Author Topic: Going all in  (Read 8877 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2017, 08:10:01 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2720
  • Tommy Points: 306
Trading Fultz for a guy like Butler makes no sense. Butler takes us nowhere. And adding 2 players as similar as Butler and Hayward makes little sense either.

Why people want to try to build around our terribly flawed core is beyond me.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2017, 08:10:21 AM »

Offline CF0022

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 234
  • Tommy Points: 3
also we might not even be talking about fultz as a potential superstar if it wasn't for curry. KG I consider a superstar and probably the closest you get to being transcendent without actually accomplishing what transcendent is. He did in other ways though. KG made up for it in other ways. KG is a tough one...  I'm not sure id put him on kobe's level though.  Head to head when they both had great teams they were 1-1 though.. KG might have had a better one with Pierce, Ray and Rondo though.  Vs KObe with Bynum and Gasol.

I think in the end those guys are transcendent for a reason......  They have better teams but players also flock to them ebcause they are the best players.

So Ill be unbiased and say Kobe had a step on KG.  Curry probably does too. State of the nba or whatever.  He made it that way. KG was fighting an uphill  battle.

Kg's intangibles make him transcendent in ways.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 08:19:42 AM by CF0022 »

Re: Going all in
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2017, 08:31:57 AM »

Offline ManUp

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8509
  • Tommy Points: 285
  • Rondo doesn't believe in easy buckets...
Say what you want about Jimmy Butler, but despite the loss, he was the best player in that first round series.

Curry isn't transcendant Durant is, Draymond is the secret sauce behind the Warriors success.

Sign Hayward, move Isaiah, start Smart and Fultz build an up and coming team don't rush it for a flash in the pan. Patience is the key. Having max money tied into Isaiah, Hayward, and Horford kills your flexibility on a team that's really good, but not good enough. Winning a championship is the goal not beating Lebron, don't be the raptors.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2017, 08:50:07 AM »

Offline dreamgreen

  • NCE
  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3558
  • Tommy Points: 182
Things we shouldn't do:

1) "Blow it up";

2) "Run it back";

3) "Go All In"

Draft and keep Fultz, keep IT, Horford and Jaylen, sign Hayward.  If those things happen, I expect I'll be happy.

100% agree with you!!!

Re: Going all in
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2017, 08:52:36 AM »

Offline slamtheking

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31869
  • Tommy Points: 10047
IT is out and I don't think we get his value in a trade.  Trade Fultz and Crowder for Butler. Sign Hayward.  Start Smart or Rozier at pg to start the season. Bring AB off the bench and turn him into MAnu.  Keep Jaylen.

Starters

Smart/Rozier
Butler/Bradley
Hayward/Jaylen
Kelly/Yab
Horford/Zizic

Keep IT over Fultz and start him when he comes back. Keep the 18 pick to add another big man to develop behind Horford.
this is pure panic. 

keep Fultz.  hopefully sign a top FA.  if no top FA can be had, use the money to improve where we can.  that shouldn't be hard considering our current frontcourt and starting SF

Re: Going all in
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2017, 08:53:14 AM »

Offline Ed Hollison

  • Jaylen Brown
  • Posts: 619
  • Tommy Points: 195
One thing to add to this conversation about going after Butler... It's a mistake to go after a "Lebron stopper" type, and not just because you still have to beat the Warriors the next 2-3 years. It's that, as the ECF that just ended reminded us, that supposed Lebron stopper will just get caught up in a pick-and-roll, and someone else will need to take Lebron on that possession.

It's not about one guy to match up with some other guy. The way to win given the current NBA style is to have competent, versatile players that can do lots of thing well at all positions.

Either that, or get Lebron plus win the lottery three more times in four years. That's a good strategy too.
"A thought of hatred must be destroyed by a more powerful thought of love."

http://fruittreeblog.com

Re: Going all in
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2017, 08:58:09 AM »

Offline CF0022

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 234
  • Tommy Points: 3
It actually isn't pure panic.  I wrote it and wasn't panicking.  Also Curry is better than Durant by a step.

Why bother talking to people who are really disrespectful? 

So what I think is pathetic?  REally.  Oh ok. Been right before.  Every draft actually when you say the same things.  And you are celtic fans when DA usually thinks the same things?

Re: Going all in
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2017, 08:58:15 AM »

Offline mrceltics2013

  • Al Horford
  • Posts: 464
  • Tommy Points: 15

I'm sorry but if smart is starting on any teams then that's an automatic lotto team lol. I'm sorry but unless he makes a DRAMATIC increase offence, homeboy may not even be in the league anymore in 2 more years. This man legit had 1 good game the entire season. And imo it wasn't that impressive because all he did was gun up 3s, they just landed that one time lol.



IT is out and I don't think we get his value in a trade.  Trade Fultz and Crowder for Butler. Sign Hayward.  Start Smart or Rozier at pg to start the season. Bring AB off the bench and turn him into MAnu.  Keep Jaylen.

Starters

Smart/Rozier
Butler/Bradley
Hayward/Jaylen
Kelly/Yab
Horford/Zizic

Keep IT over Fultz and start him when he comes back. Keep the 18 pick to add another big man to develop behind Horford.
this is pure panic. 

keep Fultz.  hopefully sign a top FA.  if no top FA can be had, use the money to improve where we can.  that shouldn't be hard considering our current frontcourt and starting SF

Re: Going all in
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2017, 09:00:10 AM »

Offline CF0022

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 234
  • Tommy Points: 3
Also was one of the few people who actually wanted Durant when most people were chanting for Oden.  And it was pathetic to think Durant was better at the time.

Also was all over draymond when he was a 2nd round pick. No one knew who he was.

But what I think is pathetic.  And it's pure panic.  Oh ok........ You guys are so fun to talk to and such a respectful bunch.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2017, 09:02:44 AM »

Offline CF0022

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 234
  • Tommy Points: 3
No thought went into what I said at all. I must just be a moron who panicked.  Sure...............

Actually it was just an idea i came up with and  one of the things I would actually consider.

Moving Bradley to the bench makes some sense. And y es it's about winning a championship. 

We aren't becoming the raptors.  I could say that about what you said but I won't.

Have fun watching some other team though.  You also didn't even read what I said.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2017, 09:09:40 AM »

Offline WeMadeIt17

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3397
  • Tommy Points: 435
My plan would be this. Move AB,Crowder, Brown, 2018 nets top 2 protected for PG13. Sign Hayward. Draft Fultz, and roll with a lineup of.

IT/Fultz
Smart/Fultz
Hayward/Yabs
PG13/vet
Hordord/Zizc

Re: Going all in
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2017, 09:11:12 AM »

Offline ETNCeltics

  • NCE
  • Jim Loscutoff
  • **
  • Posts: 2720
  • Tommy Points: 306
If that move isn't panic, sure smells a lot like it.

Butler isn't good enough to get us over the top.

I'm confident Ainge will stay the course and avoid foolish trades. Because his owner is saying such a trade would be foolish.

“You don’t really want to necessarily trade a number one pick in a really good draft for somebody that’s halfway thru their career, already making max money,” the team’s governor and CEO stated. “That’s just a difficult trade to make. First of all, you have to match the money in the trade, so you’ve got to add significant additional players on our side to go just to sort of match the money, so it’s three or four guys going and one guy coming back.

“That guy better be pretty good because if you’re drafting No. 1 and you make the pick well – you do really draft a transcendent player – you’ve got that player for five or six years as they build up before the max money even kicks in. It just feels like this is a pick we will listen to offers, I’m sure, we will have conversations all the way thru June but, for me, making a first pick is an exciting prospect right now.”

Re: Going all in
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2017, 09:13:50 AM »

Offline CF0022

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 234
  • Tommy Points: 3
No you are right Butler isn't good enough to get us over the top. The point is to move Bradley to the bench and get Butler and Hayward and keep our young core while also keeping the 18 pick.

Also it's a hypothetical of something id "consider" depending on fultz and if we aren't going to be able to make moves for other players that would put us in better position in the future.  Ultimately we are going to start losing players and value here.

Ainge hasn't been building this for nothing, but i explained that here.  Not saying i'd do it.  It's a hypethical if i were to make a move to go all in at this point.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2017, 09:21:17 AM »

Offline CF0022

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 234
  • Tommy Points: 3
I'm still thinking more long term and with Fultz and possibly going after something better down the road as well. I wrote all that though.  Those players have to be there though and Fultz has to be that good.  PLayers like Crowder are going to start losing value as well. The idea here was to flip the pick and crowder for Butler and Hayward and move AB to teh bench. Butler is a sg. Hayward is a small forward. where we keep our young guys and the 18 pick if Fultz isn't all that. 

I'm not saying Fultz is or isn't either.  There is that  question though.  Or we could just make a run at Hayward too but I wouldnt necessarily overspend there if there is something better.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2017, 09:48:58 AM »

Offline CF0022

  • Brad Stevens
  • Posts: 234
  • Tommy Points: 3
Trading IT is a panic move just because we have the #1 pick imo.  Trading for an allstar team is not.   That is still young and would have a 5 or 6 year window. Plus we keep our young core.  Move bradley to the 6th man role.  And have the 18 pick to get another big man in here.  Plus bring over yab and zizic. 

I'm not saying I'd do this either.  I think it's possible we can draft fultz and maybe go after something bigger ultimately but people aren't living in reality here that the value we have in these picks and players is not going to be there forever. yeah we can maybe parlay something in Anthony Davis.  But after next year we are not going to be drafting in the lottery anymore.

Banking everything on fultz is silly that way unless he really is that good.

And no that does not make us the raptors..  Nor does it mean I am panicking.  I'm just stating a scenario.

We lose 1 pick and jae crowder.  we add Jimmy butler and gordon hayward to our current team and lose very little plus have the 18 to add to that. Fultz is realy the kicker though. It depends on how good he is. His value may be greater than that.  Right now it isn't. It's not even clear whether he will be as good as jimmy butler. He might not even be as good as Avery Bradley as a rookie coming off the bench.

That pick is very valuable and the C's are going to try to maximize it.  I get that.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 09:59:24 AM by CF0022 »