Poll

If the Celtics have to make this decision who do you move forward with

Fultz, Bradley, Hayward
36 (54.5%)
Thomas, Fultz, Hayward
30 (45.5%)

Total Members Voted: 66

Author Topic: Poll: Which Core do you prefer  (Read 4648 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« on: May 24, 2017, 03:25:26 AM »

Offline KG Living Legend

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8635
  • Tommy Points: 1136
 It's a hard decision. With Thomas the offense is fantastic, but there maybe too many ball handlers.

 Bradley maybe the perfect fit for Fultz and Hayward. I'm leaning towards keeping Avery.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:58:50 AM by KG Living Legend »

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2017, 03:39:19 AM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
Brown, fultz, BKN2018 (porter Jr, bamba, ayton)

Choosing between IT and Bradley isn't a big deal long term to me. Pairing fultz with any competent guard will make said guard significantly better  with the playmaking ability of fultz. Smart would probably break out and become a different better player
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 03:51:24 AM by CelticsElite »

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2017, 04:42:40 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2421
  • Tommy Points: 258
Basically, you're asking whether we should replace Thomas or Bradley with Hayward (basically signing Hayward will make it extremely unlikely you could sign both, so in effect that's what his signing will mean).

Right now, I would say Bradley, but that is based on some assumptions:

1) Thomas' injury will mean he won't reach the peak form he did this season ever again, though he'll still be very good.
2) A precondition to Hayward signing isn't that we have to re-sign Isaiah.
3) Thomas will demand a larger salary than Bradley, anywhere from an additional 6-10 million/year.
4) Fultz's defense will not be a strong suit right away meaning Bradley's D would be sorely required.

There's another little factor that I haven't seen mentioned: Isaiah is 1 year, 9 months, 19 days older than Bradley. When you consider how effective they will be during the course of their next contracts, you have to estimate Bradley at an extra 1.8 years of "peak" levels compared to Thomas. In fact, it's reasonable to assume that Bradley will still be near-peak throughout most of a 4 or 5 year deal (age 28-32/33 seasons).

Thomas will be 29.75 when the 2018 season starts. At the end of a 4 or 5 year deal he'd already be over 34-35 years old. Since his game is based on athleticism and he's extremely height-challenged there's a high chance his game would suffer more with age than other PGs. If he cannot get his shot off and his defense is a negative as usual, he'll essentially be useless on the court.

So yeah, put me in the Bradley camp if we sign Hayward. I am starting to think that Thomas won't get crazy offers in free agency though, for the reasons that I just mentioned and also due to the depth of the PG position around the league.


Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2017, 06:26:20 AM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58470
  • Tommy Points: -25640
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I'm very skeptical that Hayward leaves Utah if we trade IT. I think some of you have forgotten just how great Thomas' season was.

I like AB, but he's a complementary player, not a star.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2017, 07:30:18 AM »

Offline obnoxiousmime

  • Bailey Howell
  • **
  • Posts: 2421
  • Tommy Points: 258
I'm very skeptical that Hayward leaves Utah if we trade IT. I think some of you have forgotten just how great Thomas' season was.

I like AB, but he's a complementary player, not a star.

Definitely. However, I don't think the Celtics will deal him this offseason as his injury pretty much destroys whatever value he had with only one year left on his deal. I was basing my opinion on the merits of the deal itself versus the merits of a deal for Bradley.

It's very possible that what makes Thomas an elite scorer, and thus a "star," will not be sustainable during the course of his deal. He has shooting ability which should not age dramatically, but his ability to get his shot off will decrease. And his defense will be similarly bad or worse.

I wonder if any of the Thomas boosters really believe he'll be able to maintain his current level of production at age 29.75 through 35.4 (2018 - 2023 season including playoffs). I don't think the Celtics should massively overpay him the last 2-3 years of the deal just for those first 2 seasons or so where he still has it, especially when we will have a younger option on a rookie deal for 3 of those years.

I'd really only overpay him if I thought we were definitely throwing all our chips on the table and going for it in 2018/2019. That would really depend on Isaiah's injury recovery, how Fultz looks his rookie year, what the Cavs and Warriors look like in next season's playoffs, and if we manage to somehow get that elusive competent PF somehow.

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2017, 01:37:58 PM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34022
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
IT is the primary draw for other top players to come to the Celtics.   


Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2017, 01:42:46 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
No way Hayward signs if we trade Thomas
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2017, 01:49:23 PM »

Offline Big333223

  • NCE
  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7477
  • Tommy Points: 736
I voted with Bradley for the financial concerns IT brings.
1957, 1959, 1960, 1961, 1962, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1968, 1969, 1974, 1976, 1981, 1984, 1986, 2008

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2017, 01:51:55 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58470
  • Tommy Points: -25640
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
I voted with Bradley for the financial concerns IT brings.

Bradley brings similar, if not equal, salary concerns.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2017, 01:54:52 PM »

Offline gouki88

  • NCE
  • Red Auerbach
  • *******************************
  • Posts: 31552
  • Tommy Points: 3141
  • 2019 & 2021 CS Historical Draft Champion
I voted with Bradley for the financial concerns IT brings.

Bradley brings similar, if not equal, salary concerns.
Glad I'm not the one who has to make these decisions.
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2017, 01:57:30 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

  • Don Nelson
  • ********
  • Posts: 8595
  • Tommy Points: 842
I voted with Bradley for the financial concerns IT brings.

Bradley brings similar, if not equal, salary concerns.
I expect Bradley to reel in ~25 mil. I expect Thomas to be a max guy.
Quote from: George W. Bush
Too often, we judge other groups by their worst examples while judging ourselves by our best intentions.

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 02:04:24 PM »

Offline CelticsElite

  • NCE
  • Danny Ainge
  • **********
  • Posts: 10774
  • Tommy Points: 789
No way Hayward signs if we trade Thomas
what is stopping us from trading IT midseason? Nothing. Hayward would be under contract then

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 02:05:07 PM »

Offline action781

  • Rajon Rondo
  • *****
  • Posts: 5217
  • Tommy Points: 609
I voted with Bradley for the financial concerns IT brings.

Bradley brings similar, if not equal, salary concerns.
I expect Bradley to reel in ~25 mil. I expect Thomas to be a max guy.
But relative to their performance, that would yield similar concerns, no?  Bradley also has a more sketchy history with injuries coming with that large chunk of money.

I personally like a future with Bradley a bit more, but that's only if the price is right.   At ~$25 mil, I have to let him walk.  I personally don't want IT at the max either.  I think/hope we should be able to get one of them for decent value when the time comes though and I'm happy with either at a fair price.
2020 CelticsStrong All-2000s Draft -- Utah Jazz
 
Finals Starters:  Jason Kidd - Reggie Miller - PJ Tucker - Al Horford - Shaq
Bench:  Rajon Rondo - Trae Young - Marcus Smart - Jaylen Brown -  Peja Stojakovic - Jamal Mashburn - Carlos Boozer - Tristan Thompson - Mehmet Okur

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 02:18:41 PM »

Offline Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 58470
  • Tommy Points: -25640
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley
No way Hayward signs if we trade Thomas
what is stopping us from trading IT midseason? Nothing. Hayward would be under contract then

I mean, if you don't mind burning bridges with your players, agents and future free agents, this is an option.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Poll: Which Core do you prefer
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 02:24:10 PM »

Offline wdleehi

  • In The Rafters
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 34022
  • Tommy Points: 1607
  • Basketball is Newtonian Physics
No way Hayward signs if we trade Thomas
what is stopping us from trading IT midseason? Nothing. Hayward would be under contract then

I mean, if you don't mind burning bridges with your players, agents and future free agents, this is an option.


It really depends on how the guard rotation works together.   If IT and Fultz do not work well together, you could see Ainge going to Hayward and Horford and explain a plan to move IT but still go for contending. 



Of course, I expect those two to work together.