Author Topic: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap  (Read 14059 times)

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Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2017, 10:55:53 AM »

Offline Denis998

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It will be interesting to see how Swanigan's workouts go. I'll be surprised if he stays in the draft.

The guy is 6'7 and can't jump, and isn't an NBA athlete. I don't think he can be much more than a guy on the end of the bench.
He actually have a very interesting skill set and can become quite a serviceable player if he gets in shape. In college he proved that he could stretch the floor shooting 45% from 3. He also is a serviceable rebounder averaging 12.5 a game. His game is very similar to that of Kevin Love's
His post game needs some refinement, and can stand to loose like 15 lbs.

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2017, 11:13:41 AM »

Offline Busta

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I'll take a shot, I ran all this through a spreadsheet so it works under the cap.

Draft: 1st rd: Markelle Fultz G
          2nd rd: Jonathan Motley C
          2nd rd: Jonah Bolden SF
          2nd rd: Egemen Guven C

Stash overseas: Bolden, Guven, Yabasule

Renounce: Amir Johnson, Tyler Zeller, Jonah Jerebko, Kelly Olynyk, James Young, Jordan Mickey, Gerald Green

Sign Free Agents:
- Gordon Hayward (Max)
- Andrew Bogut (Room Exemption)
- Kris Humphries (Vet Min)
- Abdel Nader (Min)

Trade: To PHL: Avery Bradley G
            To BOS: Richaun Holmes C/PF, Future lotto protected 1st rd pick

C: Al Horford/Andrew Bogut/Ante Zizic
PF: Richaun Holmes/Kris Humphries/Jonathan Motley
SF: Jaylen Brown/Jae Crowder/Abdel Nader
SG: Gordon Hayward/Marcus Smart/Terry Rozier
PG: Isaiah Thomas/Markelle Fultz/Demetrius Jackson



Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2017, 11:19:23 AM »

Offline jpotter33

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Step 1: Draft Fultz. Trade Rozier and Jackson at the draft.

Step 2: Renounce all free agents and non-guaranteed contracts, including KO.

Step 3: Sign Griffin with cap space. Bring over Zizic. Convince Yab to stay put another year.

Step 4: Sign Bosh (room exception?). Resign Green for the vet minimum.

Lineup -

PG: IT, Fultz
SG: AB, Smart, Green
SF: Brown, Crowder
PF: Griffin, Bosh
C: Horford, Zizic

Then in 2018:

- Draft a franchise big;

- Assuming Fultz is as good as advertised, let IT walk (he won't bring back much in a trade anyways) and give Fultz the reins at PG;

- Resign AB and Smart;

Lineup -

PG: Fultz, ?
SG: AB, Smart
SF: Brown, Crowder
PF: Griffin, Draftee/Bosh
C: Horford, Zizic

I *believe* this all works under the CBA.

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2017, 11:21:14 AM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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1. Draft Fultz
2. Trade IT to the Mavs for the 9th pick.
3. Draft Isaac
4. Sign Hayward

Alternatively
1. Draft Fultz
2. Trade IT to the Sixers for Saric (imo Saric > #9)
3. Sign Hayward

Alternatively (pipe dream scenario)
1. Draft Fultz
2. Trade IT + Memphis 2019 first + rights to Zizic for Myles Turner
3. Sign Hayward

Fultz - Smart
Bradley - Brown
Hayward - Crowder
Saric/Isaac/Turner - veteran via free agency
Horford - Zizic/veteran via free agency

These were my ideas before IT's injury, TP. However, with no guarantee he'll fully recover, we can't trade him for value this offseason, and at the deadline no-one will give you good return for a four month rental. The only option is if he's perfectly well for training camp...

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2017, 11:56:04 AM »

Offline D Dub

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Reading through these different ideas, I didn't really appreciate how much we have to gut our team to add Hayward.

My question is, if we are keeping Fultz, does GH still make sense?  Wouldn't the rookie fill that scoring role?

Bradley is such a positive influence on the locker room.  Even though he's due a big payday soon, I'd rather keep him than Crowder -- who appears to be the source of a lot of the arguing you see amongst the players.  Why did they have to separate he and Terry's lockers recently?  IDK, with him I get why he's valuable and I respect his game, but I think he needs a change of scenery.   Some team out there must be willing to part with a future 1st for Jae.

Doing that, we can split the SF mpg exclusively between Smart and Brown, open up a role for Fultz in the guard rotation with IT, AB and Terry.

With the quality of our core, how well our bench plays together, I'm becoming less and less keen on this FA class.

It could be, by 2019, that Jaylen & Fultz are already better players than Blake & Gordon.  Time flies in the NBA...

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #35 on: May 24, 2017, 11:56:12 AM »

Offline tstorey_97

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Thanks for thread and ideas.

If Ainge drafts Fultz he officially has too many guards.
Bradley and Smart are two of the best perimeter defenders in the NBA. They can stay relevant in the league for a long time and I assume are not specifically "max$" players. If you want three max guys some day, it would be handy to have these two playing with them...maybe.

Bradley and Smart stay.

Rozier is a cheap/solid off the bench defender. Not worth trading as there will be no return better than he and he can run the floor adequately when pg gets hurt. Dirt cheap insurance and the kid plays big in big games.

Rozier stays. 

Fultz could be "the man" let's hope so.

Fultz stays.

Odd dynamic here, Jaylen Brown switches to the "2" here and there getting some minutes.

Brown stays.(in the off guard rotation once in awhile)

Crowder is a great "deal" for his solid play. He actually has some trade value because of his contract. If Hayward comes here? If someone else comes here maybe?

Crowder goes.

Thomas misses the beginning of the season while rehabbing after putting together one of the all time great PG seasons. Stevens and Ainge have a big issue to deal with here don't they? Thomas' return takes 38 minutes per game from the above guard rotation...which is the "future" guard rotation. Man the fur is gonna fly on this one here at CB ain't it? Blood in the streets.

IT 2017/18 season saviour or...odd man out.

KO gets pile of money from somewhere.

KO goes

Horford has $27 million reasons to remain.

Al stays

Zizic-Nader-Yabusele...I say one of these guys gets onto the Celtic's bench. They are cheap and have upside. I legitimately don't think it will be Zizic, but, If KO, Zeller and JJ are at the precipice and Ainge doesn't sign any bigs...Zizic gets minutes. He can't shoot threes can he? That's not going to go well in Stevensland. "Z boy? Just go out there and chuck us some treys...waddya mean you don't shoot threes? Get Danny on the phone!"

"Zadersele" stays...somehow

Ainge says "we're going to try and get Hayward" who lives in Utah and California with his wife and baby to move to Boston, play with "#1 draft picks" and get beat by Cavs. I am so unsure about Hayward, I'm not giving him a roster spot here. I hope we get him though. Gawd, if Fultz started to score early in his rookie year and we have Hayward? Dang.

Man, am I going to get hate mail for this roster move. Carmelo Anthony. Good second prize if C's can't get Hayward.

Melo stays and hits enough game winners to make Celtics fans tolerate all the other clap.

Smart is a point guard, so that is where I play him. "Let's play Smart at the two." The other title for two guard is shooting guard and using Marcus name in the same sentence as "shooting" is just plain bad form...let's have him 1)pass to players that can shoot and 2)mangle opponents who are trying to shoot. Belichick would be soooo very proud of us.

Smart/Fultz
Bradley/Rozier
Anthony/Brown/?
Horford/Zadersele
I vote we get a guy who not only CAN play center, but, actually WANTS to play center. You guys know more about potential bigs for this team than I do. Ainge might just keep Zellah, Amiah, JJ and James Young just to torture us.

Ok, so Smart and Bradley lock it down on D. Melo rains us some threes. Brown gets ready to make the jump to 38 minutes. Horford is Horford, Zadersele proves one of them is a "7th best player" and Ainge just rearranges the deck chairs so he can trade for the guy he really wants someday. "My name is Tyler Zeller, my contract was designed to be traded. I get paid a lot and never get cut. I have a video for other veteran NBA players that shows them how to pull this off it's only $19.99."

The above roster, what there is of it, would suit Danny just fine. He knows this ain't a title contender, but, it gets the gold medal for "flexibility". He just wants a bunch of guys he can trade for...anything...24/7.

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #36 on: May 24, 2017, 01:08:53 PM »

Offline LilRip

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The more I think about it, the more I'd hate to see Bradley gone. It's hard to find a guy who is the consummate role player. Except for playmaking, he has almost every other facet of the game in spades. Lockdown shooter, hits FT's, great cutter, good rebounder for his position, 1st team all defense. Plus, he's starting to be able to create for himself off the PnR or the dribble.

Moving forward, I'd really hate to see him and Smart go. That said, let me try this despite my shallow knowledge of salary cap. So not in sequential order:

1. Renounce Amir and KO and the gang
2. Draft Fultz and stash the remaining guys
3. Sign Zizic
4. Package IT, Rozier, Crowder and picks in a trade or 3-team trade for Jimmy Butler (he makes about 17m right?)
5. Sign Hayward for max
6. Fill out the roster with the room exception and vet min guys (or a PF 2nd rounder if we can afford it). I'm thinking maybe like Kris Humphries? Terrence Jones?

Starting Lineup:
Smart/Bradley/Butler/Hayward/Horford

Rotational Bench:
Fultz/Brown/Terrence Jones/Zizic

Benchwarmers aka vet min players:
Steve Novak (for shooting)
Dahntay Jones (for toughness)
James Young (for continuity)
Joel Anthony (for size and toughness)

Obviously I'm grasping at straws at the benchwarmer section. And if we could retain some guys on the team for peanuts (Jordan Mickey?), that's probably a better option. Hopefully someone like Mo Speights or even ol' pal Sully will sign with us for the minimum.
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Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #37 on: May 24, 2017, 01:31:38 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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1. Draft Fultz and Swanigan; use other 2nds on stashes;

2. Trade Avery Bradley for future draft picks (AB to Philly for 2020 OKC #1?);

3. Trade Demetrius Jackson to anyone willing, using a late #2 if necessary;

4. Renounce all free agents except KO;

5. Sign Gordon Hayward with cap space;

6. Sign Chris Bosh with $4.3 million room exception;

7. Sign Zizic and Nader; get Yabu to stay overseas

8. Sign KO

Horford / Zizic
Bosh / KO / Swanigan
Hayward / Crowder / Nader
Brown / Smart
IT / Fultz / Rozier

Bosh is determined to attempt a comeback, and based upon precedent in other leagues, I'm convinced he'll be able to play.

If there's any wiggle room in the cap, I'd hold off on trading Jackson and would try to trade him, Rozier no picks for Kyle O'Quinn.

I actually like this plan quite a bit.  the only deviations I'd offer is getting a better pick or set of picks for AB.  He's worth more than that pick alone.  Ideally he'd be moved for a good front court player.  The only provision on that front court player is I would anticipate adding a very good big man prospect in next year's draft because the Nets will stink again so I'd want the flexibility to add that player without clogging up the front court similar to what we're facing in the backcourt now.

Not optimistic about Bosh's health but if he's cleared medically and he's interested in that kind of a make-good contact, he'd be a terrific pickup.

Love O'Quinn since he joined the league.  tough nosed defender and rebounder.  real hustle guy.

Swanigan and Nader are unlikely to see the court but could turn into end-of-rotation guys eventually.  can't be worse than Young, Mickey and Jackson.

Horford / O'Quinn  / Zizic
Bosh / KO / Swanigan
Hayward / Crowder / Nader
Brown / Smart
IT / Fultz
with hopefully 2 more first rounders from AB deal or another solid front court player. 

I think that team is more than just 1 step closer to the Cavs/GSW level next year.  A lot would hinge upon Bosh though.  Neither Cavs nor GSW would be able to handle Horford and Bosh together.

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #38 on: May 24, 2017, 01:43:54 PM »

Offline Darío SpanishFan

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The more I think about it, the more I'd hate to see Bradley gone. It's hard to find a guy who is the consummate role player. Except for playmaking, he has almost every other facet of the game in spades. Lockdown shooter, hits FT's, great cutter, good rebounder for his position, 1st team all defense. Plus, he's starting to be able to create for himself off the PnR or the dribble.

Moving forward, I'd really hate to see him and Smart go. That said, let me try this despite my shallow knowledge of salary cap. So not in sequential order:

1. Renounce Amir and KO and the gang
2. Draft Fultz and stash the remaining guys
3. Sign Zizic
4. Package IT, Rozier, Crowder and picks in a trade or 3-team trade for Jimmy Butler (he makes about 17m right?)
5. Sign Hayward for max
6. Fill out the roster with the room exception and vet min guys (or a PF 2nd rounder if we can afford it). I'm thinking maybe like Kris Humphries? Terrence Jones?

Starting Lineup:
Smart/Bradley/Butler/Hayward/Horford

Rotational Bench:
Fultz/Brown/Terrence Jones/Zizic

Benchwarmers aka vet min players:
Steve Novak (for shooting)
Dahntay Jones (for toughness)
James Young (for continuity)
Joel Anthony (for size and toughness)

Obviously I'm grasping at straws at the benchwarmer section. And if we could retain some guys on the team for peanuts (Jordan Mickey?), that's probably a better option. Hopefully someone like Mo Speights or even ol' pal Sully will sign with us for the minimum.

Regarding height, Bradley is a PG, Butler a SG, Hayward a SF and Horford a PF. You can start an undersized team in one position or two, but not in four.

Try to get a very good PF/C in this trade instead of Butler and I'm buying your plan. I'm thinking abut a Myles Turner kind of player to start alongside Al.

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2017, 01:50:05 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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The more I think about it, the more I'd hate to see Bradley gone. It's hard to find a guy who is the consummate role player. Except for playmaking, he has almost every other facet of the game in spades. Lockdown shooter, hits FT's, great cutter, good rebounder for his position, 1st team all defense. Plus, he's starting to be able to create for himself off the PnR or the dribble.

Moving forward, I'd really hate to see him and Smart go. That said, let me try this despite my shallow knowledge of salary cap. So not in sequential order:

1. Renounce Amir and KO and the gang
2. Draft Fultz and stash the remaining guys
3. Sign Zizic
4. Package IT, Rozier, Crowder and picks in a trade or 3-team trade for Jimmy Butler (he makes about 17m right?)
5. Sign Hayward for max
6. Fill out the roster with the room exception and vet min guys (or a PF 2nd rounder if we can afford it). I'm thinking maybe like Kris Humphries? Terrence Jones?

Starting Lineup:
Smart/Bradley/Butler/Hayward/Horford

Rotational Bench:
Fultz/Brown/Terrence Jones/Zizic

Benchwarmers aka vet min players:
Steve Novak (for shooting)
Dahntay Jones (for toughness)
James Young (for continuity)
Joel Anthony (for size and toughness)

Obviously I'm grasping at straws at the benchwarmer section. And if we could retain some guys on the team for peanuts (Jordan Mickey?), that's probably a better option. Hopefully someone like Mo Speights or even ol' pal Sully will sign with us for the minimum.

Regarding height, Bradley is a PG, Butler a SG, Hayward a SF and Horford a PF. You can start an undersized team in one position or two, but not in four.

Try to get a very good PF/C in this trade instead of Butler and I'm buying your plan. I'm thinking abut a Myles Turner kind of player to start alongside Al.
Butler absolutely has SF size
Horford has center size and is no longer quick enough to defend the 4(and that will only get worse). Playing a true center like Turner next to him wouldnt be ideal.
Hayward should not be playing the 4.
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Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2017, 02:28:15 PM »

Offline No Nickname

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For all of you who say "Convince Yabu to stay overseas for a year" I'm curious who will have to go in 2018-19 in order for the C's to have a roster spot for him, the Nets #1, the C's #1, and potentially the Grizzlies' #1?  That's four new players. 

Do you draft-and-stash one of them? (keeping the players drafted with the Net's pick and Grizzlies' pick on the 15 man roster)

Here's the roster many of you are hoping for at the start of the 20167-18 season:

Isaiah Thomas
Avery Bradley (or traded in exchange for a rebounding big)
Gordon Hayward
Al Horford
Ante Zizic

Marcus Smart
Markelle Fultz
Jaylen Brown
Jae Crowder
Kelly Olynyk (some have said he might go, but let's keep him for now)

Terry Rozier
Abdel Nader
TBD
TBD
TBD

So for 2018-19, assuming (and this is a big assumption) everyone above is playing well, we want to keep them, and their contract situations can be worked out, do you slide Yabu and two of those first rounders into the TBD slots?  That's also assuming whoever has those slots in 2017-18 is signed on a one-year contract and can be cut?

 

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2017, 02:39:48 PM »

Offline Roy H.

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For all of you who say "Convince Yabu to stay overseas for a year" I'm curious who will have to go in 2018-19 in order for the C's to have a roster spot for him, the Nets #1, the C's #1, and potentially the Grizzlies' #1?  That's four new players. 

Do you draft-and-stash one of them? (keeping the players drafted with the Net's pick and Grizzlies' pick on the 15 man roster)

Here's the roster many of you are hoping for at the start of the 20167-18 season:

Isaiah Thomas
Avery Bradley (or traded in exchange for a rebounding big)
Gordon Hayward
Al Horford
Ante Zizic

Marcus Smart
Markelle Fultz
Jaylen Brown
Jae Crowder
Kelly Olynyk (some have said he might go, but let's keep him for now)

Terry Rozier
Abdel Nader
TBD
TBD
TBD

So for 2018-19, assuming (and this is a big assumption) everyone above is playing well, we want to keep them, and their contract situations can be worked out, do you slide Yabu and two of those first rounders into the TBD slots?  That's also assuming whoever has those slots in 2017-18 is signed on a one-year contract and can be cut?

 

If Yabu looks like he can play, there's no reason not to sign him into one of those three spots, or Nader's.

You can't have all of Hayward, AB, and KO, so one of those slots is open, too.


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Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2017, 02:54:17 PM »

Offline No Nickname

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You can't have all of Hayward, AB, and KO, so one of those slots is open, too.

Unless Hayward can be convinced that giving up a few million dollars off of a $150M+ deal would allow the Celtics to keep those three, making the team that much more equipped to take out the Cavaliers.

Slim chance I know.  But at the very least let's assume a trade of AB or KO brings back in another player.  There's no way Danny would let KO walk this summer with nothing in return, correct?

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2017, 03:11:34 PM »

Offline Smitty77

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It will be interesting to see how Swanigan's workouts go. I'll be surprised if he stays in the draft.

The guy is 6'7 and can't jump, and isn't an NBA athlete. I don't think he can be much more than a guy on the end of the bench.

He is NOT 6'7".  This was from 2014:

 Measured 6'7.25 without shoes, 6'8.5 with shoes, 265 lbs, with a 7'3 wingspan and 9'0 standing reach at the 2014 USA Junior National Team Mini Camp

From draftexpress.com:

Swanigan is undersized at the power forward and center positions but measured a 7'3 wingspan and a 9'0 standing reach which should help to compensate for his lack of ideal height and athleticism. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/article/2017-nba-draft-combine-measurements-analysis-5927/ ©DraftExpress

We sure could NOT use a guy that averaged 12.5 rebounds per games vs. a fairly tough schedule, could we??:-)))))))))))

Smitty77

Re: Your optimistic off-season that still works under the cap
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2017, 03:22:31 PM »

Offline Moranis

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I'd rather sign Griffin than Hayward and would trade for George.  I know that makes it a little trickier, but I think that is the better option, as I think that is a more complete team.  Obviously the health of Griffin and George only having 1 year left make it more of a gamble, but I just think that team is flat out better and would have a real shot at unseating Cleveland and/or Golden State.
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