Author Topic: Fultz is overrated  (Read 38312 times)

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Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2017, 02:37:39 PM »

Offline Moranis

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Try and think of an 18 year old with an offensive game like Fultz in the last 20 years in the ncaa.


Theres a strong argument that he's the best college scoring guard with that kind of size and 3 point stroke and pick and roll intuition in the last 20 years.

Some special players have 'it'. A natural scoring ability and something in their DNA that makes the toughest shots look easy.
He's one of those guys and he does it not just in the paint but from deep and mid range.
He's an offensive prodigy.

D'Angelo Russell?
Irving is the better comp.  Can do anything he wants with the basketball offensively.  Can score from anywhere at virtually any time.  Like Irving, Fultz is prone to some of the same mistakes offensively and also like Irving isn't a very good defender (though like Irving has the skills to get better).
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Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2017, 02:48:47 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Try and think of an 18 year old with an offensive game like Fultz in the last 20 years in the ncaa.


Theres a strong argument that he's the best college scoring guard with that kind of size and 3 point stroke and pick and roll intuition in the last 20 years.

Some special players have 'it'. A natural scoring ability and something in their DNA that makes the toughest shots look easy.
He's one of those guys and he does it not just in the paint but from deep and mid range.
He's an offensive prodigy.

D'Angelo Russell?
Irving is the better comp.  Can do anything he wants with the basketball offensively.  Can score from anywhere at virtually any time.  Like Irving, Fultz is prone to some of the same mistakes offensively and also like Irving isn't a very good defender (though like Irving has the skills to get better).

I think Fultz is better off the ball than Irving while Irving is craftier with the dribble. I think Fultz has better defensive tools than Irving due to his size, length, and better lateral movement.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2017, 02:55:47 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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Fultz is actually Underrated Just because he isn't westbrook explosive and flashy. For example, fultz has elite passing skills yet no one notices.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2017, 02:57:21 PM »

Offline snively

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Try and think of an 18 year old with an offensive game like Fultz in the last 20 years in the ncaa.


Theres a strong argument that he's the best college scoring guard with that kind of size and 3 point stroke and pick and roll intuition in the last 20 years.

Some special players have 'it'. A natural scoring ability and something in their DNA that makes the toughest shots look easy.
He's one of those guys and he does it not just in the paint but from deep and mid range.
He's an offensive prodigy.

D'Angelo Russell?
Irving is the better comp.  Can do anything he wants with the basketball offensively.  Can score from anywhere at virtually any time.  Like Irving, Fultz is prone to some of the same mistakes offensively and also like Irving isn't a very good defender (though like Irving has the skills to get better).

I like him better than Irving. Not as polished a shooter (Irving never missed at Duke - even more incredible shotmaker than Fultz), but so much bigger that it gives him superior potential across the board - rebounding, man D, defensive playmaking, post play... Unrelated to size, I think he's a better passer.

His floor might be a little lower because of the lesser polish, but a higher ceiling.
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Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2017, 02:59:13 PM »

Offline gouki88

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The reasons listed above by other posters (TP's incoming  ;D ) are the reasons why Fultz is the highest rated guard prospect since Wall, not since Irving.
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Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2017, 03:12:22 PM »

Offline droopdog7

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Obviously whether he is overrated depends on what the expectations are in the first place.  Fultz is not a generational prospect like Lebron (duh) or Duncan.  He may not even be a prospect on the level of Anthony Davis.  But these guys (minus Lebron) are at least within reach. 

He could be as good as Wall, Rose, Kyrie, and other guards at number #1.  Fultz is different that each of these stars; does some things worse, some things better.  For instance, Fultz is not as explosive as any of those three.  But he makes up for it in others ways; being shifty, change of pace, etc.  Fultz is also considerably bigger than Kyrie and longer than Rose and Wall.  He can also shoot better than Wall and Rose at the same stage. 

Is Fultz a guaranteed super duper star?  Not sure I would go that far.  But he might be.  And at worse, we're probably talking Damian Lillard.  Highest floor and highest ceiling.  What else can we ask for.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2017, 03:28:06 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.



I don't think choked badly is a good assessment of his performance vs. Wash St. He had a terrible turnover but he also had a huge block on a big man the possession before.


This from ESPN report game summary in the 79-74 loss to State:

Quote
[But after carrying Washington for most of the second half, Fultz went scoreless in the final 2 1/2 minutes. After taking a 71-67 lead, Washington missed four straight shots and had a key turnover during a stretch where Flynn was fantastic./quote]


Choked? Maybe, maybe not, but he certainly didn't step up when the team neede him AND he couldn't finish going to the hole in the waning seconds of the game to tie.

My point was that that game amongst others was illustrative of my second point of concern that I have had about Fultz: I have never seen him step up in a game of any significance with the game on the line.

That in-state rivalry close game was the closest to a "pressure" situation that he faced all year.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #37 on: June 09, 2017, 03:32:09 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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It feels like people are so scared that he might not be everything that they want him to be that they are trying to talk themselves out of taking him. At the end of the day for me if he is similar and provides similar value as Irving Im fine with that. I would be happy with that. Im not sure if guys like that can lead you to a title but I will say the fact that he is almost 6'5 makes me not certain he could impact the game more along the Wade level meaning that his size wont limit his ability to score as much as some other guards.

Ultimately, I think he can be a great piece to an elite team. I think he makes it easier to form a title team. I think if he commits to being a two way player the sky is really the limit.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2017, 03:37:33 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.



I don't think choked badly is a good assessment of his performance vs. Wash St. He had a terrible turnover but he also had a huge block on a big man the possession before.


This from ESPN report game summary in the 79-74 loss to State:

Quote
[But after carrying Washington for most of the second half, Fultz went scoreless in the final 2 1/2 minutes. After taking a 71-67 lead, Washington missed four straight shots and had a key turnover during a stretch where Flynn was fantastic./quote]


Choked? Maybe, maybe not, but he certainly didn't step up when the team neede him AND he couldn't finish going to the hole in the waning seconds of the game to tie.

My point was that that game amongst others was illustrative of my second point of concern that I have had about Fultz: I have never seen him step up in a game of any significance with the game on the line.

That in-state rivalry close game was the closest to a "pressure" situation that he faced all year.


Here is the game for people to watch for themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKTPj9h6q7k

The guy had almost a triple double in the game and we are going to kill him over the last 2 min.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2017, 03:47:27 PM »

Offline snively

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Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.



I don't think choked badly is a good assessment of his performance vs. Wash St. He had a terrible turnover but he also had a huge block on a big man the possession before.


This from ESPN report game summary in the 79-74 loss to State:

Quote
[But after carrying Washington for most of the second half, Fultz went scoreless in the final 2 1/2 minutes. After taking a 71-67 lead, Washington missed four straight shots and had a key turnover during a stretch where Flynn was fantastic.


Choked? Maybe, maybe not, but he certainly didn't step up when the team neede him AND he couldn't finish going to the hole in the waning seconds of the game to tie.

My point was that that game amongst others was illustrative of my second point of concern that I have had about Fultz: I have never seen him step up in a game of any significance with the game on the line.

That in-state rivalry close game was the closest to a "pressure" situation that he faced all year.

Just go rewatch it. It wasn't a choke. He didn't win it for them, but he was in there fighting, making defensive plays and attacking the rim. That loss was all on Dickerson (who was also one of the biggest reasons they were bad - a rebounder/post guy with no range who was horrific defensively).

You can also see the Nevada game on Youtube which was also close. Fultz missed some shots down the stretch but he also had a clutch o-Reb and nailed free throws to tie it before Nevada hit a crazy off-balance runner at the buzzer to win it.
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Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2017, 03:47:39 PM »

Offline Smokeeye123

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#34 wasn't very athletic either

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2017, 04:04:36 PM »

Offline KG Living Legend

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#34 wasn't very athletic either




 Guys Fultz is very athletic. He can dunk from the free throw line at 6'4". He's way more athletic than Harden.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2017, 04:14:23 PM »

Offline csfansince60s

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Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.



I don't think choked badly is a good assessment of his performance vs. Wash St. He had a terrible turnover but he also had a huge block on a big man the possession before.


This from ESPN report game summary in the 79-74 loss to State:

Quote
[But after carrying Washington for most of the second half, Fultz went scoreless in the final 2 1/2 minutes. After taking a 71-67 lead, Washington missed four straight shots and had a key turnover during a stretch where Flynn was fantastic.


Choked? Maybe, maybe not, but he certainly didn't step up when the team neede him AND he couldn't finish going to the hole in the waning seconds of the game to tie.

My point was that that game amongst others was illustrative of my second point of concern that I have had about Fultz: I have never seen him step up in a game of any significance with the game on the line.

That in-state rivalry close game was the closest to a "pressure" situation that he faced all year.

Just go rewatch it. It wasn't a choke. He didn't win it for them, but he was in there fighting, making defensive plays and attacking the rim. That loss was all on Dickerson (who was also one of the biggest reasons they were bad - a rebounder/post guy with no range who was horrific defensively).

You can also see the Nevada game on Youtube which was also close. Fultz missed some shots down the stretch but he also had a clutch o-Reb and nailed free throws to tie it before Nevada hit a crazy off-balance runner at the buzzer to win it.

I will rewatch it tonight when I get a chance. Probably because I am more interested in that than I am in these Finals with some team I dislike and one I dislike more.

And TP for you persistence!

I just remember being disappointed in the last couple of minutes.


Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #43 on: June 09, 2017, 04:14:33 PM »

Online johnnygreen

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Danny should take the best player available, regardless of need, and from all accounts that is Fultz. Having said that, I have had my doubts since I have seen him play. He seems slow for a PG, doesn't create enough separation for uncontested shots, seemed uninterested in defending, and didn't seem to create easier shots for his teammates. It is one thing to pass to an open man, but another thing altogether to create open looks for your team.

I hate to bring this up again, but that 9-16 record with him as a starter just jumps out to me. It seems virtually impossible for the consensus number 1 pick to be on a team that can't win 10 games. Don't tell me his teammates were not good, or that Washington couldn't recruit. Going back to last year draft, Washington had Marquesse Chriss drafted #8 and Dejounte Murray #29. They have the consensus #1 pick this coming draft. Before opting out of his previous commitment, Washington had signed the consensus #1 in next year's draft class. Not many teams in the country can come close to that 3 year run of recruiting.

Re: Fultz is overrated
« Reply #44 on: June 09, 2017, 04:25:13 PM »

Offline clevelandceltic

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Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.



I don't think choked badly is a good assessment of his performance vs. Wash St. He had a terrible turnover but he also had a huge block on a big man the possession before.


This from ESPN report game summary in the 79-74 loss to State:

Quote
[But after carrying Washington for most of the second half, Fultz went scoreless in the final 2 1/2 minutes. After taking a 71-67 lead, Washington missed four straight shots and had a key turnover during a stretch where Flynn was fantastic.


Choked? Maybe, maybe not, but he certainly didn't step up when the team neede him AND he couldn't finish going to the hole in the waning seconds of the game to tie.

My point was that that game amongst others was illustrative of my second point of concern that I have had about Fultz: I have never seen him step up in a game of any significance with the game on the line.

That in-state rivalry close game was the closest to a "pressure" situation that he faced all year.

Just go rewatch it. It wasn't a choke. He didn't win it for them, but he was in there fighting, making defensive plays and attacking the rim. That loss was all on Dickerson (who was also one of the biggest reasons they were bad - a rebounder/post guy with no range who was horrific defensively).

You can also see the Nevada game on Youtube which was also close. Fultz missed some shots down the stretch but he also had a clutch o-Reb and nailed free throws to tie it before Nevada hit a crazy off-balance runner at the buzzer to win it.

My link to that game got a little screwed up so here it is:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKTPj9h6q7k