Author Topic: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)  (Read 46106 times)

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Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #240 on: June 17, 2017, 03:06:55 PM »

Offline GetLucky

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Josh Jackson will be a huge bust. Stay away
would you care to provide us all with some reasons? rationales? proof? data? reports? anything to nudge this post beyond being an unsupported assertion?

thank you.

I'm willing to share my concerns. First of all, I'd have to define bust, because if bust means wash out of the NBA entirely, it's very unlikely that he busts. However, he could very realistically be nothing more than a mediocre rotation player. Let's start with his defense. It's good, and he has the mindset to play great defense, but he's not the elite defender he's been made out to be. Furthermore, he's skinny and has a short wingspan, which doesn't bode well for his ability to become elite. I think he'll always be a distinctly positive defender, but I doubt he's ever elite, and the idea that he already is is comical. His offense is even scarier. I think we can all agree that Jackson's best offensive skill is his passing. However, his passing really only shines in transition, which is worrisome because what the heck does he offer in the half court. His handle is pretty good, but it's not like he's some super advanced ball-handler. His shot needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Yes, he shot 38% from three. He did that on 90 attempts. His far larger sample from before college is troubling. Couple that with his gnarly FT% and hideous form, and I feel pretty confident in Jackson's inability to shoot. In reviewing Jackson, I've been left with one extremely worrisome question: what is Jackson's avenue to being a successful offensive player? Outside of transition opportunities, I don't see how he becomes one. That's terrifying out of the #3 pick.

I find it telling that all the rabid Jackson supporters refuse (aren't able?) to respond to this.

Exactly, Tp

The reason I believe in Josh Jackson is in large part because I believe in his ability to be a primary ball handler and creator from the small forward position. He moves quickly and fluidly with the basketball and has very good athleticism and body control.  Add his good passing skills, and I believe you have a guy who you can have play with the ball in his hands at the next level.

Obviously you wouldn't put him in that role full time right away on a Celtics team that already features Isaiah Thomas, but on a team that needs additional slashers, these skills would be useful.  I'd be very excited to watch him grow as an NBA player.

Thank you for a real response. I disagree with you, but at least I know you're not just pulling stuff out of your ***.

Which part do you disagree with? That Jackson will be able to be a creator with the ball in his hands at the NBA level?

Josh Jackson's ball handling is not good.

https://youtu.be/0YCqOIlHx9g

Even in that video, I feel like he displays the look of a natural ballhandler.  He played almost exclusively as a four in college, so he didn't get a ton of opportunity to handle the ball.

Sure, he showed a tendency to get sloppy when he did handle the rock, and he could use improvement.  When I watch him play, though, I see the ability being there. 

I think he will surprise people when he gets to play more exclusively at the wing in the NBA.

The history of athletic wings who have had the luxury of playing the 4 in college and then had to play the 3 in the NBA is not exactly littered with success stories.

I guess I'll take your word on that.

Notably in the last couple drafts: Ingram and Winslow.

A couple 19/20 year olds with one season under their belts (Winslow was hurt most of last) isn't really a great example. Let these kids grow into there bodies and play a few seasons before you call bust.

And once they grow into their bodies they can be the next Michael Beasley and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #241 on: June 17, 2017, 03:17:13 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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2016-2017 Josh Jackson highlights.  A little taste of what's to come...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdPqEI3D_Us

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #242 on: June 17, 2017, 04:11:54 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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The number three pick and the Lakers pick next year is not enough. Needs to be more

Jackson is a long long way from being good at the next level

dont' forget the 2021 76ers 1st

I think the deal will be 2017 3rd, 2018 Lakers pick and 2021 option to swap with 76ers
That potential super team Fultz/Simmons/Saric/Embiid will make that pick mid of the first round at best.
Potential "super team"? I think Philly should be happy if they are a playoff team by then. It usually takes a mostly on their rookie contract type teams 5-6 years to gel into contender status if all the players pan out.

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #243 on: June 17, 2017, 04:24:19 PM »

Offline dreamgreen

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2016-2017 Josh Jackson highlights.  A little taste of what's to come...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdPqEI3D_Us

Can you make one of his lowlights, like missing almost 50% of his free throws?

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #244 on: June 17, 2017, 09:13:12 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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Josh Jackson will be a huge bust. Stay away
would you care to provide us all with some reasons? rationales? proof? data? reports? anything to nudge this post beyond being an unsupported assertion?

thank you.

I'm willing to share my concerns. First of all, I'd have to define bust, because if bust means wash out of the NBA entirely, it's very unlikely that he busts. However, he could very realistically be nothing more than a mediocre rotation player. Let's start with his defense. It's good, and he has the mindset to play great defense, but he's not the elite defender he's been made out to be. Furthermore, he's skinny and has a short wingspan, which doesn't bode well for his ability to become elite. I think he'll always be a distinctly positive defender, but I doubt he's ever elite, and the idea that he already is is comical. His offense is even scarier. I think we can all agree that Jackson's best offensive skill is his passing. However, his passing really only shines in transition, which is worrisome because what the heck does he offer in the half court. His handle is pretty good, but it's not like he's some super advanced ball-handler. His shot needs to be torn down and rebuilt. Yes, he shot 38% from three. He did that on 90 attempts. His far larger sample from before college is troubling. Couple that with his gnarly FT% and hideous form, and I feel pretty confident in Jackson's inability to shoot. In reviewing Jackson, I've been left with one extremely worrisome question: what is Jackson's avenue to being a successful offensive player? Outside of transition opportunities, I don't see how he becomes one. That's terrifying out of the #3 pick.

Okay, just so you know I am not for picking Jackson at all as discussed in that other thread, and I can't believe that I'm going to do this, but I think you're underselling his abilities -

- I've seen people compare Jackson to Winslow and Stanley Johnson, which doesn't make sense to me.  Jackson is a much better athlete and, most importantly, actually score *braces for impact*.  He does have a good handle, but he can also do what neither Winslow nor Johnson can do, and that's create space with his handle and he has a nice step-back, until he shoots it, lol ;D, plus, he can post up.  He's got a nice left shoulder turnaround/fadeaway jumper and a right handed jump hook, so he does have tools, and far more than both of those other dudes combined. 

Again, I'm not for the pick, but I don't think he's nearly as bad as you say, offensively, but I'm probably wrong :-\.

2.  In terms of wingspan, 6'9.75" at the 2016 hoop summit per draftexpress is hardly bad, and it's more about attitude and fire, which he definitely has, and I think he's an excellent defender already.  I mean, how many wings average anywhere near 1.1 bpg?  I'd also submit that Jimmy Butler's wingspan was deemed poor, as well, when he measured in at 6'7.5" at the 2011 combine, and he's turned out to be pretty good, right?

Please don't hurt me ;D.

Honestly, we should have seen this coming.  I mean, look at his hair ;D.

Oh well, at least he rebounds :-\. I'm just trying to make the most of this right now, lol ;D.

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #245 on: June 17, 2017, 09:35:58 PM »

Online Who

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I am very impressed by Josh Jackson's quickness in team defense.

His capacity to help & recover is exceptional.

It is more that (team defense) than his one-on-one ability that impresses me most defensively.

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #246 on: June 17, 2017, 10:21:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Yeah, I don't get the complaints on his measurables. Jackson has very good length and excellent sideways mobility and explosive forward and backward speed with an amazing vertical. He will, above all else be an elite defender and a terror in the open court because he can dribble and pass excellently in the fast break.

Where I have concerns is in his half court offense. He could become a Hack a Jack due to his free throw shooting and the horrid hitch and jerk in his shooting form could cause problems when he is constantly contested by NBA athletic defenders.

But, he has nerves and a great work ethic and a very high BBIQ. Perhaps, like Shawn Marion he can eventually make hus horrid form work and be a very good shooter. We will see.

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #247 on: June 17, 2017, 11:10:45 PM »

Offline Somebody

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i love Browns individual potential.   Same can be said about Jacksons

but having these two , on the same team....   top notch

both can guard 1-4 . Both can score 1 on 1 due to their explosiveness

Both get to the line at a high rate.

I'd rather have Fultz and Brown.

Both being able to score 1 on 1 is questionable.

Who cares if u get to the line and can't make em.

If Fultz, Brown and Jackson reach their full potential.  Fultz will be the best player by a mile.

of course it matters...  opposing teams are over the limit quicker.....specific players in foul trouble ...   your teammates can also get to the line

Of the 3 players - Brown, Jackson and Fultz.  If they all reach their full potential, who will be better?

Also, please respond to max215's statement while ur at it

this is fantasy talk... What if Marcus Smart can shoot at even 35 percent from the 3 point line? 

Lets see fultz actually get into a proper low stance and play strong D 1st ...before we talk about full potential. 

Ok let me ask you...right  now who would win in a 1 on 1 game.  Fultz or Jackson??
this is fantasy talk...what if Mickey can block shots like Bill Russell?

Let's see if Jackson can even shoot nba threes and play better offense than Marcus Smart 1st...before we talk about his full potential.

Ok let me ask you...right now who would win in a 1 on 1 game? Fultz or Jackson?  ::)

of course Jackson.  Jackson would smother Fultz on the defensive end

Fultz has troubles even guard regular decent college players. How is he going to stay in front/guard Jackson?

Of course Fultz. Fultz would still kill Jackson with his shot making and creation ability.

Jackson has "troubles even"  getting his offense running against regular decent college players. How is he going to even score against Fultz? ::)

LOL!! omg this is hilarious

fultz would not be able to get by Jackson nor shoot over him... fultz had problems turning the corner against quick/physical pgs last season

Jackson would shoot over, drive by Fultz utilizing his elite quickness/explosivenes....couple with Fulz weak defensive game at the moment

its almost not a fair 1 on 1 battle
LOL! OMG this is hilarious

Jackson would not he able to get his offense running with Fultz nor could he EVEN SHOOT...Jackson had problems shooting and playing offense against quick/physical players  last season

Fultz would shoot over, drive by Fultz utilizing his elite quickness/explosiveness...couple with Jackson weak offensive game at the moment

It's almost not even a fair 1 on 1 battle  ::) (enjoy it guys)

what are you on friend?

who was quicker than Jackson last season?  There aren't even many in the NBA that are quicker/explosive  than Jackson........ He shot the ball from the 3 pt line at 37 percent... all fluky made 3s?

Quote from: Somebody
Fultz would shoot over, drive by Fultz utilizing his elite quickness/explosiveness...couple with Jackson weak offensive game at the moment

what in heavens??
What are you on friend?

Who gave problems to Fultz last season? There aren't even many in the NBA that can clamp down/control Fultz...... his defensive stats were not horrible...all fluky written articles on Celticsblog?

Quote from: triboy16f
fultz would not be able to get by Jackson nor shoot over him... fultz had problems turning the corner against quick/physical pgs last season
What are you on my friend??

you must be on something special   ;D
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Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #248 on: June 19, 2017, 09:45:51 AM »

Offline mmmmm

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This is the part where I go around defining a bust and bust situations and everyone else sorta says "Nooooo. That's not a bust" and then never offer a definition themselves, presumably because they don't believe it's possible to have a bust as long as the GM and player just try their best or something

That is not true.  I gave you a definition that I think most folks would agree:

I am fairly certain that for the vast majority of people, the definition of a 'bust' is a player who dramatically underperforms his draft slot.

And this is fairly simple to measure.  If the #3 pick ends up accruing fewer win shares than 40 other players taken from the same draft, then he has dramatically underperformed his draft slot.  He would be a bust.  But if he ends up ranking, say 8th, then that's not really a bust.  It's not great.  But it would just mean a few other guys dramatically outperformed their slots.
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Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #249 on: June 19, 2017, 09:57:48 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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I am very impressed by Josh Jackson's quickness in team defense.

His capacity to help & recover is exceptional.

It is more that (team defense) than his one-on-one ability that impresses me most defensively.

He reminds me of Smart that way.  A lot of Smart's best moments on defense are him pouncing on passing lanes for example when he has a read on the play.  Jackson does that kind of thing a lot too.
"I really don't want people to understand me." - Jordan Crawford

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #250 on: June 19, 2017, 10:00:34 AM »

Offline number_n9ne

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If we are hearing that Ainge likes Jackson, then it means he is going to take someone else lol. I still think #3 for #5 and #10. Tatum and Smith!

Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #251 on: June 19, 2017, 10:05:34 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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If we are hearing that Ainge likes Jackson, then it means he is going to take someone else lol. I still think #3 for #5 and #10. Tatum and Smith!

Yes I am sure Sacramento is salivating over the possibility of picking #3 to give up #5 and #10.


Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #252 on: June 19, 2017, 10:10:42 AM »

Offline Snakehead

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If we are hearing that Ainge likes Jackson, then it means he is going to take someone else lol. I still think #3 for #5 and #10. Tatum and Smith!

Yes I am sure Sacramento is salivating over the possibility of picking #3 to give up #5 and #10.

This really isn't out of the realm of possibility if you are trying to make it sound that way.
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Re: Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)
« Reply #253 on: June 22, 2017, 08:00:15 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Good job on making them think wrong danny lol

Master of deception