Author Topic: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?  (Read 3073 times)

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How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« on: May 29, 2017, 10:12:05 PM »

Offline Beat LA

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I realize that almost everyone wants to sign Gordon Hayward, but I'd like to look at the situation from another angle.  Yes, Hayward and the front office there have no always been on good terms, and especially lately, but I'm not sure why he'd leave a team perhaps a piece or two away from being a championship squad, regardless of the Warriors.

Initially, and given that they really need a power forward and starting shooting guard, as Rodney Hood struggled to stay on the court this year, I was of the view that Horford could be a perfect fit, but on second thought, why not Paul Millsap and Arron Afflalo?

Millsap has already played and experienced success in Utah and is one of the few players with the size, skillset, speed, and strength needed to score against Draymond Green, always steps up in the playoffs, and has a game that should age very well, while Afflalo probably doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild, even though I'm only speculating, here, and also has plenty of postseason experience.

Additionally, the Jazz always seem to draft well and have cap space this summer even before Hayward opts out, so could they conceivably convince him to do so, go out and get Millsap, resign Hayward, George Hill and Ingles, and take Jawun Evans at 24 if he's still on the board as between Sean Marks, Masai Ujiri, and Kyle Lowry's impending free agency I cannot see him slipping by either club (but that's just me and I'm probably wrong, as usual) plus all of their other picks, because if so, that's definitely a team on the rise, in my estimation.

Thoughts?

Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2017, 10:22:37 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't think they can clear the space to sign Millsap and Hayward, let alone re-up Hill, etc.


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Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2017, 10:35:05 PM »

Online Phantom255x

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I'd LOVE to land Hayward, but I predict he stays.

Now I don't think Utah can legitimately add another star without affecting their current roster, as Roy sort of mentioned above, but Utah can offer him more $$$, and he's like the "Tom Brady of Utah" LOL.

Although, the fact that Utah had to go 7 games against a Griffin-less Clippers squad may also make him realize the West overall is 5x tougher than the East, even without Golden State.
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Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2017, 12:51:16 AM »

Offline Beat LA

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I don't think they can clear the space to sign Millsap and Hayward, let alone re-up Hill, etc.

Just going by the espn trade machine, Utah already has $13,644,807 million in cap space before the increase and if Hayward opts out, but even if he doesn't, between the room they already have and the expiring deals of Hill, Ingles, Mack, and Withey, they'd have $27,244,807 to use.  Admittedly, I'm not even close to Saltlover when it comes to knowing about the cap, but surely they could get Millsap with that much to use and then go over the cap, if necessary, to resign guys like Hayward, Hill, and Ingles, right, or am I wrong here?

Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2017, 07:04:57 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't think they can clear the space to sign Millsap and Hayward, let alone re-up Hill, etc.

Just going by the espn trade machine, Utah already has $13,644,807 million in cap space before the increase and if Hayward opts out, but even if he doesn't, between the room they already have and the expiring deals of Hill, Ingles, Mack, and Withey, they'd have $27,244,807 to use.  Admittedly, I'm not even close to Saltlover when it comes to knowing about the cap, but surely they could get Millsap with that much to use and then go over the cap, if necessary, to resign guys like Hayward, Hill, and Ingles, right, or am I wrong here?

It's not really how it works. Until you renounce a free agent's rights they count against your cap. You can't subtract Hayward's salary, sign Millsap with cap space, and then resign Hayward and other free agents.


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Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2017, 08:27:20 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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In a similar way to us, the Jazz are a young team that should get better organically in the coming years. I don't think it should be concerning that they went to 7 against the Clippers, just last year that would have seemed out of reach. They are improving year on year.

What they do need to address is their long term salary structure. I think they would really like to bring back Hill as well as Hayward but that will largely depend on whether they can move on from Favors. If they can move him for either a pick or perhaps a guard to replace Hill then I think Hayward will stay put.

Our humbling at the hands of Lebron should be proof enough that the East is no cakewalk either. Sure there are fewer teams that can compete but you will still have to go through the best team in the league to get to the Finals.

Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2017, 08:29:04 AM »

Offline hodgy03038

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From everything I have heard they will lose George Hill and that will be a big hole to fill so they are moving backward, especially if they also lose Hayward.

Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2017, 08:43:37 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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In a similar way to us, the Jazz are a young team that should get better organically in the coming years. I don't think it should be concerning that they went to 7 against the Clippers, just last year that would have seemed out of reach. They are improving year on year.

What they do need to address is their long term salary structure. I think they would really like to bring back Hill as well as Hayward but that will largely depend on whether they can move on from Favors. If they can move him for either a pick or perhaps a guard to replace Hill then I think Hayward will stay put.

Our humbling at the hands of Lebron should be proof enough that the East is no cakewalk either. Sure there are fewer teams that can compete but you will still have to go through the best team in the league to get to the Finals.

Hayward needs to assess whether a core of himself, Gobert and Hill is good enough to win. They don't have a lot of avenues to improve other than the internal growth you mentioned.


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Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2017, 08:44:57 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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They have an issue in that they have no way of getting another star to play with Hayward and Gobert. Favors' value is at its lowest right now since he's had injury issues and is one year away from free agency. They do have Hood, but it's not clear how good he can be. They need to re-sign Hill and Ingles, but the problem is it will be costly and both are really win-now players. Exum hasn't shown that he can be given the reins and doesn't have a lot of trade value. Even if they could clear up cap space, Utah is not a place free agents want to play so they've always had to draft their talent. With only late first rounders now it'd be very difficult to find an impact player and even then he'd take a few years to develop at least.

During their rebuilding phase they needed to really hit on one more of their picks. Exum should have been that player but he hasn't shown it. One mistake was when they thought Burks was a key piece and re-signed him early to a 5-year deal. If he could have developed into a Bradley-level player (remember those comparisons?) he'd at least be a really nice asset.

If I were Hayward I'd feel a lot more confident about the Celtics' position. They actually have draft pick assets, more young players with potential, and other offensive threats to share the load. It would be devastating if Hayward left Utah because they'd suddenly be directionless.

Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2017, 08:51:14 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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In a similar way to us, the Jazz are a young team that should get better organically in the coming years. I don't think it should be concerning that they went to 7 against the Clippers, just last year that would have seemed out of reach. They are improving year on year.

What they do need to address is their long term salary structure. I think they would really like to bring back Hill as well as Hayward but that will largely depend on whether they can move on from Favors. If they can move him for either a pick or perhaps a guard to replace Hill then I think Hayward will stay put.

Our humbling at the hands of Lebron should be proof enough that the East is no cakewalk either. Sure there are fewer teams that can compete but you will still have to go through the best team in the league to get to the Finals.

Hayward needs to assess whether a core of himself, Gobert and Hill is good enough to win. They don't have a lot of avenues to improve other than the internal growth you mentioned.

Yes he would. We can often see it a bit too binary though. If it were as simple as "can I win here?" then most would answer no and everyone would move to Cleveland or Golden State. "Can I see visible progress here and the hope to compete whilst I still earn lots of money?" is the real question. That still puts the Cs above Utah but there is a definite argument to be made for Utah in isolation. And the one thing we don't have is a rim protector like Gobert.

Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2017, 08:52:58 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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From everything I have heard they will lose George Hill and that will be a big hole to fill so they are moving backward, especially if they also lose Hayward.

They might, because George apparently wants a max deal. Some reports suggest that he turned down what would have amounted to a 3 year, $88 million extension.

If true, that's insane to me. I like George Hill, but he's 31 years old, and he's definitely in the "good but not great" category.


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Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #11 on: May 30, 2017, 09:16:38 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Very far. They have little avenues for growth while having a 2nd round core. They should let Hill go and trade Favors for a guard. Then try to draft a big and sign a starting PF to roll it back a year. They could really use Exum breaking out now.
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Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2017, 09:23:33 AM »

Offline footey

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I don't think this issue is particularly relevant to his decision on whether or not to stay.  He says the right things, wanting to win a championship. They all do.

I see him happy in Utah.  The extra money is a big consideration.  He married very young in life to a woman who was right out of high school, also from Indiana.  They have two young daughters.   They spend the off-season in San Diego where they have another home. I doubt they are thinking of coming to Boston.  Just doesn't seem like the right place for them.  Hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut here.

Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2017, 09:43:10 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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I don't think this issue is particularly relevant to his decision on whether or not to stay.  He says the right things, wanting to win a championship. They all do.

I see him happy in Utah.  The extra money is a big consideration.  He married very young in life to a woman who was right out of high school, also from Indiana.  They have two young daughters.   They spend the off-season in San Diego where they have another home. I doubt they are thinking of coming to Boston.  Just doesn't seem like the right place for them.  Hope I'm wrong, but that's my gut here.

The money is similar through four years, and the third year opt out means he can get another bump in pay soon.

Hayward signed an offer sheet with Charlotte three years ago. I don't think he's particularly tied to Utah. For all we know he may be still holding a grudge after the Jazz low-balled him in contract talks.


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Re: How Close To/Far Away from Contention are the Utah Jazz?
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2017, 10:50:23 AM »

Online Moranis

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Utah's title chances hinge heavily on whether Gobert can take another jump and what Hood's peak actually is.  If Gobert takes another jump and Hood has an all star type peak then with Hayward Utah can be a real legit title threat
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