader some of the games, hasn't made others looked better, selfish, etc.. I guess CLE already won this deal.  ::)

Come on, it's only 3 games in. Get back to me when we're 30 games into the season.

Are you really comparing Irving to Fultz? A fine? That's part of your argument? How exactly has Irving been selfish?

Fultz's issue is not adjusting to a team, like Irving. His issue is a shot that's fundamentally broken and that's a major issue when he's playing off of Simmons and Embiid and one of the reasons he was thought of so highly is because they were under the impression he could shoot. This despite his pre-draft workout with the team where he was said to struggle shooting from the perimeter.

Nope, I didn't make comparisons here. You missed my point entirely.

I'm responding to those saying that we officially won the deal (the pick swap) after seeing just 3 games in an NBA season, and pretty much rhetorically asking what people think of the Kyrie trade after watching 3 games (do they call that a bust already, or huge win?)

It's not just that Fultz is missing, it's that his shot is completely broken. That's a HUGE concern. You're understating the concern. I'm not even bringing up his questionable personalty and seemingly lack of maturity.

I agree with that, and I'd also agree that so far, the deal looks good for us right now.

I'm just saying, we should probably give it some time. Because as you know around here, once Fultz scores like 30 points the next game, everyone here will change their tune  :laugh:

Score 30? I'm assuming they'll all be layups because you can forget about perimeter shooting and free throws. Maybe in 2K Fultz isn't scared to shoot and can score 30.

Lol probably.

But Lonzo was horrible first game, then second game scored 29 points and close to a triple double (though he got 29 points in like 27 shots). Some people on here were like, "WOW LOOK AT LONZO GO!" about a day after many considered him a relative bust already.

I wish Fultz well in the future but hope he doesn't become an all-star while Tatum becomes a superstar  8)
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller