Author Topic: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?  (Read 5123 times)

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Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2017, 09:55:06 PM »

Offline tazzmaniac

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I know a lot of people are totally against trading Thomas, and I understand. He's been incredible this season. But if the front office decides the cost of retaining him is going to outweigh the benefits and it comes to trading him, what is his value?

Would you trade IT for Aaron Gordon and the #6? How about for Saric and the Lakers pick next year? Would you trade IT for Gordon or Saric straight up?

None of these trades is a possibility, Philadelphia and Orlando won't even think about them. I'd happily trade IT for Saric, a savvy player on a rookie contract and good fit in our passing-oriented system. But that's not happening.
How can you be so sure they wouldn't do it? 

Draftexpress has the Sixers drafting Jackson at #3 so it's highly likely they 'll still be in need of a point guard on draft night. With Simmons coming back healthy, it's only logical to assume that Saric won't be their starting PF for the future.

The C's move on from Amir (and free up enough cap space to go after Hayward) and the Sixers get a starting point guard who can finally lead their young team to the playoffs (just like he did in Boston).

IT
3+D shooting guard
Jackson
Simmons
Embiid

That's definitely a playoff team in my book (and a fun team to watch as well).
Why would the Sixers give up Saric and the Lakers 2018 pick (probable top 5) for a 1 year rental?  There's a good chance IT would just walk after a year.   The Sixers have a lot of options for how they can proceed but giving up really good assets for IT is one of the dumbest moves they could make.  Their playoff chances hinge on Embiid's health not on getting IT.  BTW, the Sixers have a 3+D guy in Covington.   

The Sixers need to maintain their flexibility.  If Embiid can't stay healthy, the Lakers pick gives them a shot at another good big.  If he does, it gives them a shot at Donkic or Porter.  The Sixers have a chance to be really special if Embiid stays healthy and Colangelo doesn't screw it up. 



Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2017, 09:56:40 PM »

Offline Big333223

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No, no, and no.  If he's not going to be resigned, better to have him as a mentor for Fultz and let him walk in free agency.  The question marks about Fultz -- intensity, winning attitude -- are the qualities IT has in spades.
You'd rather he walk for nothing in a year than trade him for a young player with all star potential? That's crazy to me.
Well how about you think before posting? I haven’t seen one reasonable IT trade out there yet and thats mostly because they come from overreacting posters who think for a whole 2 seconds before posting their trade IT idea. Why in the world would these rebuilding teams like Philly, Orlando, and Minny trade their valuable young assets for a 5’9’’ 28 year old point guard who has 1 year left on his deal? None of those teams are making the jump with Thomas and yet you expect to get Gordon and #6, or Lavine and #7, or Saric and lakers pick? Not only does that ruin our chances next year by getting rid of our best player and only player who can create his own shot, but there isn’t a chance in hell that one of those rebuilding teams trades for him. The only way IT would get traded is if there is a playoff team that needs a point guard and has young assets to trade for him, and there just isn’t a team like that out there.
The entire premise is ridiculous. Why can Fultz only be "mentored" by someone who plays the same position? What about IT makes him an ideal mentor besides being good at basketball? How valuable is this mentorship, exactly?

If you don't think IT can fetch one of those guys on the trade market, I understand. But that's not what tarheels said. What tarheels said, I find totally crazy.
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Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2017, 09:58:34 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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INJURED PLAYERS DONT GET TRADED
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Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2017, 10:16:45 PM »

Offline More Banners

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INJURED PLAYERS DONT GET TRADED

Is this something new?  Since it has happened too many times to list, including players coming here either injured (e.g. Raef) or off injury/surgery (e.g. Shuttlesworth).

And it doesn't look like IT is dealing with anything catastrophic.

Just a hypothetical anyway. So relax, take it easy, go for a walk, maybe read a book....and leave the caps lock alone.

Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2017, 10:20:35 PM »

Offline Jvalin

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I know a lot of people are totally against trading Thomas, and I understand. He's been incredible this season. But if the front office decides the cost of retaining him is going to outweigh the benefits and it comes to trading him, what is his value?

Would you trade IT for Aaron Gordon and the #6? How about for Saric and the Lakers pick next year? Would you trade IT for Gordon or Saric straight up?

None of these trades is a possibility, Philadelphia and Orlando won't even think about them. I'd happily trade IT for Saric, a savvy player on a rookie contract and good fit in our passing-oriented system. But that's not happening.
How can you be so sure they wouldn't do it? 

Draftexpress has the Sixers drafting Jackson at #3 so it's highly likely they 'll still be in need of a point guard on draft night. With Simmons coming back healthy, it's only logical to assume that Saric won't be their starting PF for the future.

The C's move on from Amir (and free up enough cap space to go after Hayward) and the Sixers get a starting point guard who can finally lead their young team to the playoffs (just like he did in Boston).

IT
3+D shooting guard
Jackson
Simmons
Embiid

That's definitely a playoff team in my book (and a fun team to watch as well).
Why would the Sixers give up Saric and the Lakers 2018 pick (probable top 5) for a 1 year rental?  There's a good chance IT would just walk after a year.   The Sixers have a lot of options for how they can proceed but giving up really good assets for IT is one of the dumbest moves they could make.  Their playoff chances hinge on Embiid's health not on getting IT.  BTW, the Sixers have a 3+D guy in Covington.   

The Sixers need to maintain their flexibility.  If Embiid can't stay healthy, the Lakers pick gives them a shot at another good big.  If he does, it gives them a shot at Donkic or Porter.  The Sixers have a chance to be really special if Embiid stays healthy and Colangelo doesn't screw it up.
Never said they would trade Saric + the Lakers pick for IT.

Saric for IT straight up

That's what I 'm talking about.

Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2017, 10:28:40 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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INJURED PLAYERS DONT GET TRADED

Is this something new?  Since it has happened too many times to list, including players coming here either injured (e.g. Raef) or off injury/surgery (e.g. Shuttlesworth).

And it doesn't look like IT is dealing with anything catastrophic.

Just a hypothetical anyway. So relax, take it easy, go for a walk, maybe read a book....and leave the caps lock alone.
Injured players do get traded it's just exceedingly rare. So when you consider that IT was VERY unlikely to be traded pre-injury, this injury makes it extemely unlikely that thomas is traded.

Despite this we've seen like 10 trades discussing trading Thomas in the last 2 days

He's not getting traded. Simple as that.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2017, 10:36:38 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Injured, healthy - he's not getting traded.

Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2017, 02:59:11 PM »

Offline Big333223

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Never said they would trade Saric + the Lakers pick for IT.

Saric for IT straight up

That's what I 'm talking about.
Given what IT's next contract is likely to be and the unlikelihood of him living up to it, I think I'd do that trade.

I don't know if the Sixers would consider it. If Hinkie was still around, I don't think they'd do it. But Colangello might be more interested in bringing in vet talent to start winning games now. And if he thinks he won't get the PG he wants in the draft and is concerned that Saric and Simmons really play the same position, I can see a world where the Sixers do it.

Mostly, though, I'm fascinated by the range of opinions in this thread on what IT's value is and whether he should be traded at all and on just how passionate everyone seems to be about it.
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Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2017, 03:27:46 PM »

Offline PhoSita

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His trade value is less than his value to the Celts.

Hence, he will not be traded.
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Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #24 on: June 01, 2017, 07:48:34 AM »

Offline jay

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Phoenix has the right assets - future Miami picks and multiple young players. They will not want to trade a ton for IT after giving him away previously.

What about trading him to the Lakers in a 3 way trade?

Lakers send DeAngelo Russell and Larry Nance Jr. along with #28 pick to Phoenix.

Boston gets Chriss, Barbosa (non-guarenteed contract) and a couple of picks involving #4, Phoenix's 2019, Heats 2018, Heats 2021, or Phoenix's 2021.


Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2017, 07:59:04 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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Phoenix has the right assets - future Miami picks and multiple young players. They will not want to trade a ton for IT after giving him away previously.

What about trading him to the Lakers in a 3 way trade?

Lakers send DeAngelo Russell and Larry Nance Jr. along with #28 pick to Phoenix.

Boston gets Chriss, Barbosa (non-guarenteed contract) and a couple of picks involving #4, Phoenix's 2019, Heats 2018, Heats 2021, or Phoenix's 2021.
IT for Chriss + #4 + one more pick? You live in a fantasy land.

Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #26 on: June 01, 2017, 08:35:28 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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Phoenix has the right assets - future Miami picks and multiple young players. They will not want to trade a ton for IT after giving him away previously.

What about trading him to the Lakers in a 3 way trade?

Lakers send DeAngelo Russell and Larry Nance Jr. along with #28 pick to Phoenix.

Boston gets Chriss, Barbosa (non-guarenteed contract) and a couple of picks involving #4, Phoenix's 2019, Heats 2018, Heats 2021, or Phoenix's 2021.

Why would the Lakers send two young players and a 1st round for IT?

How can we get Chriss, nº 4 or even one of them for IT?

This is nonsense.

Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #27 on: June 01, 2017, 09:17:18 AM »

Offline CFAN38

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If it comes down to trading IT I suspect his value will be similar to that of Ibaka. This may be a hard pill for many to swallow.

Ibaka trade value on draft night = Oladipo + Ilyasova + #11 Pick (Sabonis)

Ibaka trade value at deadline = Ross + #25


I fear IT may actually have a slightly lower value based off of positional value. As good as IT is he plays a position that is easily filled in the current NBA. Most teams have a starting caliber PG and this draft will likely add another 3-4 to the league. Ibaka players perhaps the toughest position to fill in the modern NBA with a skill set that is very unique. Very few players are capable of providing rim protection with solid switching ability and can stretch the floor on offense.

As for possible trades based around the above value I see the following as viable but very unlikely (not factoring in FA implications and summer cap options). 

Draft night trades for IT

Dallas trades Powell or Harris + #9 (really depends on how they review Curry and Ferrell long term)

Detriot trades Morris (ugh) or Johnson + #12 ( they seem to want a win now trade)

Orlando trades Watson + #6      (doubt they go down this road again after Ibaka mess)

The deadline deals are tough to guess at because of the draft and FA variables.


   


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Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #28 on: June 01, 2017, 09:21:08 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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The teams that would most want a player like IT are the teams with the least assets. 



A team that is close would love to add IT and his 6 million dollar contract, but would have little to offer a Celtics team that doesn't need depth pieces. 

Re: If it Comes to it, What is IT's Trade Value?
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2017, 09:26:55 AM »

Offline Jvalin

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If it comes down to trading IT I suspect his value will be similar to that of Ibaka. This may be a hard pill for many to swallow.

Ibaka trade value on draft night = Oladipo + Ilyasova + #11 Pick (Sabonis)

Ibaka trade value at deadline = Ross + #25


I fear IT may actually have a slightly lower value based off of positional value. As good as IT is he plays a position that is easily filled in the current NBA. Most teams have a starting caliber PG and this draft will likely add another 3-4 to the league. Ibaka players perhaps the toughest position to fill in the modern NBA with a skill set that is very unique. Very few players are capable of providing rim protection with solid switching ability and can stretch the floor on offense.

As for possible trades based around the above value I see the following as viable but very unlikely (not factoring in FA implications and summer cap options). 

Draft night trades for IT

Dallas trades Powell or Harris + #9 (really depends on how they review Curry and Ferrell long term)

Detriot trades Morris (ugh) or Johnson + #12 ( they seem to want a win now trade)

Orlando trades Watson + #6      (doubt they go down this road again after Ibaka mess)

The deadline deals are tough to guess at because of the draft and FA variables.


 
The Orlando GM got fired. I bet the main reason behind that decision was the Ibaka trade. Don't see any GM making the same mistake this year.

Imo, IT for Saric (or IT for #9) is as good of a return as we could possibly expect for IT.