Author Topic: Too much talk about defense around here  (Read 2836 times)

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Too much talk about defense around here
« on: June 15, 2017, 05:36:12 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Fultz's defense is suspect. Ball is straight horrible. Curry and Harden and Westbrook are three of the top seven players in the world and their defense is pretty bad.

 Durant is nothing special either but he did step up big when it matters.


 So Fultz doesn't guard much, that's cool. Just drop 30ppg 6rpg 6 apg and we will all get be over it quickly.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2017, 05:44:01 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Durant is nothing special either but he did step up big when it matters.

This is true if you have the firepower to overcome it.  We don't!

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2017, 05:52:54 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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 Wait a minute.  We are actually on the brink.

 Isaiah Thomas
 Markelle Fultz
 Gordon Hayward
 Carmelo Anthony
 Horford

 Team no defense baby!

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2017, 05:53:25 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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The Warriors have the DPOY runner up from the past two seasons (and likely this year's winner) on their roster and had the 2nd best team defense this season.  The lesson you should take from them isn't "defense doesn't matter," it's "team defense is more important than 1-on-1 defense"

As long as those guys become competent team defenders, it doesn't matter if they can't lock a guy down
I'm bitter.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2017, 06:32:59 PM »

Offline chilidawg

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The Warriors have the DPOY runner up from the past two seasons (and likely this year's winner) on their roster and had the 2nd best team defense this season.  The lesson you should take from them isn't "defense doesn't matter," it's "team defense is more important than 1-on-1 defense"

As long as those guys become competent team defenders, it doesn't matter if they can't lock a guy down

But often team defense starts with good one on one D, especially with iso guys like Irving and James.  GS has Green, Thompson,  Igoudala and Durant who are all excellent defenders.

I think what GS teaches us is that you need versatile, athletic 2 way players.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2017, 06:37:39 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Durant, Iguodala, Klay Thompson, and Green are all really good individual defenders.

The idea that Durant "is nothing special" isnt exactly true.

He didnt give a ton of effort on defense in years past during the regular seasons, but when locked in his quickness and wingspan allow him to be borderline elite as an individual defender.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2017, 06:46:08 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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 Fultz's defense is suspect. Ball is straight horrible. Curry and Harden and Westbrook are three of the top seven players in the world and their defense is pretty bad.

 Durant is nothing special either but he did step up big when it matters.


 So Fultz doesn't guard much, that's cool. Just drop 30ppg 6rpg 6 apg and we will all get be over it quickly.
That's just your opinion. Are they superstars? Yes, of course. Are they in the top 7 in terms of hype/media exposure? Yes, for sure. Could they be the number 1 option on a legit championship contender? Hell no. They are obviously very talented at what they do but imo they are not winners. They are entertainers.

- no D whatsoever
- terrible shot selection
- at their best when playing at fast pace -> great players for the regular season, not so much for the playoffs

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2017, 07:05:05 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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 Fultz's defense is suspect. Ball is straight horrible. Curry and Harden and Westbrook are three of the top seven players in the world and their defense is pretty bad.

 Durant is nothing special either but he did step up big when it matters.


 So Fultz doesn't guard much, that's cool. Just drop 30ppg 6rpg 6 apg and we will all get be over it quickly.
That's just your opinion. Are they superstars? Yes, of course. Are they in the top 7 in terms of hype/media exposure? Yes, for sure. Could they be the number 1 option on a legit championship contender? Hell no. They are obviously very talented at what they do but imo they are not winners. They are entertainers.

- no D whatsoever
- terrible shot selection
- at their best when playing at fast pace -> great players for the regular season, not so much for the playoffs
lol thats also just your opinion
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2017, 07:33:08 PM »

Offline Eja117

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Crazy talk. It's well known defense wins in the NBA. Once again this year the two best defensive teams led by the best defensive players made it to the finals and the best defensive team won.

Soon these players will take their seats among the great all-defensive team players of the 80s like Michael Cooper who led the 80s Lakers and Mark Eaton and Maurice Cheeks and Bobby Jones and then later players like Raja Bell, Mookie Blaylock, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Larry Hughes, Ron Artest, and Shane Battier.

If you can't play defense at a high level in this league you're not going far. I don't care what you bring to the table. You can shoot 50% from the free throw line or 28% from the field. If you can play great defense that's where it's at in this league and that's why we're looking at Fultz, Ball, and Tatum.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2017, 07:40:31 PM »

Offline Rosco917

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It depends just how "pretty bad" the defense is.

Is it not up to par when compared to the best defenders in the league? Where maybe a little more effort would pay dividends, kind of bad?

Or is it useless, a team liability... as in actually a target to be exploited type of bad?

All things being equal, we just watched the NBA championships, where the team that had what was considered by all the better defensive win in 5 games. Defense does matters.






Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2017, 07:49:38 PM »

Offline tstorey_97

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They were talking to Cedric Maxwell. Must have been a few years ago. The interviewer was talking about a Celtics rookie who had just had a 28 point game.

Max--"So I had a 32 point game my rookie year and the game is over and I go over to Red and I'm looking for a pat on the back and he takes his cigar out and Red says...'yea? How many did the guy you were covering get?'"

Max said that he was technically a minus three for that game.

I agree that the game is far different from when Cornbread was playing, but, it's not that different. Garnett agrees doesn't he?

Auerbach created the modern NBA game and your team must have an offensive/defensive balance or they will just be the San Diego Chargers. Lot of highlight reels...whoopee.

Will the three point barrage forever alter the league? Why not, just keep in mind another coach with a brain will come along and reinvent it again and it will become something else.

Hoodie picked the biggest best tight end he could find in the draft for ten seasons before the rest of the league figured out that a 6'6" 260 lb guy standing on the goal line was a mismatch against smaller DB's.

Anyway, the Celtic's offense was strangled by the Cav's defense who aren't even the best team in the league.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2017, 07:56:37 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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Crazy talk. It's well known defense wins in the NBA. Once again this year the two best defensive teams led by the best defensive players made it to the finals and the best defensive team won.

Soon these players will take their seats among the great all-defensive team players of the 80s like Michael Cooper who led the 80s Lakers and Mark Eaton and Maurice Cheeks and Bobby Jones and then later players like Raja Bell, Mookie Blaylock, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Larry Hughes, Ron Artest, and Shane Battier.

If you can't play defense at a high level in this league you're not going far. I don't care what you bring to the table. You can shoot 50% from the free throw line or 28% from the field. If you can play great defense that's where it's at in this league and that's why we're looking at Fultz, Ball, and Tatum.

I disagree

Ball is a decent defender. He has short choppy strides to harass his man. As well good instincts to cut off lanes,  good rebounder, shot blocker for his size.   

He could be more locked in for sure

Steph Curry is a solid defender. He puts in the effort. 

The worst position to be weak defensively is at the PG spot.  Once your man dances around you, passes you,  PNR etc.  the other 4 guys have to work that much harder ...

This leads to difficulties on the offensive end (exhaustion)...

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2017, 08:44:59 PM »

Offline mr. dee

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Crazy talk. It's well known defense wins in the NBA. Once again this year the two best defensive teams led by the best defensive players made it to the finals and the best defensive team won.

Soon these players will take their seats among the great all-defensive team players of the 80s like Michael Cooper who led the 80s Lakers and Mark Eaton and Maurice Cheeks and Bobby Jones and then later players like Raja Bell, Mookie Blaylock, Bruce Bowen, Doug Christie, Larry Hughes, Ron Artest, and Shane Battier.

If you can't play defense at a high level in this league you're not going far. I don't care what you bring to the table. You can shoot 50% from the free throw line or 28% from the field. If you can play great defense that's where it's at in this league and that's why we're looking at Fultz, Ball, and Tatum.

Cavs wasn't exactly a great defensive team. What they have is an elite scoring and respectable rebounding.

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2017, 09:01:50 PM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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I absolutely love Brad, but is he sometimes to blame for the lack of cohesion on the defensive end?

Everyone loves to blame IT, but the rest of the team are supposed plus defenders. Bradley is all-world. Smart is a savant when it comes to team defense. Crowder and Horford are quality defenders. Even Amir was known for his defense. Yet our defense was brutal for the most part.

So either IT soooo bad that they can't overcome him, or the game plan just isn't working.

They were an elite defensive team the season prior WITH IT, so I don't believe he's the main problem. I think they just focused on making the offense flow that they couldn't lock in on the other end. Much like how Doc's teams focused on defense and led to some really bad offensive possessions despite great offensive players.
CELTICS 2024

Re: Too much talk about defense around here
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2017, 09:01:55 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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Totally agree. The Celtics' problem is offense. And, it's a big problem.

Another legit scorer, just one, would change everything, including making the defense better by making the opponent work harder on its own defense, leaving it too fried to sustain its offense and eventually defense, as well, which in turn would make the Cs' offense even more formidable over the course of the game and particularly down the stretch.

For all the people who still want to take IT to task for his supposed defensive liabilities, imagine where the Celtics would have been this year without his offense. Most likely not in the playoffs. Then, imagine how good the Cs would be with another scorer, or two, somewhere near his caliber.