Poll

Which is the greatest team in NBA history?

1964-65 Boston Celtics (Russell, Havlicek, Sam Jones, Tommy)
7 (10.4%)
1971-72 L.A. Lakers (Wilt Chamberlain, Jerry West, Gail Goodrich)
1 (1.5%)
1985-86 Boston Celtics (Bird, McHale, Parish, Bill Walton, Dennis Johnson)
38 (56.7%)
1986-87 L.A. Lakers (Magic, Kareem, James Worthy)
1 (1.5%)
1995-96 Chicago Bulls (Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc)
8 (11.9%)
2001-02 L.A. Lakers (Shaq, Kobe)
0 (0%)
2016-17 Golden State Warriors (Durant, Curry, Green, Klay Thompson)
12 (17.9%)
other (please specify below)
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 67

Author Topic: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?  (Read 15163 times)

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Re: Which is the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2017, 01:09:50 PM »

Offline CFAN38

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It's so tough to rank teams especially in different eras. Golden State plays a brand of basketball no one has seen before. I try to think of matchups. 2000 Shaq wouldn't be able to play in a series against GS. Who would he gaurd? Larry bird would guard Klay right, but who would guard KD on that 85 Celtics team.

I am not sure there's another team in NBA History that has presented this type of matchup challenge with the lineups Golden State can put out there.

Why wouldn't Shaq be able to play against GS?  He'd guard Zaza and Javale during their combined 30 minutes before they both foul out.  Then what, GS tries to put David West or Draymond on him?

You might be forgetting how dominant Shaq was in 2000.  Looking back in the box scores:
Game 1 -- 43 points (21/31 shooting), 19 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits fouled out in only 20 minutes.
Game 2 -- 40 points (11/18 shooting), 24 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits committed 5 fouls in 18 minutes.
I'm not going to post all of them (those were 2 of his best 3 games), but he averaged 38.7ppg and 16.7rpg that series while playing 45.5 min per game (he wasn't the slow tired Shaq we saw in Boston).  Rik Smits could only stay on the floor 19.3 min per game.

TP. People strangely associate Shaq with being some lumbering dinosaur. Maybe when he was in his late 30's but in his prime Shaq was a beast. And he wasn't all dunks too.

A young Shaq would have forced the Warriors to play big or risk Green fouling out. Shaq would have conceded the 3 and payed for it but the war on attrition would have gone shaqs way.

Its interesting but in the near future a players like KAT and Embiid may be better served focusing on their post game as a way to over take the Warriors. 1 versatile post dominate big along with four A+ perimeter defenders who can shoot may be the only plan for taking out the Warriors.
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Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2017, 01:10:34 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Not even close! Basketball equivalent of the recency effect is on full display.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2017, 01:11:05 PM »

Offline hpantazo

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Tough to comp teams across eras

in the 80s the Cs and Lakers teams would destroy golden state inside

in the modern NBA the Warriors run them off the court

All comes down to how the games are called and what rules are allowed. Hand checking and greater physicality would take a lot away from Curry and Durant.

On the other hand, players like Bird, MJ, Magic, even OG IT would score a heck of a lot more in today's NBA with modern rules

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2017, 01:16:01 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Tough to comp teams across eras

in the 80s the Cs and Lakers teams would destroy golden state inside

in the modern NBA the Warriors run them off the court

All comes down to how the games are called and what rules are allowed. Hand checking and greater physicality would take a lot away from Curry and Durant.


On the other hand, players like Bird, MJ, Magic, even OG IT would score a heck of a lot more in today's NBA with modern rules

Imagine Bird with 8 3's attempted per game instead of 2. My goodness.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2017, 01:22:51 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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Not even close! Basketball equivalent of the recency effect is on full display.

Agreed ......im old an seen alot of basketball greats and their best  ...... THE ICE MAN ......DR J .....Shaq .....Magic /Kareem......Moses Malone ......The Dream ......

The Warrior other than Green would be crushed by the power teams f the 70 s and 80 s ......especiaclly playing under old rules .   Cav s would be better suited than Warriors to playnthe old Bullets , Rockets, Celtics , Bucks , Bulls , Knicks and Lakers of old ......those teams were loaded with giant physical players .  Not many of todays playets could survive in their eras.  Wade , Draymond Green, Smart ,  Rondo ,  Marc Gasol, Leonard,  Drummond , Townes , Embiid , guys like this would be playing


sorry , but he Knicks and Bullets tuff guys would have made short work of KD ....they would have picked on his skinny frame big time ....he would not lasted two games without broken ribs....they would have beat him silly ,  he d been out with injuries after two games .  I suspect without the new and kind political correct NBA.....Curry would have been taken out by bigger tuffer guards of the day .  MJ was beat up and pounded every game . 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2017, 01:33:32 PM by SHAQATTACK »

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2017, 01:26:24 PM »

Offline Moranis

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There are certainly arguments for this, especially if they sweep or win in 5 (I still think it goes at least 6, but who knows).  Curry and Durant have won the last three league MVP's (though not this year).  They are two of the most dynamic offensive players in league history and are credible enough defensively (Durant is better than credible).  Thompson, who hasn't really showed up offensively, is also a very dynamic offensive player and a superb wing defender.  Green is the dirty work do everything player that all great teams have.  They have a very good top end of the bench with players for every type of situation.  Under modern rules no team touches them, and even under the old style, their overall shooting prowess will just be problematic for most teams.  I mean how does Harper or Kerr guard Curry.  Can Bird really stay with Durant?  Obviously it works the other way as well, especially with the size down low, but I'm just not sure the older teams can keep up with the shooting of the Warriors.
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2017, 01:39:53 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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There are certainly arguments for this, especially if they sweep or win in 5 (I still think it goes at least 6, but who knows).  Curry and Durant have won the last three league MVP's (though not this year).  They are two of the most dynamic offensive players in league history and are credible enough defensively (Durant is better than credible).  Thompson, who hasn't really showed up offensively, is also a very dynamic offensive player and a superb wing defender.  Green is the dirty work do everything player that all great teams have.  They have a very good top end of the bench with players for every type of situation.  Under modern rules no team touches them, and even under the old style, their overall shooting prowess will just be problematic for most teams.  I mean how does Harper or Kerr guard Curry.  Can Bird really stay with Durant?  Obviously it works the other way as well, especially with the size down low, but I'm just not sure the older teams can keep up with the shooting of the Warriors.

many guys could have stayed with Durrant.   in their era ....you could push , grab, han chrck , elbow , head butt and about anything else.....before the game was watered down for children and made a family sport for TV.   ...other words violence was eliminated.   

Durrant would have been greater in the 50 s and early 60 s .  When just tall became BIG and tall the game changed .   Parish , Bird and Walton could have dealt woth skinny Brittle bird legs Durrant , no problem . 

Re: Which is the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2017, 01:43:15 PM »

Offline gift

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It's so tough to rank teams especially in different eras. Golden State plays a brand of basketball no one has seen before. I try to think of matchups. 2000 Shaq wouldn't be able to play in a series against GS. Who would he gaurd? Larry bird would guard Klay right, but who would guard KD on that 85 Celtics team.

I am not sure there's another team in NBA History that has presented this type of matchup challenge with the lineups Golden State can put out there.

Why wouldn't Shaq be able to play against GS?  He'd guard Zaza and Javale during their combined 30 minutes before they both foul out.  Then what, GS tries to put David West or Draymond on him?

You might be forgetting how dominant Shaq was in 2000.  Looking back in the box scores:
Game 1 -- 43 points (21/31 shooting), 19 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits fouled out in only 20 minutes.
Game 2 -- 40 points (11/18 shooting), 24 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits committed 5 fouls in 18 minutes.
I'm not going to post all of them (those were 2 of his best 3 games), but he averaged 38.7ppg and 16.7rpg that series while playing 45.5 min per game (he wasn't the slow tired Shaq we saw in Boston).  Rik Smits could only stay on the floor 19.3 min per game.

TP. People strangely associate Shaq with being some lumbering dinosaur. Maybe when he was in his late 30's but in his prime Shaq was a beast. And he wasn't all dunks too.

A young Shaq would have forced the Warriors to play big or risk Green fouling out. Shaq would have conceded the 3 and payed for it but the war on attrition would have gone shaqs way.

Its interesting but in the near future a players like KAT and Embiid may be better served focusing on their post game as a way to over take the Warriors. 1 versatile post dominate big along with four A+ perimeter defenders who can shoot may be the only plan for taking out the Warriors.

Yeah, people tend to remember the old, plodding Shaq. Prime Shaq was capable of scoring more efficiently against this GS team than Curry/Durant over the course of a series. Your only shot of lowering his efficiency is fouling, but there's only so much you can do. Kobe would have had one or two GS players in foul trouble on his own on most nights anyway.

Look at games 1+2 of the Finals so far. See how effective Lebron is when he gets to the basket? Well, Shaq would do the same except he wouldn't expend all of his energy doing it because he could just post up and receive an entry pass.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2017, 01:44:10 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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hate to say it but I like Shaq and Kobe chances too. .....play n old NBA rules anyway.

inthis sissy era of FLAG Basketball .....every touch is a foul .....teams of old would struggle.

I don't even think Warriors would have wantd to play the old Bullets, Bucks , 76 ers ......LOL

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #24 on: June 05, 2017, 01:50:51 PM »

Offline gift

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There are certainly arguments for this, especially if they sweep or win in 5 (I still think it goes at least 6, but who knows).  Curry and Durant have won the last three league MVP's (though not this year).  They are two of the most dynamic offensive players in league history and are credible enough defensively (Durant is better than credible).  Thompson, who hasn't really showed up offensively, is also a very dynamic offensive player and a superb wing defender.  Green is the dirty work do everything player that all great teams have.  They have a very good top end of the bench with players for every type of situation.  Under modern rules no team touches them, and even under the old style, their overall shooting prowess will just be problematic for most teams. I mean how does Harper or Kerr guard Curry. Can Bird really stay with Durant?  Obviously it works the other way as well, especially with the size down low, but I'm just not sure the older teams can keep up with the shooting of the Warriors.

Wouldn't Jordan guard Curry? If so, that's not good for Curry because he probably gets baited into taking the challenge until his confidence is lost (Curry is prone to this). Harper could guard Thompson. Pippen could check Durant about as well as any player ever could. Pippen might be the one guy in history you'd pick to guard Kevin Durant.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2017, 01:52:30 PM »

Offline green_bballers13

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hate to say it but I like Shaq and Kobe chances too. .....play n old NBA rules anyway.

inthis sissy era of FLAG Basketball .....every touch is a foul .....teams of old would struggle.

I don't even think Warriors would have wantd to play the old Bullets, Bucks , 76 ers ......LOL

You talk about hand checking etc as if its good for the game. What if Durant or another player is too quick for a defender, and the only way they can be stopped is through "rough play" (ie fouling).

Re: the OP, I think they're the best shooting team ever put together. I think this team beats any of MJ's Bulls teams.

Re: Are the 2016-17 Warriors the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2017, 02:06:50 PM »

Offline Celtics17

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I never understand why when comparing eras people always assume that the older team could not play the same game as the newer team? Bird could shoot threes with anyone ever and that includes Curry. Ainge would compete well with Klay too.

The 86 C's were the best team I have seen play. They held MJ to 5 points through the 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters of  the deciding game of the series. Which other team can say that? If a team can do that they can contend with Curry and Durant. Durant would have his hands full with Bird and McHale would Green alive. DJ was one of the best backcourt defenders ever and Walton would destroy anyone on GS. The series would go 6 but GS is not winning that series just because they shoot the three ball.

Re: Which is the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2017, 02:07:19 PM »

Offline JohnBoy65

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It's so tough to rank teams especially in different eras. Golden State plays a brand of basketball no one has seen before. I try to think of matchups. 2000 Shaq wouldn't be able to play in a series against GS. Who would he gaurd? Larry bird would guard Klay right, but who would guard KD on that 85 Celtics team.

I am not sure there's another team in NBA History that has presented this type of matchup challenge with the lineups Golden State can put out there.

Why wouldn't Shaq be able to play against GS?  He'd guard Zaza and Javale during their combined 30 minutes before they both foul out.  Then what, GS tries to put David West or Draymond on him?

You might be forgetting how dominant Shaq was in 2000.  Looking back in the box scores:
Game 1 -- 43 points (21/31 shooting), 19 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits fouled out in only 20 minutes.
Game 2 -- 40 points (11/18 shooting), 24 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits committed 5 fouls in 18 minutes.
I'm not going to post all of them (those were 2 of his best 3 games), but he averaged 38.7ppg and 16.7rpg that series while playing 45.5 min per game (he wasn't the slow tired Shaq we saw in Boston).  Rik Smits could only stay on the floor 19.3 min per game.

TP. People strangely associate Shaq with being some lumbering dinosaur. Maybe when he was in his late 30's but in his prime Shaq was a beast. And he wasn't all dunks too.

A young Shaq would have forced the Warriors to play big or risk Green fouling out. Shaq would have conceded the 3 and payed for it but the war on attrition would have gone shaqs way.

Its interesting but in the near future a players like KAT and Embiid may be better served focusing on their post game as a way to over take the Warriors. 1 versatile post dominate big along with four A+ perimeter defenders who can shoot may be the only plan for taking out the Warriors.

Yeah, people tend to remember the old, plodding Shaq. Prime Shaq was capable of scoring more efficiently against this GS team than Curry/Durant over the course of a series. Your only shot of lowering his efficiency is fouling, but there's only so much you can do. Kobe would have had one or two GS players in foul trouble on his own on most nights anyway.

Look at games 1+2 of the Finals so far. See how effective Lebron is when he gets to the basket? Well, Shaq would do the same except he wouldn't expend all of his energy doing it because he could just post up and receive an entry pass.

Except last night with Draymond in foul trouble KD played a lot at the 5 and with Iggy at the 4. No way Shaq can guard KD in today's game no matter how old he was. Obviously KD can't defend a back to the basket Shaq, so the question becomes who scores more efficiently it's KD every time. Also, Golden State wouldn't play Zaza and McGee if they were facing an in his prime Shaq.

Re: Which is the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2017, 02:13:24 PM »

Offline cousytoheinsohn

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86 Celtics.  5 of their top 6 are in the HOF, and Ainge was a heck of a player.

Ditto and double ditto. And, thanks for remembering how great Danny was as a player. It was all too easy for him to get lost in the shuffle of that truly authentic greatness.

I rate the Russ, Tommy, Sam and Hondo gang as a close second. They simultaneously could run with these Dubs and play lock-down defense.

Among a myriad of magical ingredients, D.J.'s defense would stand out against the Dubs. I'm laughing right now imagining how badly he would shut down Steph and the consequent look on Steph's pretty-boy face.

Nothing against, Steph or the Dubs. I actually like them. They are a great team, without question. And, we shouldn't forget the mostly over-looked but deeply significant role Jerry West, Mr. Laker himself, has played in building the veritable monster currently on display.

While we are engaged in the current retrospective, we shouldn't fail to remember how great the Big Bill Walton-iteration of the Trail Blazers was in the process of winning it all in 77. Led by the coaches's coach, Jack Ramsay, the Blazers were probably even better the next year before Bill sadly went down with the foot injury and the ominous harbinger of the direction his career would be taking. When healthy, which wasn't often, he was as good a center as has ever played.


Re: Which is the greatest team in NBA history?
« Reply #29 on: June 05, 2017, 02:30:11 PM »

Offline gift

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It's so tough to rank teams especially in different eras. Golden State plays a brand of basketball no one has seen before. I try to think of matchups. 2000 Shaq wouldn't be able to play in a series against GS. Who would he gaurd? Larry bird would guard Klay right, but who would guard KD on that 85 Celtics team.

I am not sure there's another team in NBA History that has presented this type of matchup challenge with the lineups Golden State can put out there.

Why wouldn't Shaq be able to play against GS?  He'd guard Zaza and Javale during their combined 30 minutes before they both foul out.  Then what, GS tries to put David West or Draymond on him?

You might be forgetting how dominant Shaq was in 2000.  Looking back in the box scores:
Game 1 -- 43 points (21/31 shooting), 19 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits fouled out in only 20 minutes.
Game 2 -- 40 points (11/18 shooting), 24 reb, 4 ast, 3 blk, 2 to.  Smits committed 5 fouls in 18 minutes.
I'm not going to post all of them (those were 2 of his best 3 games), but he averaged 38.7ppg and 16.7rpg that series while playing 45.5 min per game (he wasn't the slow tired Shaq we saw in Boston).  Rik Smits could only stay on the floor 19.3 min per game.

TP. People strangely associate Shaq with being some lumbering dinosaur. Maybe when he was in his late 30's but in his prime Shaq was a beast. And he wasn't all dunks too.

A young Shaq would have forced the Warriors to play big or risk Green fouling out. Shaq would have conceded the 3 and payed for it but the war on attrition would have gone shaqs way.

Its interesting but in the near future a players like KAT and Embiid may be better served focusing on their post game as a way to over take the Warriors. 1 versatile post dominate big along with four A+ perimeter defenders who can shoot may be the only plan for taking out the Warriors.

Yeah, people tend to remember the old, plodding Shaq. Prime Shaq was capable of scoring more efficiently against this GS team than Curry/Durant over the course of a series. Your only shot of lowering his efficiency is fouling, but there's only so much you can do. Kobe would have had one or two GS players in foul trouble on his own on most nights anyway.

Look at games 1+2 of the Finals so far. See how effective Lebron is when he gets to the basket? Well, Shaq would do the same except he wouldn't expend all of his energy doing it because he could just post up and receive an entry pass.

Except last night with Draymond in foul trouble KD played a lot at the 5 and with Iggy at the 4. No way Shaq can guard KD in today's game no matter how old he was. Obviously KD can't defend a back to the basket Shaq, so the question becomes who scores more efficiently it's KD every time. Also, Golden State wouldn't play Zaza and McGee if they were facing an in his prime Shaq.

I honestly think MVP Shaq scores 9 times out of 10 guarded by Durant and/or fouls him out. The occasional trap and step back three by Durant would leave him in a net deficit efficiency. So actually, I think Shaq forces GS to play Zaza and McGee at the 5 just to allow themselves a chance at matching his efficiency.