Author Topic: Going all in  (Read 8862 times)

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Re: Going all in
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2017, 01:31:37 AM »

Offline CF0022

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It depends on how valuable fultz really is though. Going all in on him is the same thing in ways.  I'm about 70/80 percent sold. I'm not 100 percent sold on him. This is one thing I'd consider. Trading everything for George. No.  I'd also consider other players as well depending on who they are and the cost.

That could flip and go lower depending on how good fultz really is too.

The main thing is if it puts us in the best position to win now and in the future.  I'm not saying this is it but if i were to go all in this would be something i'd consider.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 01:37:17 AM by CF0022 »

Re: Going all in
« Reply #16 on: May 26, 2017, 01:34:54 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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But that's kind of the point.  The point is to put together a team that can beat him.  Bird wasn't necessarily Jordan either. Different players. I think they were pretty close and jordan was somewhat overrated.  But the goal is to have  5-10 guys that can beat their 5-10 guys.

Bird vs Jordan is a bad example though because i think they were closer than that. Bird couldnt jump but was bigger, a more creative passer and a better shooter than jordan.
It does not matter what we say you want to win next year and you want to do whatever it takes to ruin our future so we can compete with the Cavs and lose in 6-7 games in the ECF.....

Even with all the players you would trade for we would only win 1 more game against the Cavs....maybe 3 if they get hurt. But we are not beating GSW after that anyway........

Re: Going all in
« Reply #17 on: May 26, 2017, 01:37:26 AM »

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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It depends on how valuable fultz really is though. Going all in on him is the same thing in ways.  I'm about 70/80 percent sold. I'm not 100 percent sold on him. This is one thing I'd consider. Trading everything for George. No.  I'd also consider other players as well depending on who they are and the cost.

That could flip and go lower depending on how good fultz really is too.
Exactly, you are willing to make trades, including renting PG for 1 year, so we can go 6 games with the Cavs......

Re: Going all in
« Reply #18 on: May 26, 2017, 01:38:46 AM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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I realize he's valuable.  I have some questions about a 20 year old kid being able to take down lebron or just waiting till he's good and the rest of our team falls by the wayside waiting for him to develop though.  I think with a good enough team around him he could develop and be a piece though.

We have these picks and players now and are on the cusp.  Could fultz be that missing piece? Sure but I'm not 100 percent sold.  Having Butler might be better.

Nobody takes down Lebron James.

The question is - who even has a shot to beat the Cavs during Lebron's window except for the Superteam GS Warriors?

Some other stats for you to chew on for past #1 pick guards:
Year 1 Derrick Rose 16.8 ppg
Year 2 Derrick Rose 20.8 ppg

Year 1 Kyrie Irving 18.5 ppg
Year 2 Kyrie Irving 22.5 ppg

Year 1 Markell Fultz ?? ppg
Year 2 Markell Fultz ?? ppg

You do the math.
The team has already "fell off the wayside" dude. We signed Horford to entice Durant....didn't happen. We couldn't even get away with playing Al at the 4 bc he can't run out and defend stretch 4's and does not have the legs to move with them. He's not the player I thought he would be in the playoffs against the Cavs.

Even with a healthy IT we still would have gotten crushed, maybe even worse. Adding Hayward is not going to get us over the Cavs....like you said.

IT/AB/Smart could all walk next summer and all will be wanting expensive contracts. It is suicida; to pay them, especially with Fultz and Jaylen, so we should trade them this summer to get most value and not risk letting them walk.


IMO DA will make the smart choice and take this team in a new direction. Personally, I woulld be looking to trade the entire starting lineup and get max value for them. Horford bothers me, if he falls off next season or anything happens then we get stuck with that contract.
Prepare to be disapointed because Ainge isn't gonna Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing tank
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Re: Going all in
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2017, 01:52:16 AM »

Offline CF0022

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Ainge won't tank. I don't think we want to be stuck on the cusp for too long.  You ultimately want to keep improving.  There are ways to do that that you don't have to necessarily make a trade.  Through experience and developing and continuing to add talent. 

But I also think when you are stuck in no man's land for too long especially in todays nba players willl start leaving too where we will start losing value on the picks we have and players.  Crowder is already one of those guys imo. His value and this pick are pretty high right now.

Crowder in a couple years will have very little value to us.

You ultimately want to assemble a core where players want to play for us because they feel they have a shot to win a championship.

That pick and Crowder's value are very high. I would consider it for Butler if we are getting Hayward.  Without Hayward no....

I also would be hesitant to trade the pick depending on how good Fultz really is.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2017, 01:57:43 AM »

Offline CF0022

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paul george really same thing.  I wouldnt trade the pick and our entire team for him. I'd think about the pick and crowder for him though.

I think Fultz is somewhat overvalued in that IT is very similar and more experienced.

 I also think Bradley can serve the same role as him off the bench and probably be better in that role.

If we get Hayward and Butler or George.  I would move Bradley to the  bench as the 6th man.  Plus we keep Smart, KO and Brown and the 18 pick to get another big man.

Butler makes more sense to me because of the asking price. Plus he doesnt have the injury history george does and is younger and is actually a sg. Hayward is a small forward.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2017, 02:01:33 AM »

Offline iadera

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Fultz has no risk. Risk is trading the boat for 2 years of Jimmy "never won anything" butler

You don't trade a John wall on a $5 mill contract. You just don't do it

I'm all in, but we desperatly need some size to help Horford. For instance, seems Speights will opt out and see the market this summer.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2017, 02:02:10 AM »

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I realize he's valuable.  I have some questions about a 20 year old kid being able to take down lebron or just waiting till he's good and the rest of our team falls by the wayside waiting for him to develop though.  I think with a good enough team around him he could develop and be a piece though.

We have these picks and players now and are on the cusp.  Could fultz be that missing piece? Sure but I'm not 100 percent sold.  Having Butler might be better.

Nobody takes down Lebron James.

The question is - who even has a shot to beat the Cavs during Lebron's window except for the Superteam GS Warriors?

Some other stats for you to chew on for past #1 pick guards:
Year 1 Derrick Rose 16.8 ppg
Year 2 Derrick Rose 20.8 ppg

Year 1 Kyrie Irving 18.5 ppg
Year 2 Kyrie Irving 22.5 ppg

Year 1 Markell Fultz ?? ppg
Year 2 Markell Fultz ?? ppg

You do the math.
The team has already "fell off the wayside" dude. We signed Horford to entice Durant....didn't happen. We couldn't even get away with playing Al at the 4 bc he can't run out and defend stretch 4's and does not have the legs to move with them. He's not the player I thought he would be in the playoffs against the Cavs.

Even with a healthy IT we still would have gotten crushed, maybe even worse. Adding Hayward is not going to get us over the Cavs....like you said.

IT/AB/Smart could all walk next summer and all will be wanting expensive contracts. It is suicida; to pay them, especially with Fultz and Jaylen, so we should trade them this summer to get most value and not risk letting them walk.


IMO DA will make the smart choice and take this team in a new direction. Personally, I woulld be looking to trade the entire starting lineup and get max value for them. Horford bothers me, if he falls off next season or anything happens then we get stuck with that contract.
Prepare to be disapointed because Ainge isn't gonna ****ing tank
We struck out on Durant. We signed Horford to lure Durant. We were led to the #1 seed by an imperfect player that is a net-negative. We got historically crushed multiple times in the ECF. We learned we are more than a FA away. Our core from this year has a few guys coming up on UFA and wanting a ton of money. The best time to trade is this summer in order to get the best value.

If we strike out on FA DA will do the right thing....finally.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2017, 02:15:58 AM »

Offline CF0022

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I don't know. This fits a lot those checkmarks that Ainge likes as far as now and for the future.  I tend to be that guy a lot where people say no one ever thought that.  If this happens it's noted in my memory.

It makes sense to me right now.  Fultz is really the kicker and could change.

Also was one of teh few people who voted jaylen in that other thread. He has a ways to develop though but this would put him in that position to do that.

Different prospects.  jaylen can sit back and develop here over time where Fultz would really get to play in chicago.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 02:22:34 AM by CF0022 »

Re: Going all in
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2017, 02:16:38 AM »

Offline gouki88

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I realize he's valuable.  I have some questions about a 20 year old kid being able to take down lebron or just waiting till he's good and the rest of our team falls by the wayside waiting for him to develop though.  I think with a good enough team around him he could develop and be a piece though.

We have these picks and players now and are on the cusp.  Could fultz be that missing piece? Sure but I'm not 100 percent sold.  Having Butler might be better.

Nobody takes down Lebron James.

The question is - who even has a shot to beat the Cavs during Lebron's window except for the Superteam GS Warriors?

Some other stats for you to chew on for past #1 pick guards:
Year 1 Derrick Rose 16.8 ppg
Year 2 Derrick Rose 20.8 ppg

Year 1 Kyrie Irving 18.5 ppg
Year 2 Kyrie Irving 22.5 ppg

Year 1 Markell Fultz ?? ppg
Year 2 Markell Fultz ?? ppg

You do the math.
The team has already "fell off the wayside" dude. We signed Horford to entice Durant....didn't happen. We couldn't even get away with playing Al at the 4 bc he can't run out and defend stretch 4's and does not have the legs to move with them. He's not the player I thought he would be in the playoffs against the Cavs.

Even with a healthy IT we still would have gotten crushed, maybe even worse. Adding Hayward is not going to get us over the Cavs....like you said.

IT/AB/Smart could all walk next summer and all will be wanting expensive contracts. It is suicida; to pay them, especially with Fultz and Jaylen, so we should trade them this summer to get most value and not risk letting them walk.


IMO DA will make the smart choice and take this team in a new direction. Personally, I woulld be looking to trade the entire starting lineup and get max value for them. Horford bothers me, if he falls off next season or anything happens then we get stuck with that contract.
Prepare to be disapointed because Ainge isn't gonna ****ing tank
We struck out on Durant. We signed Horford to lure Durant. We were led to the #1 seed by an imperfect player that is a net-negative. We got historically crushed multiple times in the ECF. We learned we are more than a FA away. Our core from this year has a few guys coming up on UFA and wanting a ton of money. The best time to trade is this summer in order to get the best value.

If we strike out on FA DA will do the right thing....finally.
LOL. You must be seriously deluded if you think tanking is the right thing   ::)
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PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Going all in
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2017, 02:43:35 AM »

Offline keevsnick

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Things we shouldn't do:

1) "Blow it up";

2) "Run it back";

3) "Go All In"

Draft and keep Fultz, keep IT, Horford and Jaylen, sign Hayward.  If those things happen, I expect I'll be happy.

The fun part about this offseason is there are so many options. I think most fans would agree that the best option is this Now and Later option where we compete next year and keep the young guys. But there are certainly scenarios where we could Blow It Up or Go All In. The one thing I don't want to see above all else is the run it back option. I don't see the point in returning the same team next year (even with Fultz added). If we cant get Hayward/Griffin then we go young because at that point our cap flexibility will be limited going forward and I don't think its possible to get good enough to compete by just making trades. Even if it was I  don't want to sacrifice the future just for a chance to get destroyed by Golden State.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2017, 02:48:38 AM »

Offline CF0022

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IT, Butler, Hayward, Horford + 18 pick is an allstar starting 5.  Plus we keep Smart, Bradley, Rozier, jaylen, KO, Yab and Zizic for the future.

Hayward hasn't made the allstar team yet to my knowledge but who cares. It's still an allstar starting 5.  Bradley would be our 6th man as well and be probably the best one in the nba.

I think going all in on Fultz is a bit shortsighted that way.

Money wise it would also work where we would have our core but also be able to develop guys like Jaylen.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2017, 02:56:25 AM »

Offline CF0022

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One thing I know for certain is we aren't tanking. That serves no purpose.  We are the Boston Celtics.  Nor is ainge going to just continue to stand pat forever. Thats' more likely but players are going to start losing value.  We aren't going to control their contracts won't be as attractive a destination etc...

We hold the cards right now.  It's getting really close to where it's time to deal.

Re: Going all in
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2017, 03:18:16 AM »

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When I look at Fultz and Brown as my starting guards, things look good. Maybe not this year, but I might expect so the year after. So all this excitement and anxiety about resigning IT and AB, and then Smart too, keep in mind they are all expendable since Rozier, also still on a rookie deal then, can be the 3rd guard. That kid can play. I can't believe just last year he was in the d-league.

So I could possibly see 1-2 guards actually moved, and our current main 3 are the most likely candidates. Go figure.  But reshaping the roster for positional balance should be fairly easy. If DA decides to step back in order to leap ahead, IT and AB could go together.  It might actually be tough for Danny to let Bradley go though.


Re: Going all in
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2017, 04:29:56 AM »

Offline CF0022

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Trade the pick and Crowder for Butler.  Sign Hayward.   Continue to develop Smart, Jaylen and KO.  We can only develop so many players.  We need a 6th man and AB is as good an option as any.

The other option is to go with Fultz and win through gaining experience but that isn't working so far.  We've gotten progressively better but in order to jump ahead of teams like Cleveland and GS that is a big step.

These in between options make very little sense to me. They aren't going to get us over the top.