Poll

Which is the greatest team in NBA history?

1964-65 Boston Celtics (Russell, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Tommy)
7 (10.4%)
1971-72 L.A. Lakers (Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich)
1 (1.5%)
1985-86 Boston Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish, Bill Walton, Dennis Johnson)
38 (56.7%)
1986-87 L.A. Lakers (Magic, Kareem, James Worthy)
1 (1.5%)
1995-96 Chicago Bulls (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc)
8 (11.9%)
2001-02 L.A. Lakers (Shaq, Kobe)
0 (0%)
2016-17 Golden State Warriors (Durant, Curry, Green, Klay Thompson)
12 (17.9%)
other (please specify below)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 67

Author Topic: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?  (Read 15308 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #45 on: June 05, 2017, 08:35:05 PM »

Offline slightly biased bias fan

  • Bill Walton
  • *
  • Posts: 1198
  • Tommy Points: 310
The perfect summation of Golden State vs the rest of the league this year


Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2017, 08:40:30 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
well, based on the list provided, the 86 celtics. 

I'd take any of the Celtic or Laker teams from 80-87 against anyone who came after them and any Philly team from 80-85 as well. 

GSW may have a lot of shooters but C's have a frontline none of the other teams could deal with when healthy

I said in a thread prior that it all depends on the rules of the era.

If we played by 1986 rules, Boston would likely sweep GS. They simply couldn't handle the physical differences of hand checking, pushing, shoving, elbows and so forth that came about when only two refs were on the court. They'd be manhandled right off the court with no free looks at the 22 foot 3 point line.

Played by today's rules, the 86 Celtics would be lucky to extend the series to 6. GS would get a lot of clean looks and while Boston would still clean up on the boards, they'd be shooting 2 pointers at a 55% clip while GS would be hitting 3s at a 40% clip. Parrish would have to get out of the lane or 3 seconds would be called every time. GS would slowly pull away and as the Celtics got into foul trouble they'd sprint away.

I'd pay good money to see a good McHale clothesline on Draymond or DJ ripping Curry's foolish mouthpiece out of his mouth (seriously, what is the guy a 2-year old?  No one wants to see that!)
so would I.  GSW won't get much shooting from their all-stars when they're on the bench in foul trouble trying to guard Mchale and Parish in the post.  Bird would pick them apart with his passing and shooting.  DJ and Ainge would do a credible job on Curry and Klay--particularly Klay. 

C's frontline would have trouble guarding Green and Durant on the perimeter but not in the paint.  GSW's offense would only last so long because C's would just jam the ball into the paint and they'd definitely own the defensive and offensive boards against that GSW line-up

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2017, 09:17:55 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

  • NCE
  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 995
  • Tommy Points: 57
Warriors play in the gimmicky era of NBA basketball. They are the masters of this era but cannot compete with the Champions of past eras under proper rules.

I cannot consider such a team the greatest of all time.

They are, however, the greatest team of this new era for NBA basketball.

Apparently the ability to put the ball in the basket and prevent the other team from doing so is now a gimmick... fascinating.

I am pretty he is referring to not allowing to handcheck at all, players getting awarded 3 points from throwing the ball in the air from half court, players kicking their legs out while shooting to draw contact, complete mockery of palming and traveling calls. Some of the changes are good, but other ones are bad. (Which is one of the reasons that the commissioner has talked about addressing a rule change for some of the foul calls behind the arc this offseason.

 However, instead of addressing this very real change in the way the game has been called over different eras you did another one of your snide comments that adds nothing to the conversation. I really used to enjoy some of your posts on the 76ers but this seems to be all you do now. I don't understand for the life of me why you do it.

That's because this absurd argument isn't worth dignifying. The 86 Celtics for example would get roasted on defense, teams in the 80s weren't built to chase 5 3 Pt shooters off the line. You think McHale, Bird and Parish are running with this team?

For all the whining about hand checking it's pretty funny to me that the Warriors are an elite defensive team without getting to hand check and everyone just pretends like that's a one way street. Not to mention the scheme the 80s NBA teams run are built around stopping teams that shot like a half dozen 3s a game. The entire league basically utilized Byron Scott's playbook.

But yes, chest thumping nostalgic stupidity is clearly a coherent argument. It's like whining that Tom Brady doesn't run the triple option as if that's at all relevant.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2017, 09:19:56 PM »

Offline RAAAAAAAANDY

  • NCE
  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 995
  • Tommy Points: 57
well, based on the list provided, the 86 celtics. 

I'd take any of the Celtic or Laker teams from 80-87 against anyone who came after them and any Philly team from 80-85 as well. 

GSW may have a lot of shooters but C's have a frontline none of the other teams could deal with when healthy

I said in a thread prior that it all depends on the rules of the era.

If we played by 1986 rules, Boston would likely sweep GS. They simply couldn't handle the physical differences of hand checking, pushing, shoving, elbows and so forth that came about when only two refs were on the court. They'd be manhandled right off the court with no free looks at the 22 foot 3 point line.

Played by today's rules, the 86 Celtics would be lucky to extend the series to 6. GS would get a lot of clean looks and while Boston would still clean up on the boards, they'd be shooting 2 pointers at a 55% clip while GS would be hitting 3s at a 40% clip. Parrish would have to get out of the lane or 3 seconds would be called every time. GS would slowly pull away and as the Celtics got into foul trouble they'd sprint away.

I'd pay good money to see a good McHale clothesline on Draymond or DJ ripping Curry's foolish mouthpiece out of his mouth (seriously, what is the guy a 2-year old?  No one wants to see that!)
so would I.  GSW won't get much shooting from their all-stars when they're on the bench in foul trouble trying to guard Mchale and Parish in the post.  Bird would pick them apart with his passing and shooting.  DJ and Ainge would do a credible job on Curry and Klay--particularly Klay. 

C's frontline would have trouble guarding Green and Durant on the perimeter but not in the paint.  GSW's offense would only last so long because C's would just jam the ball into the paint and they'd definitely own the defensive and offensive boards against that GSW line-up

Yes, because if there's one thing the evolution of basketball has proven it's that offenses jamming a bunch of people into the post because they can't shoot 3s is clearly a recipe for an explosive offense. Stop with this nonsense.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2017, 09:40:29 PM »

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33652
  • Tommy Points: 1549
There are certainly arguments for this, especially if they sweep or win in 5 (I still think it goes at least 6, but who knows).  Curry and Durant have won the last three league MVP's (though not this year).  They are two of the most dynamic offensive players in league history and are credible enough defensively (Durant is better than credible).  Thompson, who hasn't really showed up offensively, is also a very dynamic offensive player and a superb wing defender.  Green is the dirty work do everything player that all great teams have.  They have a very good top end of the bench with players for every type of situation.  Under modern rules no team touches them, and even under the old style, their overall shooting prowess will just be problematic for most teams. I mean how does Harper or Kerr guard Curry. Can Bird really stay with Durant?  Obviously it works the other way as well, especially with the size down low, but I'm just not sure the older teams can keep up with the shooting of the Warriors.

Wouldn't Jordan guard Curry? If so, that's not good for Curry because he probably gets baited into taking the challenge until his confidence is lost (Curry is prone to this). Harper could guard Thompson. Pippen could check Durant about as well as any player ever could. Pippen might be the one guy in history you'd pick to guard Kevin Durant.
I don't think Jordan had the speed to guard Curry, even with hand checking.  I mean that only works if you are up on the player, and I just don't see Jordan being able to keep Curry in front of him.  I also think Harper would struggle with Thompson, though he would be able to handle him easier than Curry.  And making Jordan move around that much, would greatly diminish his offense.  Jordan was a superb defender, but much like Lebron he often took plays off defensively to stay fresher offensively. 

Pippen would struggle with Durant.  His length, speed, and athleticism would be a lot to handle, even for someone as good defensively as Pippen.  Players like Durant just didn't exist in any other era.  Bird was one of the few really long SF's of the older times and he was no where near the athlete Durant is (Bird was a nastier player though and had an IQ almost unrivaled). 

I don't think the Warriors would have any issues matching up well with the Bulls.  A team with a monster down low would pose a lot more problems.  I mean there is no way the Warriors could defend Shaq, Hakeem, McHale, Kareem, Moses, etc. in their prime.  That is where a true mismatch would lie and those teams would have a shot at keeping up with the Warriors frentic pace, because they would be able to score a lot of high percentage shots, would force the Warriors to keep a big on the floor, and would draw a lot of fouls.

Pippen wouldn't shut Durant down. But he'd probably defend him better than anyone ever has.

Early 90s Jordan has sufficient speed plus physicality to guard Curry. Curry isn't quick enough to get by Jordan if Jordan wants to keep him in front of him. He's only a driving threat because of his shot, and he really wants to shoot more than anything. He'll get his points, but he'll probably mess up the offense and play inefficiently in the process. Look at last night's game for an example. He scored, but alienated Thompson and turned the ball over. And that's while being guarded by lesser defensive opponents than Jordan. He's been guarded successfully on the perimeter by Matthew Dellavedova and once on a key play by Kevin Love. Sure he'll put his goggles on and smile with that mouthpiece sticking out here and there, but Jordan is absolutely bad news for Curry on the whole.

Be careful not to mix and match your Jordans here.  There's a difference between 28 year old Jordan and 32 year old Jordan.

Hey if you're arguing for the '92 Bulls, then you're fine, but you can't use that Jordan when talking about the '96 Bulls.
yep and that 92 team was much weaker overall with Grant instead of Rodman and no Kukoc, Harper, or Kerr.  I mean is BJ Armstrong or John Paxson guarding Curry or Thompson at all.  No way.  Cartwright was a dinosaur and would struggle even guarding Pachulia let alone anyone else on the Warriors. How does Scott Williams, Trent Tucker, or Stacey King sound on the bench? 

I've had this discussion in a lot of threads on here recently but 90's basketball was downright awful on the whole.  The second 3 peat was a very strong overall team but they had no competition at all and thus truly are hard to judge historically.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2017, 09:42:13 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58797
  • Tommy Points: -25627
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
Quote
You think McHale, Bird and Parish are running with this team?

Running wouldn't be a problem. The Celtics played at a faster pace than the Warriors, and routinely faced teams playing more quickly than the Dubs.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #51 on: June 05, 2017, 09:42:55 PM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
well, based on the list provided, the 86 celtics. 

I'd take any of the Celtic or Laker teams from 80-87 against anyone who came after them and any Philly team from 80-85 as well. 

GSW may have a lot of shooters but C's have a frontline none of the other teams could deal with when healthy

I said in a thread prior that it all depends on the rules of the era.

If we played by 1986 rules, Boston would likely sweep GS. They simply couldn't handle the physical differences of hand checking, pushing, shoving, elbows and so forth that came about when only two refs were on the court. They'd be manhandled right off the court with no free looks at the 22 foot 3 point line.

Played by today's rules, the 86 Celtics would be lucky to extend the series to 6. GS would get a lot of clean looks and while Boston would still clean up on the boards, they'd be shooting 2 pointers at a 55% clip while GS would be hitting 3s at a 40% clip. Parrish would have to get out of the lane or 3 seconds would be called every time. GS would slowly pull away and as the Celtics got into foul trouble they'd sprint away.

I'd pay good money to see a good McHale clothesline on Draymond or DJ ripping Curry's foolish mouthpiece out of his mouth (seriously, what is the guy a 2-year old?  No one wants to see that!)
so would I.  GSW won't get much shooting from their all-stars when they're on the bench in foul trouble trying to guard Mchale and Parish in the post.  Bird would pick them apart with his passing and shooting.  DJ and Ainge would do a credible job on Curry and Klay--particularly Klay. 

C's frontline would have trouble guarding Green and Durant on the perimeter but not in the paint.  GSW's offense would only last so long because C's would just jam the ball into the paint and they'd definitely own the defensive and offensive boards against that GSW line-up

Yes, because if there's one thing the evolution of basketball has proven it's that offenses jamming a bunch of people into the post because they can't shoot 3s is clearly a recipe for an explosive offense. Stop with this nonsense.
obviously you've never paid attention to how the game was played until after Shaq retired.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #52 on: June 05, 2017, 10:04:43 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43591
  • Tommy Points: 3178
Quote
You think McHale, Bird and Parish are running with this team?

Running wouldn't be a problem. The Celtics played at a faster pace than the Warriors, and routinely faced teams playing more quickly than the Dubs.

Before McHale broke that foot he could literally guard anyone...

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #53 on: June 05, 2017, 10:16:44 PM »

Offline celticsclay

  • Reggie Lewis
  • ***************
  • Posts: 15930
  • Tommy Points: 1395
Quote
You think McHale, Bird and Parish are running with this team?

Running wouldn't be a problem. The Celtics played at a faster pace than the Warriors, and routinely faced teams playing more quickly than the Dubs.

Before McHale broke that foot he could literally guard anyone...

Ahh guys randy thinks you just have nostalgia.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #54 on: June 05, 2017, 10:23:10 PM »

Offline Ogaju

  • Bill Sharman
  • *******************
  • Posts: 19479
  • Tommy Points: 1871
Quote
You think McHale, Bird and Parish are running with this team?

Running wouldn't be a problem. The Celtics played at a faster pace than the Warriors, and routinely faced teams playing more quickly than the Dubs.

Before McHale broke that foot he could literally guard anyone...

Ahh guys randy thinks you just have nostalgia.

I believe that where the 1986 team wins this game is with the second unit. That 1986 second unit known famously as the 'Green Team' was pretty good. If the starting units play to a push, then the Green Team wins it for Boston.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #55 on: June 05, 2017, 10:27:50 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43591
  • Tommy Points: 3178
Quote
You think McHale, Bird and Parish are running with this team?

Running wouldn't be a problem. The Celtics played at a faster pace than the Warriors, and routinely faced teams playing more quickly than the Dubs.

Before McHale broke that foot he could literally guard anyone...

Ahh guys randy thinks you just have nostalgia.

McHale could guard Dominic Wilkens...

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #56 on: June 05, 2017, 10:31:43 PM »

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43591
  • Tommy Points: 3178
Quote
You think McHale, Bird and Parish are running with this team?

Running wouldn't be a problem. The Celtics played at a faster pace than the Warriors, and routinely faced teams playing more quickly than the Dubs.

Before McHale broke that foot he could literally guard anyone...

Ahh guys randy thinks you just have nostalgia.

I believe that where the 1986 team wins this game is with the second unit. That 1986 second unit known famously as the 'Green Team' was pretty good. If the starting units play to a push, then the Green Team wins it for Boston.

That bench had Scott Wedman, Bill Walton, Sichting, Kite, Sam Vincent as well as a little Rick Carlisle.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #57 on: June 06, 2017, 07:49:15 AM »

Offline JohnBoy65

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 916
  • Tommy Points: 132
well, based on the list provided, the 86 celtics. 

I'd take any of the Celtic or Laker teams from 80-87 against anyone who came after them and any Philly team from 80-85 as well. 

GSW may have a lot of shooters but C's have a frontline none of the other teams could deal with when healthy

I said in a thread prior that it all depends on the rules of the era.

If we played by 1986 rules, Boston would likely sweep GS. They simply couldn't handle the physical differences of hand checking, pushing, shoving, elbows and so forth that came about when only two refs were on the court. They'd be manhandled right off the court with no free looks at the 22 foot 3 point line.

Played by today's rules, the 86 Celtics would be lucky to extend the series to 6. GS would get a lot of clean looks and while Boston would still clean up on the boards, they'd be shooting 2 pointers at a 55% clip while GS would be hitting 3s at a 40% clip. Parrish would have to get out of the lane or 3 seconds would be called every time. GS would slowly pull away and as the Celtics got into foul trouble they'd sprint away.

I'd pay good money to see a good McHale clothesline on Draymond or DJ ripping Curry's foolish mouthpiece out of his mouth (seriously, what is the guy a 2-year old?  No one wants to see that!)
so would I.  GSW won't get much shooting from their all-stars when they're on the bench in foul trouble trying to guard Mchale and Parish in the post.  Bird would pick them apart with his passing and shooting.  DJ and Ainge would do a credible job on Curry and Klay--particularly Klay. 

C's frontline would have trouble guarding Green and Durant on the perimeter but not in the paint.  GSW's offense would only last so long because C's would just jam the ball into the paint and they'd definitely own the defensive and offensive boards against that GSW line-up

Yes, because if there's one thing the evolution of basketball has proven it's that offenses jamming a bunch of people into the post because they can't shoot 3s is clearly a recipe for an explosive offense. Stop with this nonsense.
obviously you've never paid attention to how the game was played until after Shaq retired.

If everyone plays the same style someone has to be considered successful whether it's efficient/effective or not.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #58 on: June 06, 2017, 08:30:30 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
well, based on the list provided, the 86 celtics. 

I'd take any of the Celtic or Laker teams from 80-87 against anyone who came after them and any Philly team from 80-85 as well. 

GSW may have a lot of shooters but C's have a frontline none of the other teams could deal with when healthy

I said in a thread prior that it all depends on the rules of the era.

If we played by 1986 rules, Boston would likely sweep GS. They simply couldn't handle the physical differences of hand checking, pushing, shoving, elbows and so forth that came about when only two refs were on the court. They'd be manhandled right off the court with no free looks at the 22 foot 3 point line.

Played by today's rules, the 86 Celtics would be lucky to extend the series to 6. GS would get a lot of clean looks and while Boston would still clean up on the boards, they'd be shooting 2 pointers at a 55% clip while GS would be hitting 3s at a 40% clip. Parrish would have to get out of the lane or 3 seconds would be called every time. GS would slowly pull away and as the Celtics got into foul trouble they'd sprint away.

I'd pay good money to see a good McHale clothesline on Draymond or DJ ripping Curry's foolish mouthpiece out of his mouth (seriously, what is the guy a 2-year old?  No one wants to see that!)
so would I.  GSW won't get much shooting from their all-stars when they're on the bench in foul trouble trying to guard Mchale and Parish in the post.  Bird would pick them apart with his passing and shooting.  DJ and Ainge would do a credible job on Curry and Klay--particularly Klay. 

C's frontline would have trouble guarding Green and Durant on the perimeter but not in the paint.  GSW's offense would only last so long because C's would just jam the ball into the paint and they'd definitely own the defensive and offensive boards against that GSW line-up

Yes, because if there's one thing the evolution of basketball has proven it's that offenses jamming a bunch of people into the post because they can't shoot 3s is clearly a recipe for an explosive offense. Stop with this nonsense.
obviously you've never paid attention to how the game was played until after Shaq retired.

If everyone plays the same style someone has to be considered successful whether it's efficient/effective or not.
no doubt.  GSW is the most successful team in this style of play that's taken over the NBA recently.  the thing is, when comparing teams across eras, the capabilities of the players on the teams should be taken into account.

GSW is geared towards the type of play in the game today which is bomb away from outside.  probably the best team at doing that on the list of options provided to select from.  that doesn't mean the other teams are devoid of shooters that could play bombs-away as well.

they also have a pretty solid fastbreak team as well.  They're not the fastest team on the break but they're all very solid finishers (and even better than 'solid').  I wouldn't rate them as good as the Laker teams of the 80's but the Celtic teams of the 80's were at least as good in this aspect as GSW.

the style where GSW comes up short in regards to the older teams is half-court basketball.  The earlier teams are geared towards that style.  GSW, not so much.  Who would play in the post for GSW to draw fouls?  no one I could see other than Durant who'd likely be covered by Mchale for the Celtics since he took the better offensive forward.  Bird would render Green useless on the offensive boards.  Zaza wouldn't have a chance against Chief.  DJ and Danny would be up to the task of keeping Curry and Klay out of the paint on drives if they tried to although I'd think they'd mostly stay on the perimeter which helps provide the defenders with an area to focus on.  sure, GSW bigs would draw the C's bigs out of the paint on offense which may open up lanes for drives but DJ was a top defender and Ainge was more than solid --> Curry and Klay aren't exactly speedsters that would blow by either of them. 

I'd love to see the matchup if it could happen but I'll take the C's and Lakers of the 80's over GSW every time.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #59 on: June 06, 2017, 08:57:07 AM »

Offline Somebody

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7816
  • Tommy Points: 560
  • STAND FIRM, SAY NO TO VIBE MEN
guys how about Russell's 60s teams? I'm a generation Z guy but I'm still awed by their dominance.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA