Author Topic: Bradley and crowder  (Read 6572 times)

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Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2017, 02:20:05 PM »

Offline SHAQATTACK

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trade to bring in another BIG or star to help IT and Horford out

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2017, 09:20:43 PM »

Offline spikelovetheCelts

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DA will trade anyone if it makes the team better.  Other than IT and Horford all will be discussed this summer. Heyward signing here changes everything too. Crowder is gone if Heyward comes. AB has improved his game a great deal. I think he may not have peaked. I am hopeful for 18+ from him next year and sniff BEING An All-Star. And you don't trade him then. He will have more space with Heyward on the court.
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Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2017, 04:42:56 AM »

Offline Greyman

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I'm not as clued in on salary caps and the smart way to make trades as others on here. It does occur to me though that to compete with the top two teams the Celtics have to add two players and also have the far superior second unit. Even with Hayward the improvement doesn't take you to the level you need.

What has this got to do with Crowder and AB? I was wondering if there wasn't a way to keep these two, add Hayward and one other to the starting 5 and have the strongest depth in the NBA?

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2017, 05:05:20 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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According to GM's around the league:
CROWDER'S CONTRACT IS 1 OF THE 5 MOST VALUABLE CONTRACTS....in the NBA

It's too dam early to bring up the article...so do it yourself and search that.


Crowder's value decreases every year bc his contract comes closer to being up. Teams know what he is and although many people think he sucked in the playoffs, he was still right around his season averages for everything. Crowder is much more valuable to us in a trade than staying on the team and contributing off the bench or as a 6th man. Teams will be calling about him and he will fetch us something nice

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2017, 05:08:39 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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Crowder isn't being traded.
He is good and cheap.

Which is why he may be traded.

We will need to get better to compete with Cleveland. That means replacing guys like Crowder in the starting lineup. He's cheap, a 14ppg scorer and a plus defender so he has value and can fit in many team systems. He may have more value to another team than the Celtics and that's why a player gets traded.

Moreover, if Fultz is drafted there's a glut at the guard spot. Thus moving Crowder gives the minutes to Jaylen Brown who may be a better fit, has massive potential and whose PER 36 numbers are quite close to Crowder's already (though not quite there as a defender yet). Thus Crowder is a prime trade candidate - a guy we can move who has value and whose replacement is already on the roster. The only "backfill" required would be a backup SF/PF and those are fairly easy to find.

I almost expect that Crowder and either Smart or Bradley will be traded this offseason with the aim being either future picks or more likely interior help. It's time to redistribute the roster a bit to get ready to push to the next level.

If we sign Hayward and intend to keep IT then we are going to face the luxury tax. At that point it will be important to have cheap contracts for our bench. With rookies coming off of extensions, Crowder is our only cheap contract. If you could get a PF/C on a similar deal in return then perhaps but otherwise you need Crowder type contracts to fill out the team

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2017, 07:11:35 AM »

Offline Granath

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Crowder isn't being traded.
He is good and cheap.

Which is why he may be traded.

We will need to get better to compete with Cleveland. That means replacing guys like Crowder in the starting lineup. He's cheap, a 14ppg scorer and a plus defender so he has value and can fit in many team systems. He may have more value to another team than the Celtics and that's why a player gets traded.

Moreover, if Fultz is drafted there's a glut at the guard spot. Thus moving Crowder gives the minutes to Jaylen Brown who may be a better fit, has massive potential and whose PER 36 numbers are quite close to Crowder's already (though not quite there as a defender yet). Thus Crowder is a prime trade candidate - a guy we can move who has value and whose replacement is already on the roster. The only "backfill" required would be a backup SF/PF and those are fairly easy to find.

I almost expect that Crowder and either Smart or Bradley will be traded this offseason with the aim being either future picks or more likely interior help. It's time to redistribute the roster a bit to get ready to push to the next level.

If we sign Hayward and intend to keep IT then we are going to face the luxury tax. At that point it will be important to have cheap contracts for our bench. With rookies coming off of extensions, Crowder is our only cheap contract. If you could get a PF/C on a similar deal in return then perhaps but otherwise you need Crowder type contracts to fill out the team

Yet we have those cheap contracts in spades with the draftees. Jaylen Brown. Fultz. Yabu. Zizic. Bkyn 2018. Bos 2018. Memphis #1. LAC #1. A gaggle of 2nd rounders.

Between those guys and some back-of-the-roster guys like Gerald Green, that's how you get rid of Crowder and still keep the salaries manageable. Crowder isn't needed to maintain cap flexibility.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2017, 07:52:03 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Crowder isn't being traded.
He is good and cheap.

Which is why he may be traded.

We will need to get better to compete with Cleveland. That means replacing guys like Crowder in the starting lineup. He's cheap, a 14ppg scorer and a plus defender so he has value and can fit in many team systems. He may have more value to another team than the Celtics and that's why a player gets traded.

Moreover, if Fultz is drafted there's a glut at the guard spot. Thus moving Crowder gives the minutes to Jaylen Brown who may be a better fit, has massive potential and whose PER 36 numbers are quite close to Crowder's already (though not quite there as a defender yet). Thus Crowder is a prime trade candidate - a guy we can move who has value and whose replacement is already on the roster. The only "backfill" required would be a backup SF/PF and those are fairly easy to find.

I almost expect that Crowder and either Smart or Bradley will be traded this offseason with the aim being either future picks or more likely interior help. It's time to redistribute the roster a bit to get ready to push to the next level.

If we sign Hayward and intend to keep IT then we are going to face the luxury tax. At that point it will be important to have cheap contracts for our bench. With rookies coming off of extensions, Crowder is our only cheap contract. If you could get a PF/C on a similar deal in return then perhaps but otherwise you need Crowder type contracts to fill out the team

Yet we have those cheap contracts in spades with the draftees. Jaylen Brown. Fultz. Yabu. Zizic. Bkyn 2018. Bos 2018. Memphis #1. LAC #1. A gaggle of 2nd rounders.

Between those guys and some back-of-the-roster guys like Gerald Green, that's how you get rid of Crowder and still keep the salaries manageable. Crowder isn't needed to maintain cap flexibility.

Exactly. Brown contract for example has the same number of years left but he will cost 5.2 millions dollars less in those 3 years. Given his upside I would much rather have Jaylen Brown playing those minutes. Jae Crowders contract is great, but hes not so talented you HAVE to keep him.

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2017, 08:10:52 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Crowder isn't being traded.
He is good and cheap.

Which is why he may be traded.

We will need to get better to compete with Cleveland. That means replacing guys like Crowder in the starting lineup. He's cheap, a 14ppg scorer and a plus defender so he has value and can fit in many team systems. He may have more value to another team than the Celtics and that's why a player gets traded.

Moreover, if Fultz is drafted there's a glut at the guard spot. Thus moving Crowder gives the minutes to Jaylen Brown who may be a better fit, has massive potential and whose PER 36 numbers are quite close to Crowder's already (though not quite there as a defender yet). Thus Crowder is a prime trade candidate - a guy we can move who has value and whose replacement is already on the roster. The only "backfill" required would be a backup SF/PF and those are fairly easy to find.

I almost expect that Crowder and either Smart or Bradley will be traded this offseason with the aim being either future picks or more likely interior help. It's time to redistribute the roster a bit to get ready to push to the next level.

If we sign Hayward and intend to keep IT then we are going to face the luxury tax. At that point it will be important to have cheap contracts for our bench. With rookies coming off of extensions, Crowder is our only cheap contract. If you could get a PF/C on a similar deal in return then perhaps but otherwise you need Crowder type contracts to fill out the team

Yet we have those cheap contracts in spades with the draftees. Jaylen Brown. Fultz. Yabu. Zizic. Bkyn 2018. Bos 2018. Memphis #1. LAC #1. A gaggle of 2nd rounders.

Between those guys and some back-of-the-roster guys like Gerald Green, that's how you get rid of Crowder and still keep the salaries manageable. Crowder isn't needed to maintain cap flexibility.

Exactly. Brown contract for example has the same number of years left but he will cost 5.2 millions dollars less in those 3 years. Given his upside I would much rather have Jaylen Brown playing those minutes. Jae Crowders contract is great, but hes not so talented you HAVE to keep him.

I also believe  (or really hope) that Brown passes Crowder next year. 

So if the Celtics add a Hayward, the Celtics do not need three sf. 

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2017, 09:03:37 AM »

Offline CsBanner18

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Yea let's trade Jae for a backup C....Lets penalize Jae for not being the starting SF we want (Hayward/PG13)--not by eventually benching him--but by trading him for a guy that doesn't even deserve to be in the same conversation. What a joke...

The only person discussing trading Jae for a backup C is you. Projecting much?
The OP literally wrote that we should trade Crowder for Koufos. He started last season but his career averages of 6 points and 5 rebounds suggest that he is a backup Center.

Thanks Mahcus! Thought it was BLATANTLY obvious, but apparently some people on here don't like to read OR think before they respond OR make posts like this 

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2017, 09:18:55 AM »

Offline mctyson

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If... if the celtics sign hayward and fultz...i see bradley and crowder getting traded...

I'll say it again here:

Trading Avery Bradley to sign Gordon Hayward might be a slight upgrade at best, and possibly a negligible move at worst.  Everyone is substantially underrating how good Avery is. 

People on this blog have to stop considering what Bradley, IT, or Smart will make for salary in 2018/19.  That has no bearing on what this team does this summer.  Ainge stated this clearly in the Herald article posted here yesterday.  And even if you want to consider it, a strong argument could be made that having Avery at ~$20M is a better value than Hayward at ~$30M.

Additionally, people have to stop considering Fultz as a reason to trade Bradley off the roster.  Fultz will be a 19 year-old rookie who has never competed against pros.  Bradley is a better player than him right now. If Fultz is drafted by the Cs, he is not going to start, he is not going to play 20+ minutes, and he might not even be the 7th or 8th guy on the court.

The Celtics are in an amazing position given the fact that they can have talents like Jaylen Brown and (potentially) Markelle Fultz on their team - possible franchise cornerstones - and yet these guys have to earn their playing time behind Bradley and Crowder.  If and when Brown and Fultz take on major roles and become starters, it will fully earned, where they prove they are clearly better players.

So if I can have just one thing for the remainder of the summer, until next season, I would hope it would be the end of the "Trade Bradley" and/or "Trade Crowder" threads.


Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2017, 09:58:39 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
According to GM's around the league:
CROWDER'S CONTRACT IS 1 OF THE 5 MOST VALUABLE CONTRACTS....in the NBA

I don't think Crowder could bring back an elite player in return because he is not one.

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2017, 10:00:31 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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If... if the celtics sign hayward and fultz...i see bradley and crowder getting traded...

I'll say it again here:

Trading Avery Bradley to sign Gordon Hayward might be a slight upgrade at best, and possibly a negligible move at worst.  Everyone is substantially underrating how good Avery is. 

People on this blog have to stop considering what Bradley, IT, or Smart will make for salary in 2018/19.  That has no bearing on what this team does this summer.  Ainge stated this clearly in the Herald article posted here yesterday.  And even if you want to consider it, a strong argument could be made that having Avery at ~$20M is a better value than Hayward at ~$30M.

Additionally, people have to stop considering Fultz as a reason to trade Bradley off the roster.  Fultz will be a 19 year-old rookie who has never competed against pros.  Bradley is a better player than him right now. If Fultz is drafted by the Cs, he is not going to start, he is not going to play 20+ minutes, and he might not even be the 7th or 8th guy on the court.

The Celtics are in an amazing position given the fact that they can have talents like Jaylen Brown and (potentially) Markelle Fultz on their team - possible franchise cornerstones - and yet these guys have to earn their playing time behind Bradley and Crowder.  If and when Brown and Fultz take on major roles and become starters, it will fully earned, where they prove they are clearly better players.

So if I can have just one thing for the remainder of the summer, until next season, I would hope it would be the end of the "Trade Bradley" and/or "Trade Crowder" threads.

Point of fact, we don't have to stop considering anything. What the team salary structure looks like in 2018/2019 has a HUGE impact on what any team does in 2017/2018. Any team that isn't considering 2,3,4 years down the road is a badly run organization.

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2017, 10:56:18 AM »

Offline mctyson

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If... if the celtics sign hayward and fultz...i see bradley and crowder getting traded...

I'll say it again here:

Trading Avery Bradley to sign Gordon Hayward might be a slight upgrade at best, and possibly a negligible move at worst.  Everyone is substantially underrating how good Avery is. 

People on this blog have to stop considering what Bradley, IT, or Smart will make for salary in 2018/19.  That has no bearing on what this team does this summer.  Ainge stated this clearly in the Herald article posted here yesterday.  And even if you want to consider it, a strong argument could be made that having Avery at ~$20M is a better value than Hayward at ~$30M.

Additionally, people have to stop considering Fultz as a reason to trade Bradley off the roster.  Fultz will be a 19 year-old rookie who has never competed against pros.  Bradley is a better player than him right now. If Fultz is drafted by the Cs, he is not going to start, he is not going to play 20+ minutes, and he might not even be the 7th or 8th guy on the court.

The Celtics are in an amazing position given the fact that they can have talents like Jaylen Brown and (potentially) Markelle Fultz on their team - possible franchise cornerstones - and yet these guys have to earn their playing time behind Bradley and Crowder.  If and when Brown and Fultz take on major roles and become starters, it will fully earned, where they prove they are clearly better players.

So if I can have just one thing for the remainder of the summer, until next season, I would hope it would be the end of the "Trade Bradley" and/or "Trade Crowder" threads.

Point of fact, we don't have to stop considering anything. What the team salary structure looks like in 2018/2019 has a HUGE impact on what any team does in 2017/2018. Any team that isn't considering 2,3,4 years down the road is a badly run organization.

No, it does not.  Ainge - the guy who runs that team, which is a very well run organization - agrees with me.  There is absolutely zero need to trade Avery Bradley now because he will be a free agent in one more season.  Same with IT.  Same with Marcus.   

This idea that you have to trade pending free agents because you don't want to lose them for nothing is interesting in a league with a salary cap that requires teams to take back matching salaries.  Letting people walk away does not require that.  It isn't ideal but it isn't the end of the world, and it may just be that is the resolution for both Bradley and IT.

And, point of fact, fans do not need to consider player salaries and tax implications, either now or in the future.  Again, Ainge agrees with me.  I just sat through a whole season listening to people complain about Horford's salary.  Why? I have no idea.  It is not like the 95% of Celtics fans who are at home watching the team play are paying these salaries.  So why do we care if Horford or IT are max players?  Why do we care if Wyc & Co. pay the luxury tax?  What exactly is everyone worried about?

All I care about is the team getting better. 

Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2017, 11:07:13 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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If... if the celtics sign hayward and fultz...i see bradley and crowder getting traded...

I'll say it again here:

Trading Avery Bradley to sign Gordon Hayward might be a slight upgrade at best, and possibly a negligible move at worst.  Everyone is substantially underrating how good Avery is. 

People on this blog have to stop considering what Bradley, IT, or Smart will make for salary in 2018/19.  That has no bearing on what this team does this summer.  Ainge stated this clearly in the Herald article posted here yesterday.  And even if you want to consider it, a strong argument could be made that having Avery at ~$20M is a better value than Hayward at ~$30M.

Additionally, people have to stop considering Fultz as a reason to trade Bradley off the roster.  Fultz will be a 19 year-old rookie who has never competed against pros.  Bradley is a better player than him right now. If Fultz is drafted by the Cs, he is not going to start, he is not going to play 20+ minutes, and he might not even be the 7th or 8th guy on the court.

The Celtics are in an amazing position given the fact that they can have talents like Jaylen Brown and (potentially) Markelle Fultz on their team - possible franchise cornerstones - and yet these guys have to earn their playing time behind Bradley and Crowder.  If and when Brown and Fultz take on major roles and become starters, it will fully earned, where they prove they are clearly better players.

So if I can have just one thing for the remainder of the summer, until next season, I would hope it would be the end of the "Trade Bradley" and/or "Trade Crowder" threads.

Point of fact, we don't have to stop considering anything. What the team salary structure looks like in 2018/2019 has a HUGE impact on what any team does in 2017/2018. Any team that isn't considering 2,3,4 years down the road is a badly run organization.

No, it does not.  Ainge - the guy who runs that team, which is a very well run organization - agrees with me.  There is absolutely zero need to trade Avery Bradley now because he will be a free agent in one more season.  Same with IT.  Same with Marcus.   

This idea that you have to trade pending free agents because you don't want to lose them for nothing is interesting in a league with a salary cap that requires teams to take back matching salaries.  Letting people walk away does not require that.  It isn't ideal but it isn't the end of the world, and it may just be that is the resolution for both Bradley and IT.

And, point of fact, fans do not need to consider player salaries and tax implications, either now or in the future.  Again, Ainge agrees with me.  I just sat through a whole season listening to people complain about Horford's salary.  Why? I have no idea.  It is not like the 95% of Celtics fans who are at home watching the team play are paying these salaries.  So why do we care if Horford or IT are max players?  Why do we care if Wyc & Co. pay the luxury tax?  What exactly is everyone worried about?

All I care about is the team getting better.
well its unlikely Wyc is willing to pay all 3 on top of the 2 max contracts he would hypothetically have in Hayward and Horford, but even if we agree to not care about luxury tax it makes a decent amount of sense to trade Bradley.

Firstoff, we cant fit Hayward under the cap unless we shed 1.5 million in cap space. This is most easily done by trading one of Bradley, Crowder or Smart.

Second, there is already a huge log jam. There is absolutely no way you can find enough minutes for Thomas, Smart, Bradley, Hayward, Crowder, Brown, Fultz, and Rozier. No chance whatsoever.

It was a small minority of posters complaining about Horford's salary and they primarily did it, not because they were p---ed Horford was getting rich, but because they were worried that it would hinder our flexibility in the future. They were worried that we would get into a situation like this where in order to sign a Gordon Hayward we have to dump a valuable and affordable player.

Lastly, you dont need to match salaries when trading to a team with cap space. So that point was just flat out wrong.

If you cant see the relevance of player contracts in team building then you are an uneducated fan. Theres nothing wrong with that, but dont chastise other fans who see the bigger picture.
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Re: Bradley and crowder
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2017, 11:45:47 AM »

Offline Diggles

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I think we keep one of them.   Call me crazy but I think the play is trading IT.....  Draft Fultzs and get good value for IT.

If we can get #4 from PHX and Chriss I'd love to explore that trade.... Sign Hayward and start smart..

Smart/Rozier/Jackson
Bradely/Fultz/Brown
Hayward/Brown/Jackson
Jae/Chriss/Jackson/Mickey
AL/KO/ZZ

     

Bradley defends pg/sg
Smart Defends sg/sf
Crowder defends sf/pf
Diggles