Author Topic: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?  (Read 4229 times)

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Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2017, 08:27:46 AM »

Offline td450

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If you want 3 max free agents on this team then you need to keep Crowder. You can't just ignore the severity of the luxury tax when building a team. There definitely isn't an appreciation of how oppressive the luxury tax is in this CBA.

Crowder's contract only helps if it lets you avoid a max contract, not if you want to add them. A $7M starter is a great deal. A $7M player behind Hayward, George and Brown isn't so awesome.


Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2017, 08:30:51 AM »

Offline Chris22

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Keep IT and Bradley and shoot for a championship next season.
Then sign George and go with Fultz, Brown, George, Horford, and .....

Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2017, 08:39:37 AM »

Offline TheSundanceKid

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If you want 3 max free agents on this team then you need to keep Crowder. You can't just ignore the severity of the luxury tax when building a team. There definitely isn't an appreciation of how oppressive the luxury tax is in this CBA.

Crowder's contract only helps if it lets you avoid a max contract, not if you want to add them. A $7M starter is a great deal. A $7M player behind Hayward, George and Brown isn't so awesome.
There is literally no scenario where we get George and Hayward so I don't know where that has come from. No way we could afford to pay them either...

The 3 max contracts would be Horford, IT, George/Hayward/Butler. Paying them all the max tops $90m in payroll. Behind we will need role players who can actually contribute, of which Crowder is one locked in at a below market rate. Get rid of him and your only option to replace him is a vet min contract. How many guys on the vet min are better than Crowder?

Ownership will pay the luxury tax but they don't have endless pockets. What is the limit? $130m? $140m? Noone so far has gone above that. With 3 max players and presumably 3 top 3 picks we are basically at $110m in 2018-19. I haven't yet counted Smart and KO coming off their rookie deals or Zizic and Yab.

Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2017, 08:44:33 AM »

Offline jambr380

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If you want 3 max free agents on this team then you need to keep Crowder. You can't just ignore the severity of the luxury tax when building a team. There definitely isn't an appreciation of how oppressive the luxury tax is in this CBA.

Crowder's contract only helps if it lets you avoid a max contract, not if you want to add them. A $7M starter is a great deal. A $7M player behind Hayward, George and Brown isn't so awesome.

The MLE for next year is slotted at $8.4M which is more than Crowder is making. It's great if you think we can sign better players than Crowder for the MLE (after we go over the cap, not this year), but that is not likely.

If the Cs sign Hayward, they WILL go over the luxury tax after next season to sign two of IT/AB/Smart -  it gets even worse if they keep KO. People need to do a little research on just how harsh the luxury tax is on teams, especially repeat 'offenders'. It's no joke.



Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2017, 12:13:26 PM »

Offline td450

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If you want 3 max free agents on this team then you need to keep Crowder. You can't just ignore the severity of the luxury tax when building a team. There definitely isn't an appreciation of how oppressive the luxury tax is in this CBA.

Crowder's contract only helps if it lets you avoid a max contract, not if you want to add them. A $7M starter is a great deal. A $7M player behind Hayward, George and Brown isn't so awesome.
There is literally no scenario where we get George and Hayward so I don't know where that has come from. No way we could afford to pay them either...

The 3 max contracts would be Horford, IT, George/Hayward/Butler. Paying them all the max tops $90m in payroll. Behind we will need role players who can actually contribute, of which Crowder is one locked in at a below market rate. Get rid of him and your only option to replace him is a vet min contract. How many guys on the vet min are better than Crowder?

Ownership will pay the luxury tax but they don't have endless pockets. What is the limit? $130m? $140m? Noone so far has gone above that. With 3 max players and presumably 3 top 3 picks we are basically at $110m in 2018-19. I haven't yet counted Smart and KO coming off their rookie deals or Zizic and Yab.

Signing Hayward means we want to go for it now. There is no point to signing Hayward, then shedding substantial talent to avoid heavy luxury taxes. You could argue that swapping Hayward for Bradley and KO would still make us marginally better, but that won't get us past Cleveland and GS. Why bother? We will certainly have a top 4 team next year if we do nothing.

If we chase Hayward, that is a signal from management that they will pay whatever it takes to maximize talent at the expense of profits. Doing this halfway isn't worth bothering with.


Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2017, 12:26:43 PM »

Offline footey

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I want Yabu here next season. Would be fine letting Kelly go. Yabs can play 4 to Al's or Zizic's 5.

Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2017, 12:33:17 PM »

Offline BostonClamCrowdah

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Kelly is not good and Crowder is easily replaceable

Not sure why so manny here are so attached to mediocre players

Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2017, 12:34:02 PM »

Offline kozlodoev

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If you want 3 max free agents on this team then you need to keep Crowder. You can't just ignore the severity of the luxury tax when building a team. There definitely isn't an appreciation of how oppressive the luxury tax is in this CBA.

Crowder's contract only helps if it lets you avoid a max contract, not if you want to add them. A $7M starter is a great deal. A $7M player behind Hayward, George and Brown isn't so awesome.
Maybe five years ago. Right now, seven million is likely less than the going rate for a competent bench player.
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Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2017, 12:38:29 PM »

Offline BostonClamCrowdah

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Also LOL at getting George and Hayward

Not gonna happen. Bad idea, too.

Keep those draft picks. Keep Brown. George and Hayward ain't gonna beat LBJ and certainly ain't gonna beat GSW.. so you stay competitive now, and set yourself up for the future when LBJ is gone and GSW is probably broken up a bit.

Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2017, 01:02:31 PM »

Offline OldSchoolDude

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I'd like to keep Crowder until his contract is up.  I see JB as being a sg and if we get Hayward he'll start at sf, so Crowder would be coming of the bench at sf. That would make the bench really strong.  I think we need to move two of IT, Smart, Bradly, Rozier.  IT and Bradlyare UFA in 2018 and Smart is a RFA.  So my guess is we keep Rozier and move on from two of  IT, Smart, Bradly.  It is going to be some tough calls for Danny to make on these players.  Since I believe the future back court will be Fultz and Brown, and we're talking about who will back them up I'd keep Bradly.  I think a second unit back court of Rozier and Bradly would be very good and more suited to coming off the bench than IT and Smart, who should go somewhere where they can start.

Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2017, 01:10:49 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Kelly is not good and Crowder is easily replaceable

Not sure why so manny here are so attached to mediocre players

Hopefully you have been reading some of the responses on why Crowder may be one of the least replaceable pieces on the roster. And, seriously, your name is BostonClamCrowdah, how could you not want him to remain with the team?


Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2017, 01:13:16 PM »

Offline jambr380

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I want Yabu here next season. Would be fine letting Kelly go. Yabs can play 4 to Al's or Zizic's 5.

This is a very distinct possibility. We have already discussed why keeping AB is next to impossible with a Hayward signing, but KO at anything north of like $11-12M/yr could also be a real issue. Yabs may not be the true answer, but he is cheap.

It's also possible Danny signs KO to a semi-team friendly contract, plays out the year and then attempts to trade him to a team with cap space for a pick. In this case, I guess we will have to wait on Yabusele.

Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2017, 01:21:46 PM »

Offline BostonClamCrowdah

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Kelly is not good and Crowder is easily replaceable

Not sure why so manny here are so attached to mediocre players

Hopefully you have been reading some of the responses on why Crowder may be one of the least replaceable pieces on the roster. And, seriously, your name is BostonClamCrowdah, how could you not want him to remain with the team?

Sure hed be a valuable piece off the bench

But if you're passing on Hayward because you don't want to lose Crowder, you're a helpless green teamer who can't objectively look at the team and see what needs to be done


Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2017, 01:35:09 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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If you want 3 max free agents on this team then you need to keep Crowder. You can't just ignore the severity of the luxury tax when building a team. There definitely isn't an appreciation of how oppressive the luxury tax is in this CBA.

Crowder's contract only helps if it lets you avoid a max contract, not if you want to add them. A $7M starter is a great deal. A $7M player behind Hayward, George and Brown isn't so awesome.
There is literally no scenario where we get George and Hayward so I don't know where that has come from. No way we could afford to pay them either...

This isn't true. There are multiple scenarios where we could get Hayward and George. They aren't scenarios that I would like but there are scenarios.

1. We could keep Zizic and Yabu overseas, renounce all our free agents and sign Hayward. Then we could trade Bradley and Crowder (plus picks) for George.

2. We could trade the first pick, plus Bradley for George and then deal Crowder to a team with cap space.

3. We could trade Isaiah and Bradley for George then move a small piece to clear space for Hayward.

As to your apprehension about paying a big tax bill, it's not like it's your money right? I think paying the tax is actually a good idea. Since Boston is a big market team, we have a competitive advantage in that we produce more revenue than other teams. We can take advantage of that by having a high salary and staying above the tax.

Even if we go into the tax this year or next it doesn't mean we will stay there. Jaylen won't be a free agent until after Al is gone and neither will Fultz. I don't see a problem with paying a high tax bill then when the veteran contracts are up we can cut ties with them and replace them with younger players.
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Re: If we get rid of Crowder, enough $$ Hayward?
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2017, 01:36:25 PM »

Offline jambr380

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Kelly is not good and Crowder is easily replaceable

Not sure why so manny here are so attached to mediocre players

Hopefully you have been reading some of the responses on why Crowder may be one of the least replaceable pieces on the roster. And, seriously, your name is BostonClamCrowdah, how could you not want him to remain with the team?

Sure hed be a valuable piece off the bench

But if you're passing on Hayward because you don't want to lose Crowder, you're a helpless green teamer who can't objectively look at the team and see what needs to be done

Nobody here is passing on Hayward to keep Crowder. They are keeping Crowder over AB since he will cost tens of millions of dollars more than Crowder. There is literally an exponential effect on contract dollars when a team hits the luxury tax.

Most every scenario involves bringing in Hayward, but there have to be sacrifices in doing so.