Author Topic: How much would rumored targets have changed 2017 playoff run for Celtics?  (Read 2747 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
The Celtics were tied to Cousins, Butler, George, Ibaka, Noel, Tucker, and Melo over the course of the trade deadline season. Build your template for the expected deal and how much you think the deal would have changed our playoff fortunes.

My attempt:

Cousins: Rozier+ Nets '17 + Salary --> sweep Bulls, take Wiz in 6, lose in 6 to Cavs OR beat Bulls in 7, lose to Wiz in 5 if he is the cancer AInge thought he was

Butler: Nets '17 + Crowder--> sweep round 1, Wiz in 5, cavs defeat us in 5, 6 if Marcus pulls another game out of his ass

George: Nets '17 + Crowder + Brown or Nets '18--> sweep Round 1, Wiz in 5, Cavs in 6

Ibaka: Rozier and non-nets 1sts --> Bulls series in 5, Wiz series in 6, Cavs result not changed, but less embarassing

Noel: Non-nets protected first+Rozier --> beat Bulls in 5, Wizards in 5, Cavs result same, but much closer games. In fact its possible we steal game 5 if we had had a rim-protector during Kyrie's takeover

Tucker: handful of second rounders--> no notable change

Melo: Rozier, a non-nets pick, and salary(Amir+Zeller+Jonas?)--> Sweep Bulls, Wiz series goes 6, cavs series is much closer and probably still ends in 5, but that 5 is less of an anomoly and more of a genuinem deserved team win.

most of these are just guesses and Im definitely happy Ainge stood pat. What do you guys think?

Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Offline Darío SpanishFan

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 981
  • Tommy Points: 141
The outcome would have been the same, at home in the ECF. Still far away from the Cavs and Warriors, so glad Ainge didn't waste any asset.

TP for the time thinking.

Offline Phantom255x

  • Larry Bird
  • *****************************
  • Posts: 29510
  • Tommy Points: 2923
  • On To Banner 18!
I think with Cousins, we take CLE to 6 or 7.

Cousins provides a HUGE mismatch to the Cavs and neutralizes Thompson to an extent.

Still think we would lose the series but next year w/possibly another addition (not a max-player, but a moderate upgrade), and some extra development, the team would be close.

With the other guys, we still lose in 5 to Cleveland, or maybe take it to 6 with Paul George.
"Tough times never last, but tough people do." - Robert H. Schuller

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
DMC would massively help us against Cleveland, maybe even extend the series out to 7 games. But at the end of the day, LeBron was playing on another level and probably would have willed them home in the end.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Offline bdm860

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • Tommy Points: 4586
I'm an optimistic homer.  Paul George would have made a huge difference for the C's if he could have been gotten for mostly future assets.  Something like Brown+Zeller+Rozier+'17 Brk+'18 Brk.

Look at the CLE/IND series, every game was really close, largely because of Paul George's 28/9/7/2.

I think with George, providing another legit scoring threat that you can't cheat off, help on the boards, and good D, he takes the pressure off Isaiah and the rest of the team. 

C's beat Bulls in 5.  They now take Game 1 (remember how close that one was), but still lose game 2 due to being emotionally drained from the Isaiah situation.

C's beat Wizards in 5-6.  Maybe the Game 4 2nd half collapse where the Wizards went on a 26-0 run doesn't happen with George.

C's/Cavs is a close 7 game series (assuming Isaiah is healthy).  In a 7 game series, with home court, I really think the C's have a good chance of winning.  If Isaiah's not healthy, maybe it's Cavs in 6 but with no blow outs.

And while I'm being an optimistic homer, C's can give the Warriors a series, though still the under dog.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the C's would be better than the Warriors or Cavs, but they can compete with them.  Home court and coaching this year could help them upset the Cavs, and the C's seemed to have matched up well with the Warriors over the last 2 seasons (2-0 at Oracle, plus George to help offset Durant).  They become more of a healthy Spurs level contender (legit chance, but still behind Warriors/Cavs).


After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Offline Darío SpanishFan

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 981
  • Tommy Points: 141
I'm an optimistic homer.  Paul George would have made a huge difference for the C's if he could have been gotten for mostly future assets.  Something like Brown+Zeller+Rozier+'17 Brk+'18 Brk.

Brown + BOTH Brooklyn picks? Come on... All our future for one guy (who could leave in a year).

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2720
  • Tommy Points: 306
I'm an optimistic homer.  Paul George would have made a huge difference for the C's if he could have been gotten for mostly future assets.  Something like Brown+Zeller+Rozier+'17 Brk+'18 Brk.

You'd trade all of our best assets for one guy, a guy who won't get us past Cleveland, and will be a UFA a year from now?

Offline timpiker

  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1696
  • Tommy Points: 112
Until LeBUM drops off significantly, forgetaboutit

Offline bdm860

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5952
  • Tommy Points: 4586
I'm an optimistic homer.  Paul George would have made a huge difference for the C's if he could have been gotten for mostly future assets.  Something like Brown+Zeller+Rozier+'17 Brk+'18 Brk.

Brown + BOTH Brooklyn picks? Come on... All our future for one guy (who could leave in a year).

I'm an optimistic homer.  Paul George would have made a huge difference for the C's if he could have been gotten for mostly future assets.  Something like Brown+Zeller+Rozier+'17 Brk+'18 Brk.

You'd trade all of our best assets for one guy, a guy who won't get us past Cleveland, and will be a UFA a year from now?

1.  I didn't say I'd make the trade, I'm just trying to speculate what it would take to get the trade done. This whole topic is about what would happen if the C's made a trade.  Obviously a trade for George didn't happen, so the asking price must have been high (assuming the C's had interest to begin with).  Sure I'd hope we could get George for only 1 pick, I don't think Indiana does that trade last season though.

2.  When the trade would have happened, you would have George for 2 playoffs before he's a free agent, not 1.  So saying he could leave in a year acts like the C's would be trading for him now this offseason, instead of some time last season.

3.  I think the C's could get past Cleveland with him.  Not a guarantee but a possibility.  Combining the team that got to the ECF with the player who get kept his team within a possession or 2 of beating Cleveland every game along with home court advantage, and maybe a healthy IT (especially the C's beat the Wizards in 5, since IT's injury happened in Game 6), yes I think there's a decent enough chance that the C's could beat Cleveland.

4.  I'm not sure if George leaves if the C's are competitive with Cleveland, or actually get past them this year or next.

After 18 months with their Bigs, the Littles were: 46% less likely to use illegal drugs, 27% less likely to use alcohol, 52% less likely to skip school, 37% less likely to skip a class

Offline Dino Pitino

  • NCE
  • Don Chaney
  • *
  • Posts: 1822
  • Tommy Points: 219
I'm not even sure if we pretended we could've traded for one of a number of Top 50 All Time players whether we could've topped LeBron, the Jordan of our era. Tell me if we would've gotten past the Cavs if we had in his peak/prime...

Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Gary Payton
Clyde Drexler
David Robinson
Kevin Mchale

How great of a player would we have actually needed?
"Young man, you have the question backwards." - Bill Russell

"My guess is that an aggregator of expert opinions would be close in terms of results to that of Danny." - Roy H.

Offline Greyman

  • Jayson Tatum
  • Posts: 784
  • Tommy Points: 211
The outcome would have been the same, at home in the ECF. Still far away from the Cavs and Warriors, so glad Ainge didn't waste any asset.

TP for the time thinking.

This is it. TP  Parity with the Cavs and GSW couldn't have been achieved though I believe it is possible going forward. Can't wait to see what DA comes up with.

Offline liam

  • NCE
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 43397
  • Tommy Points: 3150
I'm not even sure if we pretended we could've traded for one of a number of Top 50 All Time players whether we could've topped LeBron, the Jordan of our era. Tell me if we would've gotten past the Cavs if we had in his peak/prime...

Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Gary Payton
Clyde Drexler
David Robinson
Kevin Mchale

How great of a player would we have actually needed?

I'd take Kevin McHale in his prime every time. Who could guard him on The CAVS and who couldn't he guard on the other end. Prime McHale was a hell of a two way player.

Offline tazzmaniac

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8113
  • Tommy Points: 549
Cousins would have made a significant difference. Of course with IT getting hurt it wouldn't have gotten us to the finals.  However there would have been significant cost and risk with getting Cousins.  I don't think George or Butler would have made as much of a difference as Cousins.  As Wyc said, we're two significant moves away. 

The real potential miss of the bunch is Noel.  The cost to acquire him was so low that there was no reason not to make the trade.  If it works out, he shores up our defense.  If not, we've only lost Rozier and a late 1st. 







Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58555
  • Tommy Points: -25636
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I'm not even sure if we pretended we could've traded for one of a number of Top 50 All Time players whether we could've topped LeBron, the Jordan of our era. Tell me if we would've gotten past the Cavs if we had in his peak/prime...

Charles Barkley
Patrick Ewing
Karl Malone
John Stockton
Gary Payton
Clyde Drexler
David Robinson
Kevin Mchale

How great of a player would we have actually needed?

I'd take Kevin McHale in his prime every time. Who could guard him on The CAVS and who couldn't he guard on the other end. Prime McHale was a hell of a two way player.

I love McHale, but I'm taking Robinson against the Cavs. He'd dominate Tristan Thompson.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Offline Moranis

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 33461
  • Tommy Points: 1533
Cousins would have made Cleveland an interesting series.   The thing is if Boston added Cousins, I don't think it would have stopped there and would have added something else.  Maybe it is Ibaka or Noel. Maybe Tucker. Or maybe some crazy long shot like Carmelo.  How interesting is the Cleveland series if Boston has a starting 5 of Thomas, Bradley, Anthony, Horford and Cousins . That is a starting 5 that can actually score with the Cavs, that has a clear mismatch at center, and that would actually make James work defensively.  And given what Cousins went for and what Anthony was rumored for I don't think those trades would have cost much more than Crowder, Brown, and draft picks (plus Amir and Jonas for salary).
2023 Historical Draft - Brooklyn Nets - 9th pick

Bigs - Pau, Amar'e, Issel, McGinnis, Roundfield
Wings - Dantley, Bowen, J. Jackson
Guards - Cheeks, Petrovic, Buse, Rip