Ainge on Toucher & Rich (draft workouts)

[Rosco917]

I'm sure Danny knows who he'll choose as his number one pick IF he keeps the pick. He must have sent advanced scouts out during the NCAA year to evaluate players, knowing full well he had a shot at getting the number one pick. He'd be incompetent if he didn't.

IMO he's looking to see who he likes if he trades down. Being Danny he's thinking maybe he can get a top PG in this deep PG draft, and maybe a big at the same time, by trading down.

He can always have Fultz come in workout, and have a good measuring stick to evaluate from because he had other top guards come in for workouts.  If Fultz is in fact, a star in the making, he should stand out from the others.

[i believe in brad]

A lot of people on here asking why we'd workout Monk/Giles and hoping that's not a sign of potentially trading the 1st pick.  When you're in the position the Celtics are in asset-wise you should pretty much be working out players 1-60 on your big board.  Doesn't matter what outsiders think just work everyone out and go from there.

[Grindfather]

Wow Ainge really shut down Jackie Mac's rumor of IT being shopped for a lottery pick last offseason.
Ainge: "Why would I trade away our best player for a lottery pick when we already have 8 picks AND we are trying to sign Kevin Durant and Al Horford?

It makes zero sense.
He seemed pretty angry about that one. I wonder how much of this is protecting his relationship with Isaiah and acting slighty upset about such a rumor.

Good talk, TP for the notification it was out...

Fake news is rampant in the sports media, because sources aren't identified. It's easy for a writer to create something to have impact and get attention. On the other hand, Danny is entitled to some privacy--especially in potential deals that don't happen. There are players involved who have feelings and loyalties. Players are mentioned in deals all the time that don't happen. You have to deny this kind of stuff.

I think it's clear this is the year Ainge has to get off the pot and get this team to the next level.
He can start by drafting Fultz. I would forget about the rest of the draft. Focus next on FAs and trades. There are a lot of mediocre players, mainly up front, that need to be unloaded or traded. I think IT might be expendable if they can sign another scorer like Hayward. They also need one or two bigs who can bang. Take the pressure off Horford up front.

It's asinine to call something "fake news" because it is based on anonymous sourcing.  A significant amount of investigative journalism, sports or otherwise, relies on unnamed sources. This does not in anyway mean that it is not true or "fake" as you call it. Journalists could not function if all their sources had to be named, and no one would talk to them because of the potential exposure they would face.  Thinking this way is just a fundamental misunderstand of how a free press works. 

You're also accusing MacMullin of making this all up, which is extremely offensive to her.  Fabricating stories is basically the worst thing you can do in journalism and she has a pretty stellar record that doesn't warrant that kind of slander.

Now that being said, what is of utmost importance is for a journalist to confirm the veracity of the information they are being given and that the source of that info is reliable and trustworthy. Here's where I think Jackie Mac fails.  She's probably reporting from a single source without independent verification, which is problematic.  This scenario makes the journalist look like a tool of the source.  This is how Phil Jackson and Charley Rosen function.  Rosen is Phil's mouthpiece. That's not reporting, that's PR. Jackie falls into that sometimes. 

[KGBirdBias]

Ainge and Jackie M. go back a long way. I wouldn't be surprised if Ainge leaked it to her and they both knew Ainge had to deny it. Ainge wants to find out who will come calling. Ainge of course will deny it to IT as well.

Ainge is smart to get all comers to see what is offered. IT has more value now then he did last year. IT will get his money. Ainge is a flipper and he will flip guys in a minute if they bring more value.

[JumpingJudkins]

And in the NFL draft , Eli Manning said the Giants, not the Chargers. So the Chargers got Leaf, the Giants got Eli and made out like bandits.

Chargers got Philip Rivers, not Leaf.

They did get Leaf six years earlier when the Colts took Peyton Manning ...

[mmmmm]

- Giles, Monk, and Leaf will workout for the C's today at White Plains, NY

- Ball has told Ainge he will NOT workout for the C's prior to the draft

Interesting they are working out Giles and Leaf who would seem more mid-first picks.
I'd be cool with trading all our seconds to move up and take a shot at Giles.
I'm assuming Monk is due diligence? Unless he's planning on trading down (which I pry not) Fultz has got to be the pick.

Definitely due diligence.  Although Giles seems like someone who could go anywhere from 10 to 35 this year (like Deyonta Davis last year), so due diligence could be as much to have knowledge if a guy falls as it could be to trade up.

Danny makes a point every year of trying to scout / interview / workout tons and tons of players, even those he has no chance to grab in the current draft.  He has said that it is important to try to build relationships with as many of them as you can when you can because it may pay off later in their careers.   He stated that once they are drafted and on another team, you only get a few chances as a GM to talk to some players (I guess he's referring to tampering rules).    He said that's also why every year when free agency opens, he will call a ton of guys, even though he may not even have any cap space.  He does it because he's allowed to.

I'm betting he has files on every player and all this information goes into it.  Could become useful 4 years later that you know the kid's mom's name when you are trying to coax him to sign in free agency.  Or when you are playing his team down the road that he always fell for a certain fake in workouts.

And yeah, Giles definitely looks like someone who might slip within reach of our first 2nd round pick (#37 from MN).   I've seen his name on mocks all over the place, anywhere from the mid-teens all the way down to the top of the 2nd round.   I guess it will come down to how far he falls before someone takes a flyer on the potential he showed before the injuries.   Danny has certainly not been afraid to pull that trigger in the past (Sully).

[jpotter33]

Maybe Ainge has a move planned out that will net the Celtics another mid 1st and provide more cap flexibility to go after a Hayward or Blake.  AB in a trade perhaps.[/b] 


Or he is just checking out all the possibilities in case a good trade in the mid rounds come up.

This is what I was thinking. Mid to late lotto sounds about right for an AB trade. Actually, Minnesota at 7 would be really interesting. AB would be an excellebt fit between Rubio and Wiggins, and if they traded Rubio then he should work well with Dunn, too.

Not sure AB can draw the number 7 pick by himself, though. Would people add Yab to it if necessary? I'd be ecstatic to add Fultz AND someone like Monk or Isaac to this team. Fultz and Monk make a devastating offensive pairing going forward.

AB landing #7 as an expiring seems exceedingly unlikely.

You arent getting #7 with AB as the centerpiece of your deal.

ALthough, I was surprised to see how cheap the #8 pick went last year, so who knows?

That was also the Kings, so I wouldn't put much stock into that.  I do still wish we could've got Chriss there, though. Love his potential as a super athletic stretch 4.

As I said above, I don't think AB gets you number 7 by himself, but I'm not sure what else we would add to the deal. I wouldn't do the Memphis pick, but maybe the Clips pick would get it done? I mean, can you imagine getting Monk there to add to Fultz and Brown? A 1/2/3 of Fultz, Monk, Brown legitimately has close to Curry, Thompson, Durant-type potential - probably not as good offensive potential but better defensive potential. Wouldn't mind Isaac there either.

[saltlover]

Wow Ainge really shut down Jackie Mac's rumor of IT being shopped for a lottery pick last offseason.
Ainge: "Why would I trade away our best player for a lottery pick when we already have 8 picks AND we are trying to sign Kevin Durant and Al Horford?

It makes zero sense.
He seemed pretty angry about that one. I wonder how much of this is protecting his relationship with Isaiah and acting slighty upset about such a rumor.

Good talk, TP for the notification it was out...

Fake news is rampant in the sports media, because sources aren't identified. It's easy for a writer to create something to have impact and get attention. On the other hand, Danny is entitled to some privacy--especially in potential deals that don't happen. There are players involved who have feelings and loyalties. Players are mentioned in deals all the time that don't happen. You have to deny this kind of stuff.

I think it's clear this is the year Ainge has to get off the pot and get this team to the next level.
He can start by drafting Fultz. I would forget about the rest of the draft. Focus next on FAs and trades. There are a lot of mediocre players, mainly up front, that need to be unloaded or traded. I think IT might be expendable if they can sign another scorer like Hayward. They also need one or two bigs who can bang. Take the pressure off Horford up front.

It's asinine to call something "fake news" because it is based on anonymous sourcing.  A significant amount of investigative journalism, sports or otherwise, relies on unnamed sources. This does not in anyway mean that it is not true or "fake" as you call it. Journalists could not function if all their sources had to be named, and no one would talk to them because of the potential exposure they would face.  Thinking this way is just a fundamental misunderstand of how a free press works. 

You're also accusing MacMullin of making this all up, which is extremely offensive to her.  Fabricating stories is basically the worst thing you can do in journalism and she has a pretty stellar record that doesn't warrant that kind of slander.

Now that being said, what is of utmost importance is for a journalist to confirm the veracity of the information they are being given and that the source of that info is reliable and trustworthy. Here's where I think Jackie Mac fails.  She's probably reporting from a single source without independent verification, which is problematic.  This scenario makes the journalist look like a tool of the source.  This is how Phil Jackson and Charley Rosen function.  Rosen is Phil's mouthpiece. That's not reporting, that's PR. Jackie falls into that sometimes.

One of three things is true:

1) Jackie Mac knowingly passed along a fake rumor.
2) Jackie Mac unknowingly passed along a fake rumor that she could have deduced was fake if she thought about it for more than 10 seconds.
3) Jackie Max outright lied on her own.

None of them are good, but it's one of those three.  If that's offensive to her, she needs to do her job better.

With "off-the-record" sources, major news organizations require multiple corroborations.  There's no way she got multiple corroborations, nor attempted to.

[mmmmm]

Back on topic....

I don't get why folks think we can jettison IT but still lure Gordon Hayward from the Jazz.  He's not coming here to play with a bunch of rookies...

Seems to me we are looking at a fork in the road.

1-  draft Fultz, extend our own guys & pass on this class of B-grade max FA's.  Make Fultz beat out AB and IT to earn a starting job.  Retain bench chemistry and build-from-within culture.

2-  trade Fultz/Amir/Crowder for a vet who can score 25ppg.  Renounce all the FA and use the space to add Hayward and create a contending big 4 around (IT, GH, Horford, and whomever we trade Fultz for)

That strikes me as a false dichotomy.  Why wouldn't you:  Draft Fultz and sign Hayward (a vet who can score 25 ppg)?   

I don't get the idea that we can't have a mix of both veterans and youth on this roster.   What turned San Antonio into such a fantastic long sustained run of success wasn't a reboot full of just babies.   They started with a mix of both veterans (i.e. Robinson, Elliott, Avery Johnson, etc.) and youth (Duncan in particular, but also Malik Rose).   They then kept adding youth as older players aged out of the picture.

[moiso]

Ive heard that Harry Giles is one of the stupidest basketball players of all time.

Supposedly the reason he couldnt get on the court at duke was because he didnt grasp their defense AT ALL.

This I did not know. 

[moiso]

Back on topic....

I don't get why folks think we can jettison IT but still lure Gordon Hayward from the Jazz.  He's not coming here to play with a bunch of rookies...

Seems to me we are looking at a fork in the road.

1-  draft Fultz, extend our own guys & pass on this class of B-grade max FA's.  Make Fultz beat out AB and IT to earn a starting job.  Retain bench chemistry and build-from-within culture.

2-  trade Fultz/Amir/Crowder for a vet who can score 25ppg.  Renounce all the FA and use the space to add Hayward and create a contending big 4 around (IT, GH, Horford, and whomever we trade Fultz for)

That strikes me as a false dichotomy.  Why wouldn't you:  Draft Fultz and sign Hayward (a vet who can score 25 ppg)?   

I don't get the idea that we can't have a mix of both veterans and youth on this roster.   What turned San Antonio into such a fantastic long sustained run of success wasn't a reboot full of just babies.   They started with a mix of both veterans (i.e. Robinson, Elliott, Avery Johnson, etc.) and youth (Duncan in particular, but also Malik Rose).   They then kept adding youth as older players aged out of the picture.

I've made this point before.  Some posters here won't be happy until the entire roster is just about the same age... which is crazy.

[blackbird]

Wow Ainge really shut down Jackie Mac's rumor of IT being shopped for a lottery pick last offseason.
Ainge: "Why would I trade away our best player for a lottery pick when we already have 8 picks AND we are trying to sign Kevin Durant and Al Horford?

It makes zero sense.
He seemed pretty angry about that one. I wonder how much of this is protecting his relationship with Isaiah and acting slighty upset about such a rumor.

Good talk, TP for the notification it was out...

Fake news is rampant in the sports media, because sources aren't identified. It's easy for a writer to create something to have impact and get attention. On the other hand, Danny is entitled to some privacy--especially in potential deals that don't happen. There are players involved who have feelings and loyalties. Players are mentioned in deals all the time that don't happen. You have to deny this kind of stuff.

I think it's clear this is the year Ainge has to get off the pot and get this team to the next level.
He can start by drafting Fultz. I would forget about the rest of the draft. Focus next on FAs and trades. There are a lot of mediocre players, mainly up front, that need to be unloaded or traded. I think IT might be expendable if they can sign another scorer like Hayward. They also need one or two bigs who can bang. Take the pressure off Horford up front.

It's asinine to call something "fake news" because it is based on anonymous sourcing.  A significant amount of investigative journalism, sports or otherwise, relies on unnamed sources. This does not in anyway mean that it is not true or "fake" as you call it. Journalists could not function if all their sources had to be named, and no one would talk to them because of the potential exposure they would face.  Thinking this way is just a fundamental misunderstand of how a free press works. 

You're also accusing MacMullin of making this all up, which is extremely offensive to her.  Fabricating stories is basically the worst thing you can do in journalism and she has a pretty stellar record that doesn't warrant that kind of slander.

Now that being said, what is of utmost importance is for a journalist to confirm the veracity of the information they are being given and that the source of that info is reliable and trustworthy. Here's where I think Jackie Mac fails.  She's probably reporting from a single source without independent verification, which is problematic.  This scenario makes the journalist look like a tool of the source.  This is how Phil Jackson and Charley Rosen function.  Rosen is Phil's mouthpiece. That's not reporting, that's PR. Jackie falls into that sometimes.

One of three things is true:

1) Jackie Mac knowingly passed along a fake rumor.
2) Jackie Mac unknowingly passed along a fake rumor that she could have deduced was fake if she thought about it for more than 10 seconds.
3) Jackie Max outright lied on her own.

None of them are good, but it's one of those three.  If that's offensive to her, she needs to do her job better.

With "off-the-record" sources, major news organizations require multiple corroborations.  There's no way she got multiple corroborations, nor attempted to.

Or option 4 is that Ainge is lying and Jackie Mac's report was true.

Please provide some evidence that "major news organizations require multiple corroborations" and that "there's no way she got nor attempted to" receive corroborations. Pretty ironic that you would just throw that out there as fact.

[kozlodoev]

That strikes me as a false dichotomy.  Why wouldn't you:  Draft Fultz and sign Hayward (a vet who can score 25 ppg)?

Is this what folks around here think of Hayward? No wonder everyone has an unreasonable fixation on acquiring him.

Hayward averaged 22 ppg this season, far and away his best. For his seven-season career, he's averaged 18 pp36 (20 over his last three seasons). All this on a Utah roster where he's had to "share" the scoring burden with the likes of George Hill, Derrick Favors, and Rodney Hood.

He's a decent piece, but he's not it. And you're definitely not getting a 25 ppg scorer, even if he's not playing next to Isaiah Thomas.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

That strikes me as a false dichotomy.  Why wouldn't you:  Draft Fultz and sign Hayward (a vet who can score 25 ppg)?

Is this what folks around here think of Hayward? No wonder everyone has an unreasonable fixation on acquiring him.

Hayward averaged 22 ppg this season, far and away his best. For his seven-season career, he's averaged 18 pp36 (20 over his last three seasons). All this on a Utah roster where he's had to "share" the scoring burden with the likes of George Hill, Derrick Favors, and Rodney Hood.

He's a decent piece, but he's not it. And you're definitely not getting a 25 ppg scorer, even if he's not playing next to Isaiah Thomas.

hhmmnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Grindfather]

Wow Ainge really shut down Jackie Mac's rumor of IT being shopped for a lottery pick last offseason.
Ainge: "Why would I trade away our best player for a lottery pick when we already have 8 picks AND we are trying to sign Kevin Durant and Al Horford?

It makes zero sense.
He seemed pretty angry about that one. I wonder how much of this is protecting his relationship with Isaiah and acting slighty upset about such a rumor.

Good talk, TP for the notification it was out...

Fake news is rampant in the sports media, because sources aren't identified. It's easy for a writer to create something to have impact and get attention. On the other hand, Danny is entitled to some privacy--especially in potential deals that don't happen. There are players involved who have feelings and loyalties. Players are mentioned in deals all the time that don't happen. You have to deny this kind of stuff.

I think it's clear this is the year Ainge has to get off the pot and get this team to the next level.
He can start by drafting Fultz. I would forget about the rest of the draft. Focus next on FAs and trades. There are a lot of mediocre players, mainly up front, that need to be unloaded or traded. I think IT might be expendable if they can sign another scorer like Hayward. They also need one or two bigs who can bang. Take the pressure off Horford up front.

It's asinine to call something "fake news" because it is based on anonymous sourcing.  A significant amount of investigative journalism, sports or otherwise, relies on unnamed sources. This does not in anyway mean that it is not true or "fake" as you call it. Journalists could not function if all their sources had to be named, and no one would talk to them because of the potential exposure they would face.  Thinking this way is just a fundamental misunderstand of how a free press works. 

You're also accusing MacMullin of making this all up, which is extremely offensive to her.  Fabricating stories is basically the worst thing you can do in journalism and she has a pretty stellar record that doesn't warrant that kind of slander.

Now that being said, what is of utmost importance is for a journalist to confirm the veracity of the information they are being given and that the source of that info is reliable and trustworthy. Here's where I think Jackie Mac fails.  She's probably reporting from a single source without independent verification, which is problematic.  This scenario makes the journalist look like a tool of the source.  This is how Phil Jackson and Charley Rosen function.  Rosen is Phil's mouthpiece. That's not reporting, that's PR. Jackie falls into that sometimes.

One of three things is true:

1) Jackie Mac knowingly passed along a fake rumor.
2) Jackie Mac unknowingly passed along a fake rumor that she could have deduced was fake if she thought about it for more than 10 seconds.
3) Jackie Max outright lied on her own.

None of them are good, but it's one of those three.  If that's offensive to her, she needs to do her job better.

With "off-the-record" sources, major news organizations require multiple corroborations.  There's no way she got multiple corroborations, nor attempted to.

Or option 4 is that Ainge is lying and Jackie Mac's report was true.

Please provide some evidence that "major news organizations require multiple corroborations" and that "there's no way she got nor attempted to" receive corroborations. Pretty ironic that you would just throw that out there as fact.

Not being a good reporter is not the same as being a fraud and liar.  Fabricating stories, at least outside of the Breitbart-Info Wars world, is a major scandal.  Suggesting Jackie Mac is lazy and kinda sucks is totally valid, suggesting she outright made up a story is not. 

A lot of people have their sources that they sort of serve as a mouthpiece for, PJax-Rosen, LeBron-Windhorst. I think those reporters are mostly trash. I don't really respect Jackie Mac anymore either for just that reason, but I take issue with calling any anonymously source story "fake news."  That's some idiotic Trumpism garbage that denigrates journalism as a whole.