Author Topic: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?  (Read 11568 times)

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Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2017, 01:59:47 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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and add in KO or Rozier for Simmons and Covington

Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2017, 02:04:53 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart. 
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Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2017, 02:16:37 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

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You guys ever seen simmons? He is Lamar Odom without a jump shot

Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2017, 02:32:14 PM »

Offline Eddie20

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You guys ever seen simmons? He is Lamar Odom without a jump shot

He's 2 full years older than Fultz, has one huge weakness (shooting), has injury concerns, and 1 less year of being under the rookie scale than Fultz.

Yeah, give me Fultz and it's not that close. Besides, how many NBA stars that can't shoot are dominant in today's NBA? Giannis looks like Mark Price compared to Simmons, who not only can't shoot, but seems petrified to even shoot the ball from the perimeter.

Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2017, 02:45:01 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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Hey everyone needs to go back and watch some tape on Simmons.  He is ridiculously good.

Simmons is probably better then Fultz right now and for the next couple years.  If Simmons develops any kind of good outside shot.. he will be the better player.
He is a prospect of similar level to Fultz. Fultz is also ridiculously good. Fultz, however doesnt have the injury red flag to the extent Simmons does, making Fultz the better prospect.

Ilikesports has hit on 2 of the main 3 things I think there are to consider here and I'll add on with #3:

1.  They are similar level prospects.  If you like one better than the other, that is fine, but neither one is a universally regarded better prospect than the other.

2.  Simmons has injury concerns.  This is true, but Fultz also was shut down for the end of his season with a knee injury.  Simmons does seem more serious, but I wouldn't say Fultz is "in the clear".  Everybody has risk for injuries.

3.  When players come into the league of similar level, it's going to come down to how you develop them.  Not only do the Celtics have a need at the PF position to compete right now, but more importantly, they have minutes available there to give Simmons so he can develop as a pro.  Fultz being a guard will not have as many minutes available to him.  So I think in the Celtics specifically, Simmons has a better chance to develop and thrive.

With those reasons considered, I'd slightly prefer Simmons.  Partly because I give stronger weight that most people do to defensive players.  I love that hes a PF who will basically be able to defend 1-5 in the NBA when he hits his prime.  That's going to be incredibly valuable.
A gaurd being shut down for like 7 games due to knee soreness <<< a 7 footer(?) missing an entire season with a foot injury
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Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2017, 03:03:26 PM »

Offline Irish Stew

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No. This is a volume 3-point shooting team that needs to improve its efficiency, not bring in another bricklayer.

Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #36 on: May 28, 2017, 03:28:39 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart.

As ever I am relieved you aren't the GM.
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Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #37 on: May 28, 2017, 04:48:10 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart.

As ever I am relieved you aren't the GM.
That is a pretty good trade.  #1 for Simmons is pretty even.  #3 for Crowder/Smart, Boston (not Brooklyn) 18 and the Memphis protected 19 is significantly in our favor.  Crowder isn't needed if we get Hayward and Smart just isn't worth much.  Boston 18 will be a late 1st and Memphis 19 will most likely be outside the lottery. 

IT/Bradley/Hayward/Simmons/Horford would be a really good balanced team. 

Plenty of good talent available with the #3 that would help us.  Or you could use it and Bradley to get Butler or PG. 

Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2017, 05:05:09 PM »

Offline moiso

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You guys ever seen simmons? He is Lamar Odom without a jump shot
Simmons seems like he will be very good, but this post is making me think.  He does seem an aweful lot like Odom.

Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2017, 05:17:07 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart.

As ever I am relieved you aren't the GM.
That is a pretty good trade.  #1 for Simmons is pretty even.  #3 for Crowder/Smart, Boston (not Brooklyn) 18 and the Memphis protected 19 is significantly in our favor.  Crowder isn't needed if we get Hayward and Smart just isn't worth much.  Boston 18 will be a late 1st and Memphis 19 will most likely be outside the lottery. 

IT/Bradley/Hayward/Simmons/Horford would be a really good balanced team. 

Plenty of good talent available with the #3 that would help us.  Or you could use it and Bradley to get Butler or PG.
Id do Moranis's second trade, especially if Danny fell in love with Jackson, Fox, Tatum, or someone like that.

I would NOT do Fultz for Simmons. Although it wouldnt be a disastrous trade by any means and we could easily end up the winner.
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Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #40 on: May 28, 2017, 05:20:50 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart.

As ever I am relieved you aren't the GM.
That is a pretty good trade.  #1 for Simmons is pretty even.  #3 for Crowder/Smart, Boston (not Brooklyn) 18 and the Memphis protected 19 is significantly in our favor.  Crowder isn't needed if we get Hayward and Smart just isn't worth much.  Boston 18 will be a late 1st and Memphis 19 will most likely be outside the lottery. 

IT/Bradley/Hayward/Simmons/Horford would be a really good balanced team. 

Plenty of good talent available with the #3 that would help us.  Or you could use it and Bradley to get Butler or PG.

I don't see Simmons as equal value for Fultz. Fultz is a better prospect for today's game.

Furthermore, offering Crowder and Smart for the number 3, let alone adding multiple 1sts, strikes me as a drastic overpay.

The top of this draft is nice but not that nice. I'm not convinced Jackson, Tatum, or Monk is so likely to be a valuable contributor that it would make sense to give up all those assets.


Edit:  OK, I see that it's Crowder / Smart, not both.

Still, I think one of those plus two picks is kind of a lot just to add number three to this deal. And I really don't want to swap Fultz for Simmons. Come at me when Simmons is hitting threes or playing defense.

Overall, it strikes me as an idea that appeals to the mindset of someone who thinks the Celts need to totally revamp their roster, particularly with an eye toward being worse now and better later.

I don't think that is necessary or especially beneficial.

Fultz is our guy. Crowder and Smart are nice role players to put around the stars we have and the star we are about to draft.

Doesn't make sense to be in a hurry to trade em away.

Also that Memphis pick could be pretty good.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2017, 06:16:05 PM by PhoSita »
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Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #41 on: May 28, 2017, 05:33:39 PM »

Offline Granath

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart.

As ever I am relieved you aren't the GM.

I entirely agree with you. Pho sure.
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Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #42 on: May 28, 2017, 08:41:30 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart.

As ever I am relieved you aren't the GM.
That is a pretty good trade.  #1 for Simmons is pretty even.  #3 for Crowder/Smart, Boston (not Brooklyn) 18 and the Memphis protected 19 is significantly in our favor.  Crowder isn't needed if we get Hayward and Smart just isn't worth much.  Boston 18 will be a late 1st and Memphis 19 will most likely be outside the lottery. 

IT/Bradley/Hayward/Simmons/Horford would be a really good balanced team. 

Plenty of good talent available with the #3 that would help us.  Or you could use it and Bradley to get Butler or PG.

I don't see Simmons as equal value for Fultz. Fultz is a better prospect for today's game.

Furthermore, offering Crowder and Smart for the number 3, let alone adding multiple 1sts, strikes me as a drastic overpay.

The top of this draft is nice but not that nice. I'm not convinced Jackson, Tatum, or Monk is so likely to be a valuable contributor that it would make sense to give up all those assets.


Edit:  OK, I see that it's Crowder / Smart, not both.

Still, I think one of those plus two picks is kind of a lot just to add number three to this deal. And I really don't want to swap Fultz for Simmons. Come at me when Simmons is hitting threes or playing defense.

Overall, it strikes me as an idea that appeals to the mindset of someone who thinks the Celts need to totally revamp their roster, particularly with an eye toward being worse now and better later.

I don't think that is necessary or especially beneficial.

Fultz is our guy. Crowder and Smart are nice role players to put around the stars we have and the star we are about to draft.

Doesn't make sense to be in a hurry to trade em away.

Also that Memphis pick could be pretty good.
If anything I'd rate Simmons higher than Fultz.  His floor is a very big Rondo which is a good thing.  Simmons would slot right in as starting PF and provide more immediate contribution than Fultz would.  He'd address our rebounding problem.  He'd be able to beast in the paint with the other starters being good shooters.  His passing/court vision are divine and he's dynamic on the fast break.  I think Simmons salary would be about 1M less then Fultz.  Which would help acquire Hayward who would be a significant improvement over Crowder.

You really are devaluing the #3 pick.  Like you said Crowder and Smart are role players.  The Boston 2018 will be a late 1st which most likely is a bust or back bencher.  The protected  Memphis pick is at least 2 years away and is unlikely to be a lottery pick and not anywhere close to the #3 pick in this draft.  Top 5 picks have a good chance of becoming a star.  I'd probably use it for Fox who could end up better than Fultz.  Jackson, Tatum and Isaac are possibilities too. 

This would be a good win now, win later team.  Use the room exception to get a good backup PF.  Definitely not a step back scenario.  Hayward >> Crowder, Fox >> Rozier, Simmons >>>> Amir/KO.

IT/Fox
Bradley/Smart
Hayward/Brown
Simmons
Horford/Zizic



Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #43 on: May 28, 2017, 10:00:01 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Personally even if it is a win-win you don't make teams in your division - your rivals better. Absolutely no trade with Philly unless we rip them off.

So you would hold your own team back purely for the sake of holding an opponent back?

Remembering that we are way, way ahead of Philly in the rebuild process right now AND that we still have the 2018 Brookyn 1st next year, which we will get regardless of how good we are.  We could potentially take the #1 seed, make the ECF and get a #1 pick for the second straight year (unlikely, but not out of the question). 

On the other hand Philly only get's their high pick if they continue to really suck.  If Philly gets significantly better next year, then their opportunity for picking high lottery picks ends there.
"If Philly gets significantly better next year, then their opportunity for picking high lottery picks ends there."

That's not true...
Philly owns:
2019 SAC unprotected 1st
2018 LAL unprotected 1st
ALL THEIR OWN 1ST'S
plus many more picks

Re: #1 for Ben Simmons - would you do it?
« Reply #44 on: May 28, 2017, 10:16:10 PM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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I'd probably do it, but I think I'd try to make it a larger trade

1, Crowder/Smart, BOS 18, MEM 1st for Simmons, 3

I think that is a better trade for Boston.  I'd even let them pick between Crowder and Smart.

As ever I am relieved you aren't the GM.
That is a pretty good trade.  #1 for Simmons is pretty even.  #3 for Crowder/Smart, Boston (not Brooklyn) 18 and the Memphis protected 19 is significantly in our favor.  Crowder isn't needed if we get Hayward and Smart just isn't worth much.  Boston 18 will be a late 1st and Memphis 19 will most likely be outside the lottery. 

IT/Bradley/Hayward/Simmons/Horford would be a really good balanced team. 

Plenty of good talent available with the #3 that would help us.  Or you could use it and Bradley to get Butler or PG.
Id do Moranis's second trade, especially if Danny fell in love with Jackson, Fox, Tatum, or someone like that.

I would NOT do Fultz for Simmons. Although it wouldnt be a disastrous trade by any means and we could easily end up the winner.
No way they trade us the #3 for that.

If they did I'd 100% do it.