Author Topic: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??  (Read 3274 times)

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How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« on: June 08, 2017, 01:53:48 PM »

Offline Green-18

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Let's throw away the CBA for this discussion because most of our ideas are probably unrealistic for the players association to accept.  However, I am interested in hearing how people would change salary cap rules in order to maintain a better competitive balance.  My new stipulations are listed below.  Super Max contract wouldn't exist under these rules.  I am sure that there are glaring flaws in my new rules.

1.  No team can go above the salary cap for more than one max player.  There are two specific exceptions.

    a. There are no limitations to max deals if all players were drafted by their original team (Golden State would have been able to keep their original core together)

    b. Bird rights still exist for all players on a team unless that team decides to sign an outside max contract free agent.  The decision to sign an outside free agent will result in a team only being allowed to sign one more max deal within their existing core.  Once the outside free agent has reached year 3 of the contract then rule will reset itself.

I'm sure I didn't write this very well so I will give some examples of how the new rules could affect current teams.

Golden State - They could have kept the original core together before the Durant signing.  After signing KD they can only give max money to one player within the original core.  The new rules would have removed Golden State from the Durant equation.

Cleveland - For arguments sake I am pretending these rules existed during the year LeBron went back to Cleveland.  The Cavs could have still maxed out Kyrie but the Kevin Love trade wouldn't have been able to work.  They would have needed to keep their draft pick and take Wiggins.  The good news for Cleveland is that they could max out Wiggins now because LeBron would have reached his 3rd year with the Cavs. 

Boston Celtics - The Celtics could have signed Horford and still made a run at Hayward because they would be under the cap.  However, the decision to sign both would result in IT losing his Bird Rights.  This most likely result in us only signing one max deal.

I am interested to hear everyone's ideas.  The only problem I am having is in regards to rules for non-max free agents.  A perfect example is a guy like Tristan Thompson.  He didn't sign a max deal with the Cavs so I'm not sure how the LeBron signing would affect the Cavs ability to still resign him.


Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2017, 02:01:22 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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Very simple solution for the ultimate in competitive balance:

* Hard cap.  No exceptions.  No team can go over it.
* No max on an individual player.  You want to spend 50% of your cap on Durant.  Be my guest.

Problem solved.  But, I think the NBA likes superteams and wouldn't go for this.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2017, 02:06:24 PM »

Offline Green-18

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Very simple solution for the ultimate in competitive balance:

* Hard cap.  No exceptions.  No team can go over it.
* No max on an individual player.  You want to spend 50% of your cap on Durant.  Be my guest.

Problem solved.  But, I think the NBA likes superteams and wouldn't go for this.

My only problem with this is the fact that teams who drafted at en elite level wouldn't necessarily be rewarded.  The Warriors probably couldn't keep their original core together under a hard cap.  I am fine with Bird Rights but I believe there needs to be some tweaking due to the major increase in the cap.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2017, 02:06:41 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career  (except their rookie contract). 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2017, 02:13:10 PM »

Offline Green-18

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career. 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Do you feel that this penalizes teams who drafted at an elite level?  The front and back loading could address this to an extent but I think too many teams would have their core ripped apart.  I don't think a system like the NFL would work as well in the NBA.  I believe that the NBA should have rules that encourage continuity within an existing core.  The problem is that it shouldn't be so easy to bring in outside players at max money while still retaining your existing team.  I completely agree with non-guaranteed contracts though! Every sport would be better if contract weren't guaranteed.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2017, 02:17:13 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career. 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Do you feel that this penalizes teams who drafted at an elite level?  The front and back loading could address this to an extent but I think too many team would have their core ripped apart.  I don't think a system like the NFL would work as well in the NBA.  I believe that the NBA should have rules that encourage continuity within an existing core.  The problem is that it shouldn't be so easy to bring in outside players at max money while still retaining your existing team.

No, I think this give teams more then one path to contending vs. the need to tank for picks.   


And I think it allows the top players to earn more money while the player who has outplayed their contract has a chance to be paid for what they provide while in their prime. 


Teams that a better drafters, their advantage is finding useful players on rookie contracts leaving more cap room to go after the better vets. 

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2017, 02:20:47 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career  (except their rookie contract). 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Ugh, I would hate those changes.  I find the salary cap in basketball much more interesting that football, which is where you'd largely take us.

Boring.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2017, 02:23:29 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career  (except their rookie contract). 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Ugh, I would hate those changes.  I find the salary cap in basketball much more interesting that football, which is where you'd largely take us.

Boring.


Since I don't find "salary caps" all that exciting and the NFL has better competitive balance, I don't have an issue.


The NBA could still have all the trade they currently have minus the total need to make salaries match.


Also different is giving the players the chance to opt out of a contract if they outplay it. 

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2017, 02:48:14 PM »

Offline libermaniac

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Very simple solution for the ultimate in competitive balance:

* Hard cap.  No exceptions.  No team can go over it.
* No max on an individual player.  You want to spend 50% of your cap on Durant.  Be my guest.

Problem solved.  But, I think the NBA likes superteams and wouldn't go for this.

My only problem with this is the fact that teams who drafted at en elite level wouldn't necessarily be rewarded.  The Warriors probably couldn't keep their original core together under a hard cap.  I am fine with Bird Rights but I believe there needs to be some tweaking due to the major increase in the cap.
It depends what the goal is.  If it's competitive balance, this solve it.  True it would downgrade the importance of rookie deals, but it would do that for every team.  Again, the NBA doesn't necessarily want that.  They like the super teams, so this would never happen.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2017, 02:51:57 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career  (except their rookie contract). 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Ugh, I would hate those changes.  I find the salary cap in basketball much more interesting that football, which is where you'd largely take us.

Boring.
Since I don't find "salary caps" all that exciting and the NFL has better competitive balance, I don't have an issue.

The NBA could still have all the trade they currently have minus the total need to make salaries match.

Also different is giving the players the chance to opt out of a contract if they outplay it. 
not sure allowing players to opt out on a front-loaded contract should be allowed or is a good idea. 

also, without a salary cap, the NBA becomes like baseball where you have the have's and the have-not's.  one of the things I really dislike about the league.  teams with larger cash flow can bid for the Lebron's in free agency whereas small market teams won't be able to lure big time free agents. in the NBA moreso than baseball, the top players dominate the game.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2017, 02:58:00 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career  (except their rookie contract). 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Ugh, I would hate those changes.  I find the salary cap in basketball much more interesting that football, which is where you'd largely take us.

Boring.
Since I don't find "salary caps" all that exciting and the NFL has better competitive balance, I don't have an issue.

The NBA could still have all the trade they currently have minus the total need to make salaries match.

Also different is giving the players the chance to opt out of a contract if they outplay it. 
not sure allowing players to opt out on a front-loaded contract should be allowed or is a good idea. 

also, without a salary cap, the NBA becomes like baseball where you have the have's and the have-not's.  one of the things I really dislike about the league.  teams with larger cash flow can bid for the Lebron's in free agency whereas small market teams won't be able to lure big time free agents. in the NBA moreso than baseball, the top players dominate the game.

That's why I said "hard cap"

Obvious is a player opted out of a front loaded contract, he would have to give back a pro-rated portion of that contract. 

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2017, 03:15:39 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Similar cap rules to what we have now (exceptions, minimum contracts, Bord Rights, etc.), but no max contracts.  A superstar like Lebron should be getting paid way more than a barely-max player like Al Horford, but the rules don't let that happen (and no, supermax contracts do not solve that).  If OKC wanted to sign KD for something like $35 million, they should have been able to.  Teams that manage the cap well and have lots of cap room, or draft/trade well to get the Bird Rights of superstars, should be rewarded by being able to offer them whatever they want.  Luxury tax would still be a thing, so teams would still need to be careful, but there would be way fewer super teams if guys like Lebron and Durant had to give up legitimate amounts of money (like $10 million or $20 million a year instead of a few million over 4 years)

Of course, this will never happen, because it takes money directly from 90% of NBA players and gives it to superstars instead. A lesser version of this would be to keep maxes how they are and increase minimum/exception/rookie salaries significantly, making a team with a few maxes and then all traditionally cheap contracts more expensive, but that would just move money from the "middle class" of NBA players to the lower end, which is similarly unlikely to happen.
I'm bitter.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2017, 03:16:17 PM »

Offline saltlover

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Hard cap


No max salaries.


No fully guaranteed contracts. 


Players are allowed to opt out of their contract once in their career  (except their rookie contract). 


Allow teams to front load or back load contracts.

Ugh, I would hate those changes.  I find the salary cap in basketball much more interesting that football, which is where you'd largely take us.

Boring.


Since I don't find "salary caps" all that exciting and the NFL has better competitive balance, I don't have an issue.


The NBA could still have all the trade they currently have minus the total need to make salaries match.


Also different is giving the players the chance to opt out of a contract if they outplay it.

The NFL's "competitive balance" is due to the randomness of a short season, 1-game playoff rounds, and "competitive balance" scheduling that allows the worst teams in the league to face each other the next year, and the best teams face each other, thus artificially affecting potential win totals of the bottom and top teams every season.  That and the injury-inducing chaos of the violent contact that is football.  The salary cap simply helps team owners make budgets.

Baseball has no salary cap and a very weak luxury tax, and sees a ton of year-to-year turnover at the top as well.

Let me enjoy my salary cap.  It's what brought me to the sport!

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2017, 03:18:50 PM »

Offline BitterJim

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Let's throw away the CBA for this discussion because most of our ideas are probably unrealistic for the players association to accept.  However, I am interested in hearing how people would change salary cap rules in order to maintain a better competitive balance.  My new stipulations are listed below.  Super Max contract wouldn't exist under these rules.  I am sure that there are glaring flaws in my new rules.

1.  No team can go above the salary cap for more than one max player.  There are two specific exceptions.

    a. There are no limitations to max deals if all players were drafted by their original team (Golden State would have been able to keep their original core together)

    b. Bird rights still exist for all players on a team unless that team decides to sign an outside max contract free agent.  The decision to sign an outside free agent will result in a team only being allowed to sign one more max deal within their existing core.  Once the outside free agent has reached year 3 of the contract then rule will reset itself.

I'm sure I didn't write this very well so I will give some examples of how the new rules could affect current teams.

Golden State - They could have kept the original core together before the Durant signing.  After signing KD they can only give max money to one player within the original core.  The new rules would have removed Golden State from the Durant equation.

Cleveland - For arguments sake I am pretending these rules existed during the year LeBron went back to Cleveland.  The Cavs could have still maxed out Kyrie but the Kevin Love trade wouldn't have been able to work.  They would have needed to keep their draft pick and take Wiggins.  The good news for Cleveland is that they could max out Wiggins now because LeBron would have reached his 3rd year with the Cavs. 

Boston Celtics - The Celtics could have signed Horford and still made a run at Hayward because they would be under the cap.  However, the decision to sign both would result in IT losing his Bird Rights.  This most likely result in us only signing one max deal.

I am interested to hear everyone's ideas.  The only problem I am having is in regards to rules for non-max free agents.  A perfect example is a guy like Tristan Thompson.  He didn't sign a max deal with the Cavs so I'm not sure how the LeBron signing would affect the Cavs ability to still resign him.

Couldn't teams get around this by paying guys less than a max contract (say, $1 or $100k under)? Or would teams with more than 1 max be prohibited from using cap space to sign anyone (and instead be forced to use exceptions, like teams over the cap are now)?
I'm bitter.

Re: How would you change max contracts and/or bird rights??
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2017, 03:36:12 PM »

Offline Moranis

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only thing I'd change is the player individual max per year (still keep a 5 year limit but unlimited dollars per year). 
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