Author Topic: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)  (Read 2583 times)

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Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« on: May 26, 2017, 11:38:38 AM »

Offline Fireworks_Boom!

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JB and Hayward play the same position.

Carmelo can play the 4.

Carmelo's contract is shorter.

A trade for Carmelo could provide us leverage in other inclusions (Porzingis: highly unlikely, O'Quinn: slightly more likely, Pick 8: ???).

So here goes:

Zeller/Crowder/Bradley
for
Anthony/Pick 8

Sign Alex Len to Amir Johnson 1+1 ($10m/yr)

Pick 1: Fultz
Pick 8: Monk/Tatum/Giles (reach but might be worth gamble)

Team:
PG: Thomas
SG: Smart
SF: Brown
PF: Anthony
C: Horford

Bench: Fultz, Len, Monk/Tatum/Giles, Rozier, Yabusele, Zizic, Nader, Jackson

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2017, 11:47:06 AM »

Offline number_n9ne

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I'm in on Melo, but I'm not giving up Bradley and Crowder for him. I'd rather trade Zeller, Mickey, Rozier, and Olynyk S&T and skip the picks. Also I'm pretty sure 1+1's aren't a thing anymore after the new CBA.

Thomas/Smart/Jackson
Bradley/Fultz at #1/Green vet min.
Crowder/Brown/Nader
Anthony/Yabusele/Swanigan at #37
Horford/Zizic/Johnson vet min.


Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2017, 11:51:50 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I don't hate the idea.


I like the 8 slot in the draft this year.

That said, I don't really see NYK making that pick available and you can only make this move if you are very confident in Jaylen's development in the next year.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2017, 11:54:12 AM »

Offline manl_lui

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i don't mind either, a SF who can play the PF, though he is getting older, but I like he can also bring rebounding into the table. Definitely another offensive threat as well

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2017, 12:23:22 PM »

Offline Fireworks_Boom!

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I don't hate the idea.


I like the 8 slot in the draft this year.

That said, I don't really see NYK making that pick available and you can only make this move if you are very confident in Jaylen's development in the next year.

Ridding themselves of Carmelo is a youth movement for NYK so losing Pick 8 in the trade is the opposite of this. They might angle for Rozier to be included. Perhaps a revised package. I'd hate to lose both Crowder and Bradley.

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2017, 12:36:14 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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There's no way he's going to play PF full time, especially at his age. And there's no way the Knicks want to trade Melo and ALSO lose their pick. If anything, they want to add picks, not players.

Also, what's the point if the lineup you end up with is starting Smart and Jaylen? I love Jaylen, but he shouldn't be starting for a team that wants to win now. And Smart is so much worse on offense compared to Bradley.

I don't understand why people want to go after guys like Melo or Millsap. It doesn't make us better than the Cavs and they have what, one year, two years left at most? Carmelo is 33 years old! We're trying to beat LeBron and we sign a guy who is worse AND older, yay.

Finally, signing or trading for these old guys basically means that cap space is totally gone, OK? Because these guys are old they are untradeable. We'll be stuck with them until their contract expires and chances are we'll still be over the cap because the kids will need to be extended. So basically we lose all flexibility and we lose that space for nothing.

The Celtics are not going to waste their last season with cap space on old players unless their name rhymes with Jebron Lames or whatever. They're going to spend it on a young star who will still be in their prime throughout most or all of the deal (basically Hayward), or they will spend it on smart extensions/tradeable/dumpable free agents so they can protect their flexibility to trade for a star in the future.


Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2017, 12:41:02 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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There's no way he's going to play PF full time, especially at his age. And there's no way the Knicks want to trade Melo and ALSO lose their pick. If anything, they want to add picks, not players.

Also, what's the point if the lineup you end up with is starting Smart and Jaylen? I love Jaylen, but he shouldn't be starting for a team that wants to win now. And Smart is so much worse on offense compared to Bradley.

I don't understand why people want to go after guys like Melo or Millsap. It doesn't make us better than the Cavs and they have what, one year, two years left at most? Carmelo is 33 years old! We're trying to beat LeBron and we sign a guy who is worse AND older, yay.

Finally, signing or trading for these old guys basically means that cap space is totally gone, OK? Because these guys are old they are untradeable. We'll be stuck with them until their contract expires and chances are we'll still be over the cap because the kids will need to be extended. So basically we lose all flexibility and we lose that space for nothing.

The Celtics are not going to waste their last season with cap space on old players unless their name rhymes with Jebron Lames or whatever. They're going to spend it on a young star who will still be in their prime throughout most or all of the deal (basically Hayward), or they will spend it on smart extensions/tradeable/dumpable free agents so they can protect their flexibility to trade for a star in the future.
Cap space is irrelevant after this offseason
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2017, 01:16:13 PM »

Offline action781

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I'm more pro-Carmelo than most, but you make two cases here:

1.  Carmelo can play the 4. 

That is the main reason why I am interested in him.

2.  Carmelo's contract is shorter. 

That is not a good case in favor of Carmelo over Gordon.  Gordon Hayward's contract will last through the prime of his career.  It's a *good* thing that his contract is longer.  Carmelo on the other hand will be on a slow decline over his next 2 years.


One important factor you didn't mention is that Gordon Hayward can be had at no cost of assets.  Carmelo you have to trade away additional assets for.  Also, can you defend from the Knicks perspective why they would trade away their franchise player of today (Carmelo) and a future asset (#8 pick) for Crowder + Bradley + Zeller?  What is the direction/plan/outlook of the franchise after completing this trade and how did it improve that direction?
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2017, 01:18:52 PM »

Offline gouki88

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I'd rather Hayward over Melo simply for the fact that we wouldn't have to give up anything. That, and I feel as though getting an agreed upon and mutually beneficial deal (or one that robs NY blind  ;D ) would be quite difficult.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #9 on: May 26, 2017, 02:32:00 PM »

Offline loco_91

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Crowder > Melo

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2017, 02:41:39 PM »

Online liam

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You could add Carmelo and Hayward. They can play together. Melo is a four at this point and Hayward is a 3. They would add a ton of fire power to our roster.

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2017, 02:49:16 PM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

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There's no way he's going to play PF full time, especially at his age. And there's no way the Knicks want to trade Melo and ALSO lose their pick. If anything, they want to add picks, not players.

Also, what's the point if the lineup you end up with is starting Smart and Jaylen? I love Jaylen, but he shouldn't be starting for a team that wants to win now. And Smart is so much worse on offense compared to Bradley.

I don't understand why people want to go after guys like Melo or Millsap. It doesn't make us better than the Cavs and they have what, one year, two years left at most? Carmelo is 33 years old! We're trying to beat LeBron and we sign a guy who is worse AND older, yay.

Finally, signing or trading for these old guys basically means that cap space is totally gone, OK? Because these guys are old they are untradeable. We'll be stuck with them until their contract expires and chances are we'll still be over the cap because the kids will need to be extended. So basically we lose all flexibility and we lose that space for nothing.

The Celtics are not going to waste their last season with cap space on old players unless their name rhymes with Jebron Lames or whatever. They're going to spend it on a young star who will still be in their prime throughout most or all of the deal (basically Hayward), or they will spend it on smart extensions/tradeable/dumpable free agents so they can protect their flexibility to trade for a star in the future.
Cap space is irrelevant after this offseason

I don't think you understood my post. I know their cap space is gone after this season. That's why it's important that it is spent on someone who won't be over the hill in a couple years. Once that happens we're either stuck paying a washed up former star or his contract expires and we don't re-sign him and the space his contract took up is gone anyway.

Anyway this is pointless. I guarantee you Melo is not anywhere near Ainge's radar, not even as a plan Z.

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2017, 02:49:20 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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You could add Carmelo and Hayward. They can play together. Melo is a four at this point and Hayward is a 3. They would add a ton of fire power to our roster.
Financially that would be basically impossible.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2017, 02:55:57 PM »

Online liam

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You could add Carmelo and Hayward. They can play together. Melo is a four at this point and Hayward is a 3. They would add a ton of fire power to our roster.
Financially that would be basically impossible.

Without a salary dump it won't work...

Re: Making a case (Carmelo over Hayward)
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2017, 03:00:35 PM »

Online liam

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The only way you get Melo and Hayward is if NY buys Melo out and he signs here at a margin rate!