Fultz is overrated

[incoherent]

Hey OP.. Ever heard of a guy named Paul Pierce? 

He brought us a championship by using his body and being methodical and under controlled.

Hey OP? Ever seen Terry Rozier play?  He's more quick and explosive then Fultz.  He's also out of control quite often.

Quickness and explosiveness is only good if you know how to use it, and not even needed if you have great body control and basketball IQ.

[Celtics18]

Try and think of an 18 year old with an offensive game like Fultz in the last 20 years in the ncaa.


Theres a strong argument that he's the best college scoring guard with that kind of size and 3 point stroke and pick and roll intuition in the last 20 years.

Some special players have 'it'. A natural scoring ability and something in their DNA that makes the toughest shots look easy.
He's one of those guys and he does it not just in the paint but from deep and mid range.
He's an offensive prodigy.

D'Angelo Russell?

[Celtics18]

Hey OP.. Ever heard of a guy named Paul Pierce? 

He brought us a championship by using his body and being methodical and under controlled.

Hey OP? Ever seen Terry Rozier play?  He's more quick and explosive then Fultz.  He's also out of control quite often.

Quickness and explosiveness is only good if you know how to use it, and not even needed if you have great body control and basketball IQ.

To an extent what you say is true, but quickness and explosiveness sure do help.

[ETNCeltics]

Fortune smiles on us in the form of the #1 pick and the best guard prospect in years, and some fans are like, 'nah, gimme the mediocre type prospects Danny usually has to mine the middle of the 1st round for.'

[The One]

Hey OP.. Ever heard of a guy named Paul Pierce? 

He brought us a championship by using his body and being methodical and under controlled.

Hey OP? Ever seen Terry Rozier play?  He's more quick and explosive then Fultz.  He's also out of control quite often.

Quickness and explosiveness is only good if you know how to use it, and not even needed if you have great body control and basketball IQ.

Rozier...king of the million dollar moves and ten cent finishes.

[Celtics18]

Fortune smiles on us in the form of the #1 pick and the best guard prospect in years, and some fans are like, 'nah, gimme the mediocre type prospects Danny usually has to mine the middle of the 1st round for.'

As far as I can tell, I'm the only one expressing concerns about the kid.  I'm not saying he's a scrub by any means.  Personally, I think Jackson will be a better pro in the long run, though.

I like Jackson's two way ability, his athleticism, and I think there is a smoothness to his on-the-ball game which, while still somewhat rudimentary, will blossom when he gets to the next level.

[The One]

If we are looking for a "leader", seems we would all be taking Ball, who clearly has more of a leadership personality than Fultz.  Fultz leads by example, through his talent.  Personality similar to Klay Thompson, or Kyrie Irving. 

But there is no denying his high level of talent.

Leaders are most needed when the pressure is greatest...according to his U18 resume...Markelle has what it takes.

"There's a couple guys I've seen over the years who get better when there's more pressure and more at stake, and he's one of them," BJ Johnson, assistant director of USA Basketball, told SB Nation. "I heard a comment on the bench from one of the players to just put the ball in his hands. When you have that level of respect from a group of kids that can really play, he's in a great situation to be a natural leader."

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/7/27/12285436/markelle-fultz-nba-draft-2017-fiba-americas-u18

[chilidawg]

Fortune smiles on us in the form of the #1 pick and the best guard prospect in years, and some fans are like, 'nah, gimme the mediocre type prospects Danny usually has to mine the middle of the 1st round for.'

As far as I can tell, I'm the only one expressing concerns about the kid.  I'm not saying he's a scrub by any means.  Personally, I think Jackson will be a better pro in the long run, though.

I like Jackson's two way ability, his athleticism, and I think there is a smoothness to his on-the-ball game which, while still somewhat rudimentary, will blossom when he gets to the next level.

You're not the only one, I share the same concerns.  We're definitely a minority though, and not well tolerated.

Bottom line is that it doesn't matter what any of us think, it matters what DA thinks.  If we draft Fultz I'll be very happy to be proven wrong.

[csfansince60s]

Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.

[chilidawg]

Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.

Good summary, I had many of the same observations. Although I probably didn't watch as many games as you did, I did see a number of games and came away from the college season thinking Ball was a better player.  Like you the post season prospect analysis has me thinking better of Fultz, but if I were going with my gut, based on what I saw, I'd go with Ball.

[gouki88]

Try and think of an 18 year old with an offensive game like Fultz in the last 20 years in the ncaa.


Theres a strong argument that he's the best college scoring guard with that kind of size and 3 point stroke and pick and roll intuition in the last 20 years.

Some special players have 'it'. A natural scoring ability and something in their DNA that makes the toughest shots look easy.
He's one of those guys and he does it not just in the paint but from deep and mid range.
He's an offensive prodigy.

D'Angelo Russell?

Not at all on the same level as Fultz.

[csfansince60s]

Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.

Good summary, I had many of the same observations. Although I probably didn't watch as many games as you did, I did see a number of games and came away from the college season thinking Ball was a better player.  Like you the post season prospect analysis has me thinking better of Fultz, but if I were going with my gut, based on what I saw, I'd go with Ball.

Thanks, 🌶 chili and good Ball insight by you.

Kids a leader, I've like him all year too, as you and I have discussed in the past. Makes everyone around him better

[snively]

Let me preface my post with saying that I was a non-believer and have been slowly won over to drafting Fultz #1 and keeping him.

That being said, TP to the OP for his minority viewpoint.

I watched a lot of the PAC-12 Network this winter and a lot of featured PAC-12 games on other networks, because of Ball and the 'Zona kids (Markkanen, Simmons, Trier and Alkins), Rabb and Fultz.

Here are various concerns that I had regarding Fultz throughout the year at various times, some that I still have and some that have been dispelled (as far as I'm concerned) and some that can be argued are his fault, at least in part and some maybe not:

1. HIS team sucked, really sucked. (Blame?: Fultz, Romar, teammates lack of talent, all of these?)

2. Fultz was RARELY in an in-game pressure situation this year. How will he perform in such?
In one such situation in a tight game vs in-state rival WA ST,  he choked. Badly.

3. Sat out his last 4-5 games. What does this mean? Knee issues? Protecting his future? Quitter?
Being smart.

4. Didn't do real well head to head vs quality opponents. (Empty stats?)

5. Doesn't seem to be a truly elite athlete.

Elite offensive skills, great defensive potential based on size alone for his position and uncanny basketball instincts say to me that he has the potential to be a transcendent player. If Danny believes that, he's ours. In DA I trust.

I don't think choked badly is a good assessment of his performance vs. Wash St. He had a terrible turnover but he also had a huge block on a big man the possession before.

Noah Dickerson was the real offender in that game. Got burned by Hawkinson once, then refused to leave him to help at the rim giving Flynn a wide open lay-up, then bumbled his way into a switch taking Fultz off Flynn and then got burned outrageously badly by Flynn in iso for another lay-up. And then on the other end, Hawkinson totally ignored him  to help on Fultz' two big missed drives at the end.

[clevelandceltic]

I think its really hard to get an idea of who a player is based upon seeing a guy 2 or 3 times in a college setting. In most cases you are going in with a preconceived notion about the player and then asses the player from that vantage point. To really get an idea of who a player is you have to extend your viewing over a course of 2 maybe 3 years. You might say well I dont like that he is this or is subpar doing that but what did the player look like 2 or 3 years ago and what do they look like now. These things are important.

I honestly dont know how one can complete a full picture of a player based on some highlight tapes. Those tapes can give you an idea of some of the players abilities but never present a full picture.

I would say that most people on here love Brown at this point but if you only saw 2 maybe 3 games of his in college you wouldnt share the same opinion as you do today. This is proven by the great level of hate for the pick on draft day and Im not talking about from the crowd that wanted to trade the pick. I saw Brown play close to 40 times between his junior year in HS to the end of his college career. His college play did not resemble virtually any parts of his HS game. Problem was spacing. 2nd problem ball handling. Anyways, you only watched him in college 2 or 3 times you missed many of the skills that he showed this year.

With that being said Fultz is not perfect and his team did suck but you are looking for what skills does this player posses that will translate to the next level. His PnR game surely will but I love that his shot is greatly improved from HS. His improvement over a short period of time is what is highly impressive in my book.

I think he will be a fine player as a pro with a chance to be great. His overall game has less holes than other prospects considered in the top 6 therefore Im not likely to move this pick.

[footey]

Is there any player in the draft who has demonstrated an elite ability to score in virtually every way imaginable?

Fultz

Anyone else?

Not to my knowledge.

What has Danny repeatedly stated, for several years as his top objective was for player profile? Getting dudes who can score.

Would be shocked if Danny trades the pick or does not pick Fultz.