Dynasty Bulls vs Warriors

[bdm860]

Today's rules = GSW wins. They are built to take advantage of today's rules. 90s Bulls are not.

90s rules = Chicago runs riot over GSW as would vast majority of other previous Champions.

I would like to throw in another wrinkle to this argument.  What if Chicago is given a full off-season to review film and adapt to the changes in the modern game?  This means new offensive sets within the triangle and lots of guys working on their three ball.

Are you giving them 2017 strength & conditioning also?

Do you really think there have been changes in the strength & conditioning fields over the last 20 years that give the Warriors an edge?

I would guess the strength & conditioning the Warriors players are doing is practically identical to what the Bulls players would have done save for personal preferences.

Sure.  Do you think the 80s Celtics under  the strength & conditioning of that day could run with the players in today's NBA?

There's been so pretty big advances in sports science in the past 20-30 years.    You just have to look at these players versus the guys who played 20 years ago to see that.

Well now you're going back even further.

80's to today, I would say yes, but this would be more so with the equipment (like padding in the sneakers) and general attitudes towards smoking, alcohol, and cocaine.

90's to today, I would say no (or at least it's minimal).

Do you also think there's a change from 10 years ago today?

Diet and exercise hasn't changed much for top notch athletes in the last 20 years.  Any examples of what you think has changed?

[johnnygreen]

The Warriors could win one or two games, but not a series against those Bulls teams. Jordan could take his game to a level that no one could approach. With no hand checking, who could guard him and not be in constant foul trouble? Any three point advantage the Warriors had, would be offset by the parade at the free throw line the Bulls would enjoy. No way Draymond Green could play a full game with Dennis Rodman guarded him. Dennis Rodman would outwork Green and get into his head easily. Plus the Bulls had a killer instinct (Jordan in particular) that the Warriors lack. BTW, if Green ever kicked Jordan in the nuts, the Warriors would never win a game against the Bulls again as long as Jordan was playing.

[RAAAAAAAANDY]

Warriors would win in 5.

This pull your bootstraps up nonsense is cute, but edge doesn't win games. Putting the ball in the basket does.

[oldtype]

MJ would score 50 a game. Warriors would win the series.

[hpantazo]

Today's rules = GSW wins. They are built to take advantage of today's rules. 90s Bulls are not.

90s rules = Chicago runs riot over GSW as would vast majority of other previous Champions.

I would like to throw in another wrinkle to this argument.  What if Chicago is given a full off-season to review film and adapt to the changes in the modern game?  This means new offensive sets within the triangle and lots of guys working on their three ball.

Are you giving them 2017 strength & conditioning also?

Do you really think there have been changes in the strength & conditioning fields over the last 20 years that give the Warriors an edge?

I would guess the strength & conditioning the Warriors players are doing is practically identical to what the Bulls players would have done save for personal preferences.

Sure.  Do you think the 80s Celtics under  the strength & conditioning of that day could run with the players in today's NBA?

There's been so pretty big advances in sports science in the past 20-30 years.    You just have to look at these players versus the guys who played 20 years ago to see that.

Well now you're going back even further.

80's to today, I would say yes, but this would be more so with the equipment (like padding in the sneakers) and general attitudes towards smoking, alcohol, and cocaine.

90's to today, I would say no (or at least it's minimal).

Do you also think there's a change from 10 years ago today?

Diet and exercise hasn't changed much for top notch athletes in the last 20 years.  Any examples of what you think has changed?

HGH and related substances use

[Big333223]

Today's rules = GSW wins. They are built to take advantage of today's rules. 90s Bulls are not.

90s rules = Chicago runs riot over GSW as would vast majority of other previous Champions.

This.

New defensive rules would make Rodman an offensive liability. In the 90's he couldn't really score but in the 10's his defender could basically leave him alone in the corner to make all of Jordan and Pippen's drives more difficult. They'd have to play a lot more Kukoc.

Against the Warriors, though, they could maybe get away with Kukoc at the 4 and Rodman at the 5. That doesn't solve the problem on offense but it might make them one of the best suitde teams to defend the Warriors if all time.

The other thing to think about, if we're playing modern rules, is: do Jordan and Pippen develop 3 point shots? If not, they're toast.

By 90's rules, though, the Warriors get pushed around, beat up on the boards, and their motion offense is much less effective against the man defense they'd face. Klay would be hurt the most because I think he's still pretty weak off the dribble. KD would probably still be a monster.

[Moranis]

Obviously Jordan would be a terribly tough matchup to defend, but Thompson, Iguodala, and Durant are about as good a trio as you would find, the more interesting question to me is who is guarding Curry, Thompson, and Durant?  Can Jordan keep up with Curry?  If not, that means someone like Ron Harper or ironically Steve Kerr is guarding Curry, good luck with that.  If Jordan can stick on Curry, then Thompson gets the mismatch with Harper or Kerr.   Also, I have doubts that Pippen has the speed to stay with Durant.  Durant is a special kind of athlete that there just weren't many of in the 90's. 

I can't think of a single team the Bulls played that would force both Pippen and Jordan to play both ends of the floor all game long (the Sonics were probably the closest with Payton, Hawkins, and Schrempf).  Almost all of their opponents in the Finals and entire Eastern playoffs really only had 1 tough wing/guard matchup, so Jordan and Pippen could swap off defensively saving them more for offense and even Rodman would get in on the defense for the bigger wings on occasion. 

I'd be surprised if the Warriors didn't win under either set of rules (assuming they were still bombing 3's) because they would just be too hard for the Bulls to defend, especially on the perimeter, and unlike some of the other teams of that era, the Bulls had no one down low that could create a mismatch.  I mean it isn't like Shaq, Ewing, Robinson, Hakeem, etc. was playing for the Bulls.  Even a guy like Karl Malone would cause so many issues for the Warriors under the older rules.  The Bulls just don't have that player on either 3 peat as Ho Grant was the best they had to offer down low. 

[KGs Knee]

Bulls in 6.  No one can defend Jordan, especially if you can't hand check him.  Jordan would have the Warriors peeing in their pants as he averages 40 ppg.

[Moranis]

Bulls in 6.  No one can defend Jordan, especially if you can't hand check him.  Jordan would have the Warriors peeing in their pants as he averages 40 ppg.

how do the Bulls get to 120 points per game because that is what it would take to win

[KGs Knee]

Bulls in 6.  No one can defend Jordan, especially if you can't hand check him.  Jordan would have the Warriors peeing in their pants as he averages 40 ppg.

how do the Bulls get to 120 points per game because that is what it would take to win

Nah, you're selling the defensive acumen of Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Harper way short, the true calling card of those Bulls teams.  Those four were all world class defenders who could easily play team defense under today's rules.  They would be a better version of GSW's 'switch everything' defense.

[Moranis]

Bulls in 6.  No one can defend Jordan, especially if you can't hand check him.  Jordan would have the Warriors peeing in their pants as he averages 40 ppg.

how do the Bulls get to 120 points per game because that is what it would take to win

Nah, you're selling the defensive acumen of Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Harper way short, the true calling card of those Bulls teams.  Those four were all world class defenders who could easily play team defense under today's rules.  They would be a better version of GSW's 'switch everything' defense.

there is no way 34 year old Harper could guard either Curry or Thompson, none at all.  I don't think Pippen could stay with Durant either.  Jordan would do fine on Thompson, but I'm not sure he had the speed to stay with Curry.  Rodman would do fine on Green, but I don't think he could guard Durant and I don't think Jordan had the length to either.  I just don't see the Bulls shutting down Durant or Curry, and given just how good of shooters they are, I see the Warriors easily scoring 110+ every single game under modern rules.  Now with hand checking, muscling up, etc. of the 90's, it would be a much more interesting series, but at the end of the day, I'd take the Warriors shooters every time. 

[cousytoheinsohn]

I'll take the 84 and/or 86, Celtics seven days a week and twice on Sundays, modern rules or old school rules.

Jus sayin'.

[KGs Knee]

Bulls in 6.  No one can defend Jordan, especially if you can't hand check him.  Jordan would have the Warriors peeing in their pants as he averages 40 ppg.

how do the Bulls get to 120 points per game because that is what it would take to win

Nah, you're selling the defensive acumen of Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, and Harper way short, the true calling card of those Bulls teams.  Those four were all world class defenders who could easily play team defense under today's rules.  They would be a better version of GSW's 'switch everything' defense.

there is no way 34 year old Harper could guard either Curry or Thompson, none at all.  I don't think Pippen could stay with Durant either.  Jordan would do fine on Thompson, but I'm not sure he had the speed to stay with Curry.  Rodman would do fine on Green, but I don't think he could guard Durant and I don't think Jordan had the length to either.  I just don't see the Bulls shutting down Durant or Curry, and given just how good of shooters they are, I see the Warriors easily scoring 110+ every single game under modern rules.  Now with hand checking, muscling up, etc. of the 90's, it would be a much more interesting series, but at the end of the day, I'd take the Warriors shooters every time. 

I don't agree with this assessment at all.

Harper was still a meaningful contributor with the Lakers a couple years later, at the time he was with the Bulls he was still capable of guarding anyone in the league 1-3. Jordan could defend anyone 1-3 as well. Pippen absolutely had the length, athleticism, and agility to guard Durant. Rodman could guard all five positions. Kukoc was the only one who would have problems defensively (Longley would obviously be useless against anyone but Zaza).

Modern rules would make it more difficult, because the Bulls obviously played at a time when three point shooting wasn't en vogue. Bit I have to suspect Jordan, Pippen, Kukoc, Harper, and Kerr would all be capable of shooting the three at a high rate if encouraged to do so.

At the end of the day, I truly believe Jordan would be even scarier in today's NBA. I would never bet against him, under any circumstance.

[gouki88]

Bulls in 5, maybe 6. Pippen was Kawhi like on defence, not to mention MJ and Rodman. Everyone assuming the Warriors would score as easily as they do over the Cavs or Kawhi-less Spurs is deluded.

[LilRip]

It really depends on the era, IMO. Jordan and Pippen are not prolific 3pt shooters. Could they have been? Probably. But that adds another huge what if to an already huge what if scenario. I really think the removal of hand checking is what allowed guys who are built with a Nash archetype to flourish (eg  the aforementioned Steve Nash, Curry, Irving, Harden, IT, etc). These are accurate shooters with a great handle, even if their defense is suspect.

If we put this GS team in the 90's, Bulls are beating this team in 6. Curry and Klay will still be great shooters but they won't be setting records like current day. Not with guys literally holding and pushing them. KD is an all time great and his game translates to any era. Pippen will have his hands full. Still, I don't see how the Warriors can win. Heck, I don't think they can beat the championship Bad Boy Pistons either.

If we put the Bulls in the 2010's, I don't know. Particularly because of the rise of 3 point shooting whereas it was less of a point of emphasis back then. That said, I cannot see anybody on that Dubs team defending Jordan without getting into foul trouble every game. It's a toss up. Maybe I give it to the Warriors in 6 or 7. Maybe it'll boil down to who has HCA.