Ford: GMs Think Ainge Really Likes Josh Jackson (Insider)

[Tr1boy]

So let me get this straight, one GM says that based on the type of player Ainge prefers he thinks they'll pick Jackson? Ummmm, first of all that means literally next to nothing. All this tells us is what one GM thinks, not what the Celtics are thinking. And ya Ainge often takes the hard working defensive player, but not all the time. He was rumored to love KD, and KD doesn't fit that archetype. He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type. Lastly Jackson cancelled his work out likely because he KNOWS he's not going first and he's rumored to have a promise from a top 3 team (which isn't the Celtics because they don't give promises). Thus he has nothing to gain from such a workout.

IMO
Danny likes KD not only due to his skills plus height but he is tough.   

three things Danny and CBS like are toughness, motor, leaders
secondary -  big players with skills or backcourt players with length

[jpotter33]

Fultz has the highest upside but also is the least ready (out of the top 5)..... He also needs to toughen up

Celtics staff may feel, guys like Smart may chew him alive.   Challenge him etc. 

Maybe he might cave..

A guy like Jackson won't

I don't think Fultz will see much minutes next season...at least until his defense is as good as Roziers .  Jackson should be able to contribute immediately , due to defense alone

We will have to see what type of direction Danny wants to take.  This is why i have been saying that this team is lucky but in a difficult situation.   You need to let a guy like Fultz play, develop, breathe , grow, make mistakes.   On this current team, the margin of error is small

lol so Fultz 'might cave', yet ' a guy like Jackson won't'.

I didn't realize you knew their personalities and mental fortitude like a psychologist triboy.
When and where did you conduct these tests?
In your mom's basement?

Where's this notion coming from that Fultz isn't all that ready and will hardly play starting off?

I think Fultz will play more than Brown did in his rookie year, because his scoring and shooting will be needed off of our bench.

[Boris Badenov]

Ainge has also said, over and over, that the hardest type of player to find is that elite end-of-game scoring talent. He's continually stressed it and targeted those types of players in trade discussions and free agency.

From which we learn that it is actually possible that Danny Ainge, mastermind GM behind one of the quickest rebuilds in league history, might actually - wait for it - be open to drafting more than one type of player.

And that therefore, given the choice between two such players, he might just go ahead and choose BPA.

Astounding.

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

So let me get this straight, one GM says that based on the type of player Ainge prefers he thinks they'll pick Jackson? Ummmm, first of all that means literally next to nothing. All this tells us is what one GM thinks, not what the Celtics are thinking. And ya Ainge often takes the hard working defensive player, but not all the time. He was rumored to love KD, and KD doesn't fit that archetype. He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type. Lastly Jackson cancelled his work out likely because he KNOWS he's not going first and he's rumored to have a promise from a top 3 team (which isn't the Celtics because they don't give promises). Thus he has nothing to gain from such a workout.

IMO
Danny likes KD not only due to his skills plus height but he is tough.   

three things Danny and CBS like are toughness, motor, leaders
secondary -  big players with skills or backcourt players with length

Im not sure Id call Durant a leader. He deferred to Russel Westbrook to much in OKC and he has said that one of the reasons he came to GSW was because he could be one of the guys and wouldnt be forced to take on a leadership role. Im also not entirely sure Id call him tough. Although I wouldnt call him otherwise.

I think Ainge loved KD because he was a truly devastating scoring talent. Isnt that enough?

[Celtics4ever]

He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type.

In retrospect those were not the best players.  He likes skilled players which drop.  He has never had a number one pick.   Brown was not someone people expected.   I will support whomever he picks.

There is no comparison between Jackson and Fultz. Jackson projects as a defensive role player. Kawahi Leonard without the offense and hopefully 50% of the defense.

Forgive me if I don't trust  many of the blog to judge big man after many here clung to Sullinger  and want to bring him back.   

There is a lot to contradict your assertions and these are guys who talk about the NBA for a living.  Doesn't make them right, I actually respect some here more than some NBA beat writers but not all of course.

Multiple teams have fallen in love w/Josh Jackson. Is perhaps highest upside player in this draft and has a legit shot to go first overall.

http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2017/05/nba_draft_trade_rumors_sixers_celtics_fultz_no_1_p.html

“I freaking love him,” said an executive of a team that should be fairly high in the Lottery. “This guy’s getting better as he goes, so I can’t see how he can’t be Iguodala -- a guy who can defend and pass, and who’s becoming a better shooter. I know the Kansas people, and in terms of work and all that stuff … they were absolutely in love with him as a kid -- not a little bit, a lot. He has Wiggins’ athleticism with character off the chain.”

“He’s kind of like Wiggins a little bit,” the college coach said. “Wiggins left after his freshman year; Josh Jackson is a better shooter (than Wiggins was at the same time). Josh has got crazy athleticism, but Wiggins is elite. They both can defend. They both rebound. They both do similar stuff. But Wiggins is more athletic, and Josh is more consistent.”

http://www.nba.com/da-big-board-small-forwards-2017-draft

Ainge never shows his hand is what I said.  I will support whomever he takes providing they can play basketball, stay in shape and show effort and help the team.

This is the only head to head play of the two I could find.  Jackson won that match up handily.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Markelle-Fultz/Comparison/85903/Josh-Jackson/52032

http://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/Boxscore/2016

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

It's been suggested here a number of times by others, Jackson and Simmons for Fultz and Bradley makes a lot of sense.

Horford
Simmons
Crowder
Brown
IT

Smart
Rozier
Jackson
KO
Zizic

I'd take my chances with that team short term and long.  Still have cap space and future picks.

I can get behind this, and it wouldn't stop us from getting Hayward, too. That's a very good deal for both sides, in my opinion.

What I can't get behind is Ainge picking someone like Jackson over Fultz. That has Darko/Kwame Brown 2.0 written all over it.

It would be worse than that. Think Okafor over Towns, MKG over AD. It would be an unprecedented, franchise-crippling, mind-bogglingly stupid move.

Isn't this what people said after Danny picked Brown over Dunn last season?

you mean the time Danny picked the younger player with potential to be a two way star over the grit and balls defensive stud said to be a Danny Ainge type player?

[Dannys Chipotle Guy]

He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type.

In retrospect those were not the best players.  He likes skilled players which drop.  He has never had a number one pick.   Brown was not someone people expected.   I will support whomever he picks.

There is no comparison between Jackson and Fultz. Jackson projects as a defensive role player. Kawahi Leonard without the offense and hopefully 50% of the defense.

Forgive me if I don't trust  many of the blog to judge big man after many here clung to Sullinger  and want to bring him back.   

There is a lot to contradict your assertions and these are guys who talk about the NBA for a living.  Doesn't make them right, I actually respect some here more than some NBA beat writers but not all of course.

Multiple teams have fallen in love w/Josh Jackson. Is perhaps highest upside player in this draft and has a legit shot to go first overall.

http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2017/05/nba_draft_trade_rumors_sixers_celtics_fultz_no_1_p.html

“I freaking love him,” said an executive of a team that should be fairly high in the Lottery. “This guy’s getting better as he goes, so I can’t see how he can’t be Iguodala -- a guy who can defend and pass, and who’s becoming a better shooter. I know the Kansas people, and in terms of work and all that stuff … they were absolutely in love with him as a kid -- not a little bit, a lot. He has Wiggins’ athleticism with character off the chain.”

“He’s kind of like Wiggins a little bit,” the college coach said. “Wiggins left after his freshman year; Josh Jackson is a better shooter (than Wiggins was at the same time). Josh has got crazy athleticism, but Wiggins is elite. They both can defend. They both rebound. They both do similar stuff. But Wiggins is more athletic, and Josh is more consistent.”

http://www.nba.com/da-big-board-small-forwards-2017-draft

Ainge never shows his hand is what I said.  I will support whomever he takes providing they can play basketball, stay in shape and show effort and help the team.

This is the only head to head play of the two I could find.  Jackson won that match up handily.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Markelle-Fultz/Comparison/85903/Josh-Jackson/52032

http://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/Boxscore/2016

yeah Jackson is a really good prospect and I would neither be shocked nor angry if Danny took him over Fultz. I just think Triboy is making truly horrible points.

[Tr1boy]

He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type.

In retrospect those were not the best players.  He likes skilled players which drop.  He has never had a number one pick.   Brown was not someone people expected.   I will support whomever he picks.

There is no comparison between Jackson and Fultz. Jackson projects as a defensive role player. Kawahi Leonard without the offense and hopefully 50% of the defense.

Forgive me if I don't trust  many of the blog to judge big man after many here clung to Sullinger  and want to bring him back.   

There is a lot to contradict your assertions and these are guys who talk about the NBA for a living.  Doesn't make them right, I actually respect some here more than some NBA beat writers but not all of course.

Multiple teams have fallen in love w/Josh Jackson. Is perhaps highest upside player in this draft and has a legit shot to go first overall.

http://www.nj.com/sixers/index.ssf/2017/05/nba_draft_trade_rumors_sixers_celtics_fultz_no_1_p.html

“I freaking love him,” said an executive of a team that should be fairly high in the Lottery. “This guy’s getting better as he goes, so I can’t see how he can’t be Iguodala -- a guy who can defend and pass, and who’s becoming a better shooter. I know the Kansas people, and in terms of work and all that stuff … they were absolutely in love with him as a kid -- not a little bit, a lot. He has Wiggins’ athleticism with character off the chain.”

“He’s kind of like Wiggins a little bit,” the college coach said. “Wiggins left after his freshman year; Josh Jackson is a better shooter (than Wiggins was at the same time). Josh has got crazy athleticism, but Wiggins is elite. They both can defend. They both rebound. They both do similar stuff. But Wiggins is more athletic, and Josh is more consistent.”

http://www.nba.com/da-big-board-small-forwards-2017-draft

Ainge never shows his hand is what I said.  I will support whomever he takes providing they can play basketball, stay in shape and show effort and help the team.

This is the only head to head play of the two I could find.  Jackson won that match up handily.

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/Markelle-Fultz/Comparison/85903/Josh-Jackson/52032

http://basketball.realgm.com/highschool/mcdonalds/Boxscore/2016

Don't worry, if Jackson if drafted, there will be 10 Fire Danny threads....

Lots of people here were devastated when Rondo was traded , and Danny didn't trade for a hyper skilled but bonehead Cousins

but both were the right moves.  I trust in whatever decision Danny makes this offseason (draft, trades,  FA signing)

he is not perfect but better than most GMs.  It is very tough to win a championship in this league and he has already done it once. 

[Boris Badenov]

So let me get this straight, one GM says that based on the type of player Ainge prefers he thinks they'll pick Jackson? Ummmm, first of all that means literally next to nothing. All this tells us is what one GM thinks, not what the Celtics are thinking. And ya Ainge often takes the hard working defensive player, but not all the time. He was rumored to love KD, and KD doesn't fit that archetype. He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type. Lastly Jackson cancelled his work out likely because he KNOWS he's not going first and he's rumored to have a promise from a top 3 team (which isn't the Celtics because they don't give promises). Thus he has nothing to gain from such a workout.

IMO
Danny likes KD not only due to his skills plus height but he is tough.   

three things Danny and CBS like are toughness, motor, leaders
secondary -  big players with skills or backcourt players with length

Im not sure Id call Durant a leader. He deferred to Russel Westbrook to much in OKC and he has said that one of the reasons he came to GSW was because he could be one of the guys and wouldnt be forced to take on a leadership role. Im also not entirely sure Id call him tough. Although I wouldnt call him otherwise.

I think Ainge loved KD because he was a truly devastating scoring talent. Isnt that enough?

Yes, and there are countless other examples where he's deviated from the "types" above.

Honestly. For anyone to actually believe that Danny Ainge actually ranks and drafts players based on these meaningless and unprovable platitudes about "leadership" and "toughness" or "backcourt players with length" or "CBS style" displays a level of simplistic and shallow thinking that beggars belief.

He's Danny Ainge. He's not Skip ****g Bayless.

[Tr1boy]

So let me get this straight, one GM says that based on the type of player Ainge prefers he thinks they'll pick Jackson? Ummmm, first of all that means literally next to nothing. All this tells us is what one GM thinks, not what the Celtics are thinking. And ya Ainge often takes the hard working defensive player, but not all the time. He was rumored to love KD, and KD doesn't fit that archetype. He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type. Lastly Jackson cancelled his work out likely because he KNOWS he's not going first and he's rumored to have a promise from a top 3 team (which isn't the Celtics because they don't give promises). Thus he has nothing to gain from such a workout.

IMO
Danny likes KD not only due to his skills plus height but he is tough.   

three things Danny and CBS like are toughness, motor, leaders
secondary -  big players with skills or backcourt players with length

Im not sure Id call Durant a leader. He deferred to Russel Westbrook to much in OKC and he has said that one of the reasons he came to GSW was because he could be one of the guys and wouldnt be forced to take on a leadership role. Im also not entirely sure Id call him tough. Although I wouldnt call him otherwise.

I think Ainge loved KD because he was a truly devastating scoring talent. Isnt that enough?

Yes, and there are countless other examples where he's deviated from the "types" above.

Honestly. For anyone to actually believe that Danny Ainge actually ranks and drafts players based on these meaningless and unprovable platitudes about "leadership" and "toughness" or "backcourt players with length" or "CBS style" displays a level of simplistic and shallow thinking that beggars belief.

He's Danny Ainge. He's not Skip ****g Bayless.

“I’ve picked Danny’s brain for years,” one GM said. “Jackson is an Ainge player all the way. Tough, athletic, long, versatile, elite motor. If he’s keeping the pick, Jackson just to me, far and away, is the most Celtics-type player for them to draft. From all my conversations with them, I’m convinced they’ll take Jackson No. 1.”

So this gm is skip bayless?

Just because you don't understand the importance of these qualities...does not mean its shallow thinking

how do you draft players? based on stats alone?   based on wingspan?

talent evaluation is not an exact science

[Boris Badenov]

So let me get this straight, one GM says that based on the type of player Ainge prefers he thinks they'll pick Jackson? Ummmm, first of all that means literally next to nothing. All this tells us is what one GM thinks, not what the Celtics are thinking. And ya Ainge often takes the hard working defensive player, but not all the time. He was rumored to love KD, and KD doesn't fit that archetype. He selected Olynyk and Sullinger who aren't defensive forces. He takes the best player, not a type. Lastly Jackson cancelled his work out likely because he KNOWS he's not going first and he's rumored to have a promise from a top 3 team (which isn't the Celtics because they don't give promises). Thus he has nothing to gain from such a workout.

IMO
Danny likes KD not only due to his skills plus height but he is tough.   

three things Danny and CBS like are toughness, motor, leaders
secondary -  big players with skills or backcourt players with length

Im not sure Id call Durant a leader. He deferred to Russel Westbrook to much in OKC and he has said that one of the reasons he came to GSW was because he could be one of the guys and wouldnt be forced to take on a leadership role. Im also not entirely sure Id call him tough. Although I wouldnt call him otherwise.

I think Ainge loved KD because he was a truly devastating scoring talent. Isnt that enough?

Yes, and there are countless other examples where he's deviated from the "types" above.

Honestly. For anyone to actually believe that Danny Ainge actually ranks and drafts players based on these meaningless and unprovable platitudes about "leadership" and "toughness" or "backcourt players with length" or "CBS style" displays a level of simplistic and shallow thinking that beggars belief.

He's Danny Ainge. He's not Skip ****g Bayless.

“I’ve picked Danny’s brain for years,” one GM said. “Jackson is an Ainge player all the way. Tough, athletic, long, versatile, elite motor. If he’s keeping the pick, Jackson just to me, far and away, is the most Celtics-type player for them to draft. From all my conversations with them, I’m convinced they’ll take Jackson No. 1.”

So this gm is skip bayless?

Just because you don't understand the importance of these qualities...does not mean its shallow thinking

how do you draft players? based on stats alone?   based on wingspan?

talent evaluation is not an exact science

No. You're Skip Bayless. In case that wasn't clear.

Of course it's not an exact science. That's my whole point. And for you to ask whether "stats alone" or "wingspan" could serve as the sole basis for a decision proves my point. Are you also Jay Bilas? Should we talk about "jumpability"?

It's simplification that insults the intelligence of someone like Danny Ainge, to suggest that his love for a certain "type" would cause him to pass on a consensus #1 and possible franchise talent. Never mind that Danny has also and repeatedly expressed a deep desire to get exactly the type of player Fultz represents - are you ignoring that because it doesn't fit your narrative?

You're hanging your hat on one off-hand remark by an anonymous GM who has no stake in the decision, and who hasn't even spoken directly to Danny about this draft, apparently.

[tenn_smoothie]

Jackson is an Ainge player all the way. Tough, athletic, long, versatile, elite motor."

I think so, too.  Jackson can come right in and play defense plus Ainge never shows his hand and who has he been silent on?   Jackson.

I guess, but a lot of it might be circumstances too. I mean, who is usually available in the ranges that Ainge has been drafting? Usually it's pretty flawed players, and so by and large, they've erred toward motor/energy/athletes, because at least they'll have that.

Of course, the one time he didn't (olynyk over Giannis) is regrettable.


But, he hasn't really had the chance to pass over an all-around gifted consensus number 1 type of player just to grab an athlete.

Exactly ............... and the last thing this team needs is another tough defender who cannot shoot. I love tough defenders, yes, but we need scoring and rebounding and interior defense. Our needs are not complicated.

Are the Celtics convinced the two Euro-stash kids are going to fill our glaring need for a center ?

Stay patient, keep building.

[max215]

Fultz has the highest upside but also is the least ready (out of the top 5)..... He also needs to toughen up

Celtics staff may feel, guys like Smart may chew him alive.   Challenge him etc. 

Maybe he might cave..

A guy like Jackson won't

I don't think Fultz will see much minutes next season...at least until his defense is as good as Roziers .  Jackson should be able to contribute immediately , due to defense alone

We will have to see what type of direction Danny wants to take.  This is why i have been saying that this team is lucky but in a difficult situation.   You need to let a guy like Fultz play, develop, breathe , grow, make mistakes.   On this current team, the margin of error is small

lol so Fultz 'might cave', yet ' a guy like Jackson won't'.

I didn't realize you knew their personalities and mental fortitude like a psychologist triboy.
When and where did you conduct these tests?
In your mom's basement?

Where's this notion coming from that Fultz isn't all that ready and will hardly play starting off?

I think Fultz will play more than Brown did in his rookie year, because his scoring and shooting will be needed off of our bench.

It's coming from one place...one person rather.

[mr. dee]

Fultz just had a workout today with the Lakers

https://twitter.com/Lakers/status/875409863454728194/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fnesn.com%2F2017%2F06%2Flook-away-celtics-fans-markelle-fultz-rocks-lakers-gear-in-workout%2F

https://twitter.com/Lakers/status/875423140591017988?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=http%3A%2F%2Fnesn.com%2F2017%2F06%2Flook-away-celtics-fans-markelle-fultz-rocks-lakers-gear-in-workout%2F

This means even Fultz' team is uncertain whether Danny drafts him or not.

I'm starting to think this is a ploy to try and get the Lakers to offer up some assets to move up in the draft.

Think about it: if Danny knew that LA gave Jackson a promise and was set on him, he might be having this leaked out there to try and make LA think that we'll take Jackson over Fultz. If they really are set on Jackson, then maybe they'd offer up something to move to the first pick.

Granted, what that would be is beyond me. I'd imagine all of Ingram, Clarkson, Randle, and Russell are either off the table or not wanted by Danny. Zubac would be interesting, but he's redundant with Zizic.

Larry Nance Jr. would be an interesting and cheap bench big for us. But is it really worth it just for that?

Perhaps this is just a self-defense mechanism of me making up theories trying to convince myself that Danny would never make such a terrible decision like this. 

I doubt it. LA would gladly take Fultz over Jackson if he's available.

Maybe Danny doesn't see much talent/fit gap between Fultz and Jackson and have no problem taking either of them. Danny is probably trying to exploit teams that wanted Fultz so badly.

[jbp126]

This is just pure speculation from a GM who likes to talk (probably Daryl Morey). Total click bait headline that doesn't deserve much discussion.