Author Topic: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"  (Read 13725 times)

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Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #45 on: June 09, 2017, 06:53:50 PM »

Offline footey

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In terms of competitors, it's fair to expect more from people playing in Europe than in college.

With all due respect, I simply do not believe this to be a fact.   A lot more NBA greats have come from US colleges.   Also, the amateur record of USA college kids against the pros of Europe in the Olympics speaks otherwise.  Now I do not have the statistics for the just the amatuer team so this has the NBA pros but that is a 20 year old development.

....

The analysis, as much work as you put into it (TP), is pretty uninformative.

You correctly note that US college kids have beaten Euro pros in the Olympics - but all those data are from before 1992, right? And we can all agree that the European game has gotten much better since then, particularly in terms of overall depth. So the old data don't tell us anything of real value.

The fact that our pros beat their pros, now, doesn't reveal anything about the quality of college here vs. Euro leagues either, we should be able to agree on that.

It is true that the best Euro teams are competitive with the best NBA teams (55-13 record since 2010). Would college teams have the same records against the Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Thunder etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#Game_results_Euroleague_Basketball_era_.282003.E2.80.93present.29

The best comparison would be US college teams now vs. Euroleague teams now. We don't have data on that as far as I can tell, but here's an article discussing views of players who've been in both:

http://hoopshype.com/2015/04/03/would-kentucky-beat-an-average-euroleague-team/

Note that is about an average Euro team, and it's being compared to the very best of the NCAA, and most players call it even or give the edge to the Euros.

False.  The best comparison to the Euroleagues are probably the Chinese leagues because that's where washed up NBA players and College players that aren't good enough to get paid in the States can go and dominate.  Comparing the Euroleague to College is silly because the College game produces over 90% of NBA players while the Euroleagues account for probably under 5%.

Sorry, but Zizic is a short, non shooting, non shot-blocking center... In today's game he's irrelevant.  He'll be good for holding down the bench cheaply.  Only Danny Ainge would pick an undersized, unskilled, European because they have a good "motor."

Respectfully think your way off IDreamCeltics, you can't compare the Euroleague and it's rich history to the Chinese League.

During the last lockout guys like JR Smith and Wilson Chandler were dropping 40+ point triple doubles in China. They wouldn't have been able to do anything like that in the Euroleague. Euroleague teams play capable defense and run complex systems that in no way resemble the glorified exhibition games in the CBA.

Sure the NBA gets almost all of its players from college but we're not talking about 90% of the players in the NBA, we're talking about the giants and the Euroleague has been producing some of the best Centers in the league for years.

When you look at the success of international bigs like Jokic, Nurkic, the Gasols, Nowitski, Porzingis, Adams, Antetokoumpo, Vucevic, Kanter, Valanciunas, Pachulia, Nene, Splitter, etc. How are you going to honestly say with a strait face that Zizic is irrelevant before he steps on the court? Some serious arrogance right there friend.

Also in what world is 6'11, 7'2 wingspan. 9'3 standing reach 249 pounds undersized?
 http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ante-Zizic-68722/

Zizic easily has starter upside, and he's even got the pedigree. He's been living basketball since he was a kid, his brother Andrija Zizic played 18 years in the international scene. Nearly 50% of today's NBA players are related to elite athletes, they know what kind of work ethic it takes to succeed and are connected to the best coaches to help put them in a position to succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anticipating multiple All Star appearances but there's isn't much reason to back up your speculation that Ante is going to go be irrelevant either. I know it's been mentioned a lot around here but several scouts this year have reportedly stated that his play would have made him a top 10 pick in a deep 2017 draft. Think they would be giving a cheap option to hold down the bench a mid lotto grade?

Right but no ACTUAL NBA scouts have ever said that.  It's just a rumor Kevin Pelton and Kevin O'Connor made up to generate hits.  You'll notice they never name a team the scouts are associated with, or even specify that they're NBA level scouts. 

If this were 2011 when Enes Kanter, Jan Vessely, and Jonas Valanciunas all got drafted in the top 10 I could totally buy that Zizic might be a lottery pick.  The thing is The Jazz, Wizards, and Raptors all DEEPLY regret those picks.  Those guys are all bums who don't matter in the NBA - which is unfortunate since they're the players who Zizic most resembles. 

basically I think people need to wake up and realize that it's 2017 and if you can't hit the 3 as a big, and you can't defend the rim, you're not going in the lottery.

And it's not even like Zizic has been dominant on any level.  He's 20 years old, that's a college Junior, and he averaged 9 points and 6.7 rebounds playing 22 mpg in the Euroleague.  If any college player had played their junior season in Europe and put up those numbers we'd be labeling them a D-league candidate (Best wishes Colton Iverson).

The reality of the situation is that it will be a miracle if this kid is even a bench player for the Celtics at some point in his career.

Sincerest Apologies.

You kind of shot your credibility by calling him short and undersized LOL.

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #46 on: June 09, 2017, 06:58:01 PM »

Offline Granath

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The reality of the situation is that it will be a miracle if this kid is even a bench player for the Celtics at some point in his career.

Sincerest Apologies.

The only apologies that need to be offered are for the few brain cells in your head. I'm sorry they're so lonely. Though it's quite entertaining to watch you squirm and move the goal posts every time.

This kid will be a bench player for the Celtics this coming year. It's not even in dispute.
Jaylen Brown will be an All Star in the next 5 years.

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #47 on: June 09, 2017, 06:59:02 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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yup, when you called him undersized you kinda revealed that you had know idea what you were talking about.
Quote from: George W. Bush
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Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #48 on: June 09, 2017, 07:11:03 PM »

Offline gouki88

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In terms of competitors, it's fair to expect more from people playing in Europe than in college.

With all due respect, I simply do not believe this to be a fact.   A lot more NBA greats have come from US colleges.   Also, the amateur record of USA college kids against the pros of Europe in the Olympics speaks otherwise.  Now I do not have the statistics for the just the amatuer team so this has the NBA pros but that is a 20 year old development.

....

The analysis, as much work as you put into it (TP), is pretty uninformative.

You correctly note that US college kids have beaten Euro pros in the Olympics - but all those data are from before 1992, right? And we can all agree that the European game has gotten much better since then, particularly in terms of overall depth. So the old data don't tell us anything of real value.

The fact that our pros beat their pros, now, doesn't reveal anything about the quality of college here vs. Euro leagues either, we should be able to agree on that.

It is true that the best Euro teams are competitive with the best NBA teams (55-13 record since 2010). Would college teams have the same records against the Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Thunder etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#Game_results_Euroleague_Basketball_era_.282003.E2.80.93present.29

The best comparison would be US college teams now vs. Euroleague teams now. We don't have data on that as far as I can tell, but here's an article discussing views of players who've been in both:

http://hoopshype.com/2015/04/03/would-kentucky-beat-an-average-euroleague-team/

Note that is about an average Euro team, and it's being compared to the very best of the NCAA, and most players call it even or give the edge to the Euros.

False.  The best comparison to the Euroleagues are probably the Chinese leagues because that's where washed up NBA players and College players that aren't good enough to get paid in the States can go and dominate.  Comparing the Euroleague to College is silly because the College game produces over 90% of NBA players while the Euroleagues account for probably under 5%.

Sorry, but Zizic is a short, non shooting, non shot-blocking center... In today's game he's irrelevant.  He'll be good for holding down the bench cheaply.  Only Danny Ainge would pick an undersized, unskilled, European because they have a good "motor."

Respectfully think your way off IDreamCeltics, you can't compare the Euroleague and it's rich history to the Chinese League.

During the last lockout guys like JR Smith and Wilson Chandler were dropping 40+ point triple doubles in China. They wouldn't have been able to do anything like that in the Euroleague. Euroleague teams play capable defense and run complex systems that in no way resemble the glorified exhibition games in the CBA.

Sure the NBA gets almost all of its players from college but we're not talking about 90% of the players in the NBA, we're talking about the giants and the Euroleague has been producing some of the best Centers in the league for years.

When you look at the success of international bigs like Jokic, Nurkic, the Gasols, Nowitski, Porzingis, Adams, Antetokoumpo, Vucevic, Kanter, Valanciunas, Pachulia, Nene, Splitter, etc. How are you going to honestly say with a strait face that Zizic is irrelevant before he steps on the court? Some serious arrogance right there friend.

Also in what world is 6'11, 7'2 wingspan. 9'3 standing reach 249 pounds undersized?
 http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ante-Zizic-68722/

Zizic easily has starter upside, and he's even got the pedigree. He's been living basketball since he was a kid, his brother Andrija Zizic played 18 years in the international scene. Nearly 50% of today's NBA players are related to elite athletes, they know what kind of work ethic it takes to succeed and are connected to the best coaches to help put them in a position to succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anticipating multiple All Star appearances but there's isn't much reason to back up your speculation that Ante is going to go be irrelevant either. I know it's been mentioned a lot around here but several scouts this year have reportedly stated that his play would have made him a top 10 pick in a deep 2017 draft. Think they would be giving a cheap option to hold down the bench a mid lotto grade?

Right but no ACTUAL NBA scouts have ever said that.  It's just a rumor Kevin Pelton and Kevin O'Connor made up to generate hits.  You'll notice they never name a team the scouts are associated with, or even specify that they're NBA level scouts. 

If this were 2011 when Enes Kanter, Jan Vessely, and Jonas Valanciunas all got drafted in the top 10 I could totally buy that Zizic might be a lottery pick.  The thing is The Jazz, Wizards, and Raptors all DEEPLY regret those picks.  Those guys are all bums who don't matter in the NBA - which is unfortunate since they're the players who Zizic most resembles. 

basically I think people need to wake up and realize that it's 2017 and if you can't hit the 3 as a big, and you can't defend the rim, you're not going in the lottery.

And it's not even like Zizic has been dominant on any level.  He's 20 years old, that's a college Junior, and he averaged 9 points and 6.7 rebounds playing 22 mpg in the Euroleague.  If any college player had played their junior season in Europe and put up those numbers we'd be labeling them a D-league candidate (Best wishes Colton Iverson).

The reality of the situation is that it will be a miracle if this kid is even a bench player for the Celtics at some point in his career.

Sincerest Apologies.
You keep digging a deeper hole for yourself man, just stop.

Those two guys you listed as "deeply" regrettable picks are both good players and solid starters on playoff teams - what one earth are you actually talking about?

Please, enough.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #49 on: June 09, 2017, 07:13:58 PM »

Offline Kaz

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If this were 2011 when Enes Kanter, Jan Vessely, and Jonas Valanciunas all got drafted in the top 10 I could totally buy that Zizic might be a lottery pick.  The thing is The Jazz, Wizards, and Raptors all DEEPLY regret those picks.  Those guys are all bums who don't matter in the NBA - which is unfortunate since they're the players who Zizic most resembles. 

Vassely, certainly.  Kanter and JV are capable bigs off the bench though.  If you can manage to temper expectations for Zizic, he should deliver well for a late first rounder if his comparable is Kanter or JV. 

For instance, Kanter is a stark minus at defense, but his pick and roll game with Westbrook can be very effective - imagine the same with IT4/Fultz.  If Zizic can manage to be a better defender than Kanter (a not so tall task that I think he is more than capable of fulfilling), he should certainly find his way into the rotation.

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #50 on: June 09, 2017, 07:32:47 PM »

Offline greg683x

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How can you not get excited about this kid? I mean look at the highlights film linked below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As11kyuiP9s

Beyond his nasty and willingness to get dirty down low, what strikes me about this kid is his ambidextrous nature. Watching that film, I seriously couldn't tell you if he is righty or lefty.

This kid has a very promising future. Could be a major steal for us.

im sorry for being such a pessimist but why is this video supposed to get me excited???  i only made it half way through, I can only watch so many layups from point blank range and uncontested dunks
Greg

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #51 on: June 09, 2017, 07:35:53 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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In terms of competitors, it's fair to expect more from people playing in Europe than in college.

With all due respect, I simply do not believe this to be a fact.   A lot more NBA greats have come from US colleges.   Also, the amateur record of USA college kids against the pros of Europe in the Olympics speaks otherwise.  Now I do not have the statistics for the just the amatuer team so this has the NBA pros but that is a 20 year old development.

....

The analysis, as much work as you put into it (TP), is pretty uninformative.

You correctly note that US college kids have beaten Euro pros in the Olympics - but all those data are from before 1992, right? And we can all agree that the European game has gotten much better since then, particularly in terms of overall depth. So the old data don't tell us anything of real value.

The fact that our pros beat their pros, now, doesn't reveal anything about the quality of college here vs. Euro leagues either, we should be able to agree on that.

It is true that the best Euro teams are competitive with the best NBA teams (55-13 record since 2010). Would college teams have the same records against the Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Thunder etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#Game_results_Euroleague_Basketball_era_.282003.E2.80.93present.29

The best comparison would be US college teams now vs. Euroleague teams now. We don't have data on that as far as I can tell, but here's an article discussing views of players who've been in both:

http://hoopshype.com/2015/04/03/would-kentucky-beat-an-average-euroleague-team/

Note that is about an average Euro team, and it's being compared to the very best of the NCAA, and most players call it even or give the edge to the Euros.

False.  The best comparison to the Euroleagues are probably the Chinese leagues because that's where washed up NBA players and College players that aren't good enough to get paid in the States can go and dominate.  Comparing the Euroleague to College is silly because the College game produces over 90% of NBA players while the Euroleagues account for probably under 5%.

Sorry, but Zizic is a short, non shooting, non shot-blocking center... In today's game he's irrelevant.  He'll be good for holding down the bench cheaply.  Only Danny Ainge would pick an undersized, unskilled, European because they have a good "motor."

Respectfully think your way off IDreamCeltics, you can't compare the Euroleague and it's rich history to the Chinese League.

During the last lockout guys like JR Smith and Wilson Chandler were dropping 40+ point triple doubles in China. They wouldn't have been able to do anything like that in the Euroleague. Euroleague teams play capable defense and run complex systems that in no way resemble the glorified exhibition games in the CBA.

Sure the NBA gets almost all of its players from college but we're not talking about 90% of the players in the NBA, we're talking about the giants and the Euroleague has been producing some of the best Centers in the league for years.

When you look at the success of international bigs like Jokic, Nurkic, the Gasols, Nowitski, Porzingis, Adams, Antetokoumpo, Vucevic, Kanter, Valanciunas, Pachulia, Nene, Splitter, etc. How are you going to honestly say with a strait face that Zizic is irrelevant before he steps on the court? Some serious arrogance right there friend.

Also in what world is 6'11, 7'2 wingspan. 9'3 standing reach 249 pounds undersized?
 http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ante-Zizic-68722/

Zizic easily has starter upside, and he's even got the pedigree. He's been living basketball since he was a kid, his brother Andrija Zizic played 18 years in the international scene. Nearly 50% of today's NBA players are related to elite athletes, they know what kind of work ethic it takes to succeed and are connected to the best coaches to help put them in a position to succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anticipating multiple All Star appearances but there's isn't much reason to back up your speculation that Ante is going to go be irrelevant either. I know it's been mentioned a lot around here but several scouts this year have reportedly stated that his play would have made him a top 10 pick in a deep 2017 draft. Think they would be giving a cheap option to hold down the bench a mid lotto grade?

Right but no ACTUAL NBA scouts have ever said that.  It's just a rumor Kevin Pelton and Kevin O'Connor made up to generate hits.  You'll notice they never name a team the scouts are associated with, or even specify that they're NBA level scouts. 

If this were 2011 when Enes Kanter, Jan Vessely, and Jonas Valanciunas all got drafted in the top 10 I could totally buy that Zizic might be a lottery pick.  The thing is The Jazz, Wizards, and Raptors all DEEPLY regret those picks.  Those guys are all bums who don't matter in the NBA - which is unfortunate since they're the players who Zizic most resembles. 

basically I think people need to wake up and realize that it's 2017 and if you can't hit the 3 as a big, and you can't defend the rim, you're not going in the lottery.

And it's not even like Zizic has been dominant on any level.  He's 20 years old, that's a college Junior, and he averaged 9 points and 6.7 rebounds playing 22 mpg in the Euroleague.  If any college player had played their junior season in Europe and put up those numbers we'd be labeling them a D-league candidate (Best wishes Colton Iverson).

The reality of the situation is that it will be a miracle if this kid is even a bench player for the Celtics at some point in his career.

Sincerest Apologies.
You keep digging a deeper hole for yourself man, just stop.

Those two guys you listed as "deeply" regrettable picks are both good players and solid starters on playoff teams - what one earth are you actually talking about?

Please, enough.
Kanter has started 1 game in the last 2 seasons.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #52 on: June 09, 2017, 07:54:44 PM »

Offline Smartacus

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In terms of competitors, it's fair to expect more from people playing in Europe than in college.

With all due respect, I simply do not believe this to be a fact.   A lot more NBA greats have come from US colleges.   Also, the amateur record of USA college kids against the pros of Europe in the Olympics speaks otherwise.  Now I do not have the statistics for the just the amatuer team so this has the NBA pros but that is a 20 year old development.

....

The analysis, as much work as you put into it (TP), is pretty uninformative.

You correctly note that US college kids have beaten Euro pros in the Olympics - but all those data are from before 1992, right? And we can all agree that the European game has gotten much better since then, particularly in terms of overall depth. So the old data don't tell us anything of real value.

The fact that our pros beat their pros, now, doesn't reveal anything about the quality of college here vs. Euro leagues either, we should be able to agree on that.

It is true that the best Euro teams are competitive with the best NBA teams (55-13 record since 2010). Would college teams have the same records against the Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Thunder etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#Game_results_Euroleague_Basketball_era_.282003.E2.80.93present.29

The best comparison would be US college teams now vs. Euroleague teams now. We don't have data on that as far as I can tell, but here's an article discussing views of players who've been in both:

http://hoopshype.com/2015/04/03/would-kentucky-beat-an-average-euroleague-team/

Note that is about an average Euro team, and it's being compared to the very best of the NCAA, and most players call it even or give the edge to the Euros.

False.  The best comparison to the Euroleagues are probably the Chinese leagues because that's where washed up NBA players and College players that aren't good enough to get paid in the States can go and dominate.  Comparing the Euroleague to College is silly because the College game produces over 90% of NBA players while the Euroleagues account for probably under 5%.

Sorry, but Zizic is a short, non shooting, non shot-blocking center... In today's game he's irrelevant.  He'll be good for holding down the bench cheaply.  Only Danny Ainge would pick an undersized, unskilled, European because they have a good "motor."

Respectfully think your way off IDreamCeltics, you can't compare the Euroleague and it's rich history to the Chinese League.

During the last lockout guys like JR Smith and Wilson Chandler were dropping 40+ point triple doubles in China. They wouldn't have been able to do anything like that in the Euroleague. Euroleague teams play capable defense and run complex systems that in no way resemble the glorified exhibition games in the CBA.

Sure the NBA gets almost all of its players from college but we're not talking about 90% of the players in the NBA, we're talking about the giants and the Euroleague has been producing some of the best Centers in the league for years.

When you look at the success of international bigs like Jokic, Nurkic, the Gasols, Nowitski, Porzingis, Adams, Antetokoumpo, Vucevic, Kanter, Valanciunas, Pachulia, Nene, Splitter, etc. How are you going to honestly say with a strait face that Zizic is irrelevant before he steps on the court? Some serious arrogance right there friend.

Also in what world is 6'11, 7'2 wingspan. 9'3 standing reach 249 pounds undersized?
 http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ante-Zizic-68722/

Zizic easily has starter upside, and he's even got the pedigree. He's been living basketball since he was a kid, his brother Andrija Zizic played 18 years in the international scene. Nearly 50% of today's NBA players are related to elite athletes, they know what kind of work ethic it takes to succeed and are connected to the best coaches to help put them in a position to succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anticipating multiple All Star appearances but there's isn't much reason to back up your speculation that Ante is going to go be irrelevant either. I know it's been mentioned a lot around here but several scouts this year have reportedly stated that his play would have made him a top 10 pick in a deep 2017 draft. Think they would be giving a cheap option to hold down the bench a mid lotto grade?

Right but no ACTUAL NBA scouts have ever said that.  It's just a rumor Kevin Pelton and Kevin O'Connor made up to generate hits.  You'll notice they never name a team the scouts are associated with, or even specify that they're NBA level scouts. 

If this were 2011 when Enes Kanter, Jan Vessely, and Jonas Valanciunas all got drafted in the top 10 I could totally buy that Zizic might be a lottery pick.  The thing is The Jazz, Wizards, and Raptors all DEEPLY regret those picks.  Those guys are all bums who don't matter in the NBA - which is unfortunate since they're the players who Zizic most resembles. 

basically I think people need to wake up and realize that it's 2017 and if you can't hit the 3 as a big, and you can't defend the rim, you're not going in the lottery.

And it's not even like Zizic has been dominant on any level.  He's 20 years old, that's a college Junior, and he averaged 9 points and 6.7 rebounds playing 22 mpg in the Euroleague.  If any college player had played their junior season in Europe and put up those numbers we'd be labeling them a D-league candidate (Best wishes Colton Iverson).

The reality of the situation is that it will be a miracle if this kid is even a bench player for the Celtics at some point in his career.

Sincerest Apologies.

You kind of shot your credibility by calling him short and undersized LOL.

Only Kevin O'Connor and anonymous scouts eh? Sam Vecenie just tweeted this out today sounds like he clearly thinks Zizic is a fringe NBA player...

Quote
I would probably have Zizic No. 11-13 in this class. Below Markkanen, in range with Mitchell/Kennard.

https://twitter.com/Sam_Vecenie/status/873221008165027840

Again the apology is just speaking out of arrogance. Your acting as if your word is definitive.

If you want to come at me in a year or two in the event that Zizic is just barely scraping by and give me a smug sarcastic apology that's your prerogative, but until then your guess is as good as mine.

If you don't see the distinction... well then my sincerest apologies.

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #53 on: June 09, 2017, 08:01:53 PM »

Offline Emmette Bryant

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So I was watching Zizic play and many times after his teammates would miss a shot he would jump up into the air and take possession of the ball. Is that legal? What do you guys think of that?

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #54 on: June 09, 2017, 08:05:07 PM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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The analysis, as much work as you put into it (TP), is pretty uninformative.

That is because most people know the US college kids killed the rest of the world and it is no secret.   I get those of you from Europe are proud of your basketball heritage but that does not mean you have not accept the truth.   We have dominated the competition for the main part.   That is why your best want to come here to play in NBA but only our scrubs go to play in your leagues.


Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #55 on: June 09, 2017, 08:14:11 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Quote
In terms of competitors, it's fair to expect more from people playing in Europe than in college.

With all due respect, I simply do not believe this to be a fact.   A lot more NBA greats have come from US colleges.   Also, the amateur record of USA college kids against the pros of Europe in the Olympics speaks otherwise.  Now I do not have the statistics for the just the amatuer team so this has the NBA pros but that is a 20 year old development.

....

The analysis, as much work as you put into it (TP), is pretty uninformative.

You correctly note that US college kids have beaten Euro pros in the Olympics - but all those data are from before 1992, right? And we can all agree that the European game has gotten much better since then, particularly in terms of overall depth. So the old data don't tell us anything of real value.

The fact that our pros beat their pros, now, doesn't reveal anything about the quality of college here vs. Euro leagues either, we should be able to agree on that.

It is true that the best Euro teams are competitive with the best NBA teams (55-13 record since 2010). Would college teams have the same records against the Spurs, Celtics, Lakers, Thunder etc.?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NBA_versus_EuroLeague_games#Game_results_Euroleague_Basketball_era_.282003.E2.80.93present.29

The best comparison would be US college teams now vs. Euroleague teams now. We don't have data on that as far as I can tell, but here's an article discussing views of players who've been in both:

http://hoopshype.com/2015/04/03/would-kentucky-beat-an-average-euroleague-team/

Note that is about an average Euro team, and it's being compared to the very best of the NCAA, and most players call it even or give the edge to the Euros.

False.  The best comparison to the Euroleagues are probably the Chinese leagues because that's where washed up NBA players and College players that aren't good enough to get paid in the States can go and dominate.  Comparing the Euroleague to College is silly because the College game produces over 90% of NBA players while the Euroleagues account for probably under 5%.

Sorry, but Zizic is a short, non shooting, non shot-blocking center... In today's game he's irrelevant.  He'll be good for holding down the bench cheaply.  Only Danny Ainge would pick an undersized, unskilled, European because they have a good "motor."

Respectfully think your way off IDreamCeltics, you can't compare the Euroleague and it's rich history to the Chinese League.

During the last lockout guys like JR Smith and Wilson Chandler were dropping 40+ point triple doubles in China. They wouldn't have been able to do anything like that in the Euroleague. Euroleague teams play capable defense and run complex systems that in no way resemble the glorified exhibition games in the CBA.

Sure the NBA gets almost all of its players from college but we're not talking about 90% of the players in the NBA, we're talking about the giants and the Euroleague has been producing some of the best Centers in the league for years.

When you look at the success of international bigs like Jokic, Nurkic, the Gasols, Nowitski, Porzingis, Adams, Antetokoumpo, Vucevic, Kanter, Valanciunas, Pachulia, Nene, Splitter, etc. How are you going to honestly say with a strait face that Zizic is irrelevant before he steps on the court? Some serious arrogance right there friend.

Also in what world is 6'11, 7'2 wingspan. 9'3 standing reach 249 pounds undersized?
 http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Ante-Zizic-68722/

Zizic easily has starter upside, and he's even got the pedigree. He's been living basketball since he was a kid, his brother Andrija Zizic played 18 years in the international scene. Nearly 50% of today's NBA players are related to elite athletes, they know what kind of work ethic it takes to succeed and are connected to the best coaches to help put them in a position to succeed.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not anticipating multiple All Star appearances but there's isn't much reason to back up your speculation that Ante is going to go be irrelevant either. I know it's been mentioned a lot around here but several scouts this year have reportedly stated that his play would have made him a top 10 pick in a deep 2017 draft. Think they would be giving a cheap option to hold down the bench a mid lotto grade?

Right but no ACTUAL NBA scouts have ever said that.  It's just a rumor Kevin Pelton and Kevin O'Connor made up to generate hits.  You'll notice they never name a team the scouts are associated with, or even specify that they're NBA level scouts. 

If this were 2011 when Enes Kanter, Jan Vessely, and Jonas Valanciunas all got drafted in the top 10 I could totally buy that Zizic might be a lottery pick.  The thing is The Jazz, Wizards, and Raptors all DEEPLY regret those picks.  Those guys are all bums who don't matter in the NBA - which is unfortunate since they're the players who Zizic most resembles. 

basically I think people need to wake up and realize that it's 2017 and if you can't hit the 3 as a big, and you can't defend the rim, you're not going in the lottery.

And it's not even like Zizic has been dominant on any level.  He's 20 years old, that's a college Junior, and he averaged 9 points and 6.7 rebounds playing 22 mpg in the Euroleague.  If any college player had played their junior season in Europe and put up those numbers we'd be labeling them a D-league candidate (Best wishes Colton Iverson).

The reality of the situation is that it will be a miracle if this kid is even a bench player for the Celtics at some point in his career.

Sincerest Apologies.
You keep digging a deeper hole for yourself man, just stop.

Those two guys you listed as "deeply" regrettable picks are both good players and solid starters on playoff teams - what one earth are you actually talking about?

Please, enough.
Kanter has started 1 game in the last 2 seasons.
While averaging 14 points and 8 rebounds. So you're right that he's not a starter, and still wrong on everything else.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #56 on: June 10, 2017, 03:39:45 AM »

Offline iadera

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Goodbye Zeller and Amir...or should I say good riddance-?
It's better to think of him as a replacement for Zeller or Mickey, in terms of the role on the team which is likely "big man at the end of the bench".

Amir's replacement better be starting or first big off the bench.

Not necessarily. Zubac had a solid year for the Lakers and Zizic is said to be the superior player/prospect. Besides the way Amir looked the last few months of the season, I'm not sure he could even play in the Euroleague.


And he's better than Zubac at the moment. Zubac played for small teams so far in Europe. Zizic has experiance of Euroleague which is very tough competition and he had solid numbers. If we don't sign some name at C, I think Zizic is a starter-nominee.

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #57 on: June 10, 2017, 05:18:35 AM »

Offline Somebody

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Goodbye Zeller and Amir...or should I say good riddance-?
It's better to think of him as a replacement for Zeller or Mickey, in terms of the role on the team which is likely "big man at the end of the bench".

Amir's replacement better be starting or first big off the bench.

Not necessarily. Zubac had a solid year for the Lakers and Zizic is said to be the superior player/prospect. Besides the way Amir looked the last few months of the season, I'm not sure he could even play in the Euroleague.


And he's better than Zubac at the moment. Zubac played for small teams so far in Europe. Zizic has experiance of Euroleague which is very tough competition and he had solid numbers. If we don't sign some name at C, I think Zizic is a starter-nominee.
Guys don't realize that he led a Turkish team to a victory over Real Madrid (arguably the best non nba in the world) with Mr.Celticsblog GOAT Luka Doncic (I really don't get why guys who don't like Fultz crown him as the next best thing) while putting up monster stats.
Jaylen Brown for All-NBA

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #58 on: June 10, 2017, 08:25:58 AM »

Offline Celts Fan 508

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So I was watching Zizic play and many times after his teammates would miss a shot he would jump up into the air and take possession of the ball. Is that legal? What do you guys think of that?

So his teammates miss and he jumps up and grabs the ball, I don't remember seeing that from any Celtic player last season.... 
2019 historical draft.  Pick 12

Tim Duncan, Oscar Robertson, Elgin Baylor, Scottie Pippen, Willis Reed, Mitch Richmond, Sam Jones, Dan Majerle, Bob Cousy, Rasheed Wallace, Shawn Kemp, Marcus Camby

Re: Zizic: "this summer I'm going to the NBA for sure"
« Reply #59 on: June 10, 2017, 08:29:59 AM »

Offline mqtcelticsfan

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So I was watching Zizic play and many times after his teammates would miss a shot he would jump up into the air and take possession of the ball. Is that legal? What do you guys think of that?

This could be revolutionary. I was under the impression that once you missed a shot you automatically go back to playing defense. Unless you're a team that isn't the Celtics, that is.