IT for Saric?

[Moranis]

This Saric fascination is the weirdest and most inexplicable phenomenon I've ever encountered on this board.

Yes. Is this some part of really extended gag by one or two posters together? He is a really nice bench player or perhaps an average starter if everything breaks right. Most Philly fans are thinking about ways to make him the bench scorer facilitator. He also only put up some big numbers in the last 3rd of the season when literally 25% of the league was tanking. During this same time players like Skal Labassiere, WCS and Buddy Hield put up really big numbers in meaningless game also. Why we would consider giving up a 2x all-star for a role player really has me scratching my head.

Also do people realize he has played professionally for years and is already 23? He obviously isn't old, but he is a full 3 years older than someone like Jaylen Brown. Someone please explain this phenomenon to me.

It's mind-boggling. I read Liberty Ballers occasionally, but I always tend to read it a bit more when the draft rolls around. Saric is universally viewed as a bench player over there. Why Celtics fans are convinced he's some star is baffling.

Is he viewed as a bench player because they have Embiid and Simmons or because they think he is a bench player?  I mean Crowder is starting here, but should be a bench player and is viewed as such by much of this board.  Heck people on here think Thomas should come off the bench.  Saric was a lottery pick when everyone in the draft knew he was staying in Europe for at least 2 years.  That just doesn't happen.  He showed pretty nice potential down the stretch when he got playing time (much the same way Brown did for Boston or Hield for Sacramento, etc.).  He is older because of his Europe time, but he also improved a great deal in his one season and will likely be the rookie of the year.

Winning rookie of the year this year is kind of like winning smartest Kardashian girl. There just was not a lot of contenders. To put this in perspective, He may not have even made an all-rookie team last year because I am pretty sure everyone would have him behind,  Towns, Turner, Porzginas,  Okafor (strong stats his rookie year and not fully exposed). He would be on second team conversation with Jokic and others (he scored a few more but rebounded, passed, stealed, blocked and shot significantly worse than Jokic).

To be honest, I think that is the same reason he is being overrated the same way MCW once was.

With respect to your first question, they aren't thinking he is 50 50 to be a bench player because of who is on their team, but because he has limitations and would seem to be ideal for being a facilitator/scorer off the bench.

Here is a quote from Sixers Sense "As they seek to turn the proverbial corner next season, though, Saric’s minutes are best used outside of the starting rotation, where his defensive deficiencies are minimized and his offensive repertoire is utilized to it’s fullest potential."

"For everything Dario showcased in regards to offensive talent, he often neutralized — in some capacity — with iffy performances on the other end. The Croatian was clearly adjusting to the pace of the NBA game at times, getting outworked by strong isolation threats and outmaneuvered by sly off-ball operators. He lacked the foot speed needed to contain quicker bigs off the bounce, while his athletic tools weren’t always up to par with some of the more imposing presences in the painted area."


https://thesixersense.com/2017/05/23/philadelphia-76ers-dario-saric-defensive-woes-6th-man/

I think that is pretty fair. Also to your point of the Crowder comparison. I agree with you that Crowder is ideally coming off the bench unless he is surrounded by superstars that are a perfect fit for him (if he started on some team with Curry, Klay, Crowder, Durant, Good big he would work fine). Crowder has had his games and moments where he looked like he could be an above starter. For example, March of last season, he averaged nearly 16 points a game 5.5 rebounds and 2 steals on 50% shooting while playing above average defense. On the balance though he would be a great bench player. That is what Saric would be too.

Now Saric for Crowder would not be a fair trade because of contract and age and the potential for a lot more growth from Saric. However, trading him for IT is ridiculous.

I also do think if Saric came out last year that would lead to less bizarre hype for him and a better understanding of his skillset by the posters on this board bizarrely treating him like an 18 year old future all-star. I''ll point out again he is 3 years older than Brown.

Thanks.  That is all fair and those guys would know a lot more about him defensively than any of us would.  It does sound a lot like the argument for bringing Thomas off the bench here.  Defensive liability who would be great as an offense generator in the 2nd unit.  Obviously Thomas is a lot better all around offensive player than Saric is right now, but a similar type argument. 

Again if it was Saric and 3 for Thomas, I think I would do that as that means Boston is adding Saric, Fultz, and Jackson/Tatum to Brown and Smart and that seems like a real nice base for a decade of contending, especially if Brooklyn is horrible again next year and a franchise center joins them (or if Boston then sells off other pieces and tanks itself). 

[celticsclay]

This Saric fascination is the weirdest and most inexplicable phenomenon I've ever encountered on this board.

Yes. Is this some part of really extended gag by one or two posters together? He is a really nice bench player or perhaps an average starter if everything breaks right. Most Philly fans are thinking about ways to make him the bench scorer facilitator. He also only put up some big numbers in the last 3rd of the season when literally 25% of the league was tanking. During this same time players like Skal Labassiere, WCS and Buddy Hield put up really big numbers in meaningless game also. Why we would consider giving up a 2x all-star for a role player really has me scratching my head.

Also do people realize he has played professionally for years and is already 23? He obviously isn't old, but he is a full 3 years older than someone like Jaylen Brown. Someone please explain this phenomenon to me.

It's mind-boggling. I read Liberty Ballers occasionally, but I always tend to read it a bit more when the draft rolls around. Saric is universally viewed as a bench player over there. Why Celtics fans are convinced he's some star is baffling.

Is he viewed as a bench player because they have Embiid and Simmons or because they think he is a bench player?  I mean Crowder is starting here, but should be a bench player and is viewed as such by much of this board.  Heck people on here think Thomas should come off the bench.  Saric was a lottery pick when everyone in the draft knew he was staying in Europe for at least 2 years.  That just doesn't happen.  He showed pretty nice potential down the stretch when he got playing time (much the same way Brown did for Boston or Hield for Sacramento, etc.).  He is older because of his Europe time, but he also improved a great deal in his one season and will likely be the rookie of the year.

Winning rookie of the year this year is kind of like winning smartest Kardashian girl. There just was not a lot of contenders. To put this in perspective, He may not have even made an all-rookie team last year because I am pretty sure everyone would have him behind,  Towns, Turner, Porzginas,  Okafor (strong stats his rookie year and not fully exposed). He would be on second team conversation with Jokic and others (he scored a few more but rebounded, passed, stealed, blocked and shot significantly worse than Jokic).

To be honest, I think that is the same reason he is being overrated the same way MCW once was.

With respect to your first question, they aren't thinking he is 50 50 to be a bench player because of who is on their team, but because he has limitations and would seem to be ideal for being a facilitator/scorer off the bench.

Here is a quote from Sixers Sense "As they seek to turn the proverbial corner next season, though, Saric’s minutes are best used outside of the starting rotation, where his defensive deficiencies are minimized and his offensive repertoire is utilized to it’s fullest potential."

"For everything Dario showcased in regards to offensive talent, he often neutralized — in some capacity — with iffy performances on the other end. The Croatian was clearly adjusting to the pace of the NBA game at times, getting outworked by strong isolation threats and outmaneuvered by sly off-ball operators. He lacked the foot speed needed to contain quicker bigs off the bounce, while his athletic tools weren’t always up to par with some of the more imposing presences in the painted area."


https://thesixersense.com/2017/05/23/philadelphia-76ers-dario-saric-defensive-woes-6th-man/

I think that is pretty fair. Also to your point of the Crowder comparison. I agree with you that Crowder is ideally coming off the bench unless he is surrounded by superstars that are a perfect fit for him (if he started on some team with Curry, Klay, Crowder, Durant, Good big he would work fine). Crowder has had his games and moments where he looked like he could be an above starter. For example, March of last season, he averaged nearly 16 points a game 5.5 rebounds and 2 steals on 50% shooting while playing above average defense. On the balance though he would be a great bench player. That is what Saric would be too.

Now Saric for Crowder would not be a fair trade because of contract and age and the potential for a lot more growth from Saric. However, trading him for IT is ridiculous.

I also do think if Saric came out last year that would lead to less bizarre hype for him and a better understanding of his skillset by the posters on this board bizarrely treating him like an 18 year old future all-star. I''ll point out again he is 3 years older than Brown.

Thanks.  That is all fair and those guys would know a lot more about him defensively than any of us would.  It does sound a lot like the argument for bringing Thomas off the bench here.  Defensive liability who would be great as an offense generator in the 2nd unit. Obviously Thomas is a lot better all around offensive player than Saric is right now, but a similar type argument. 

Again if it was Saric and 3 for Thomas, I think I would do that as that means Boston is adding Saric, Fultz, and Jackson/Tatum to Brown and Smart and that seems like a real nice base for a decade of contending, especially if Brooklyn is horrible again next year and a franchise center joins them (or if Boston then sells off other pieces and tanks itself).

Well that is kind of the rub though isn't it? I understand why some could see Thomas coming off the bench eventually. Right now Thomas is one of the top 5 offensive players in the NBA between ability to create his own shot, create off the dribble and distribute to teammates. If someone is that good at one NBA skill that is as important as that all put together, you start them. End of discussion. Now for the reasons you mentioned Thomas may have a shorter starting career than some other star players. When he is 32 and his offense has slipped from top 5 in NBA to merely very good, then it really makes sense to move him to the bench. By comparison, you a guy like Pierce made sense starting till 34 or 35 because he didn't need to be so great at one thing to offset a weakness. Also to be totally honest I really think most of the calls for benching him now (as opposed to the scenario I laid out) stem from things that really have nothing to do with basketball. If IT was 6ft and performed the same as he does not in every way none of this would exist, but people can't just get past his height. Lillard really is not significantly better than IT at defense at all and is constantly torched. He happens to be 3 inches taller so the people discussing that amplify the message a lot less than they do for IT with his abnormal NBA height.

[tazzmaniac]

IT was just voted one of the top four guards in the NBA. He's in his prime. You don't trade talents lol je that for rotation-level big men.

^^^^^^^This guy gets it.

Typos and all. I guess my phone needed to get a "lol" in there.

IT is a one year rental who is going to be looking for MAX and now he has a serious injury.  He's not worth much at all on the trade market right now.  If Ainge has no intention of resigning IT, Saric would be a good return.   

What amazes me is why people on here would think the Sixers would trade Saric who has 3 years left on his rookie contract for 1 year rentals like AB and IT.  All the Sixers have to do is to wait a year and try to get them in free agency.  Personally I don't see them wanting IT but having some interest in AB.     

^^^^ This guy doesn't get it.

Also trying to argue a horrible deal value-wise is ok if you don't plan on resigning a guy is a pretty dumb argument. If the Warriors don't plan on resigning Steph Curry Justin Holiday would be a nice young piece to add to their roster in a trade....

I didn't argue for the deal.  I said IT as a 1 year rental with a serious injury has little trade value.  I said from the Sixers perspective trading Saric for IT (or AB) makes no sense when they would most likely walk after the season.  You didn't say anything to refute either point. 

Instead you bring up a ridiculous Steph Curry comparison.  Steph is much, much better than IT and he isn't injured.  Justin Holiday is a veteran free agent.  Would you trade Fultz for a probable 1 year rental of PG?  What about Brown?  What about the Brooklyn 18 pick?  I hope you wouldn't unless you had some reasonable assurance that PG would resign here. 

Personally before the injury, I was hoping to see a trade built around IT for Cousins trade.  Maybe IT and Bradley or IT and Crowder for Cousins if we've got a good shot at Hayward. 

[celticsclay]

IT was just voted one of the top four guards in the NBA. He's in his prime. You don't trade talents lol je that for rotation-level big men.

^^^^^^^This guy gets it.

Typos and all. I guess my phone needed to get a "lol" in there.

IT is a one year rental who is going to be looking for MAX and now he has a serious injury.  He's not worth much at all on the trade market right now.  If Ainge has no intention of resigning IT, Saric would be a good return.   

What amazes me is why people on here would think the Sixers would trade Saric who has 3 years left on his rookie contract for 1 year rentals like AB and IT.  All the Sixers have to do is to wait a year and try to get them in free agency.  Personally I don't see them wanting IT but having some interest in AB.     

^^^^ This guy doesn't get it.

Also trying to argue a horrible deal value-wise is ok if you don't plan on resigning a guy is a pretty dumb argument. If the Warriors don't plan on resigning Steph Curry Justin Holiday would be a nice young piece to add to their roster in a trade....

I didn't argue for the deal.  I said IT as a 1 year rental with a serious injury has little trade value.  I said from the Sixers perspective trading Saric for IT (or AB) makes no sense when they would most likely walk after the season.  You didn't say anything to refute either point. 

Instead you bring up a ridiculous Steph Curry comparison.  Steph is much, much better than IT and he isn't injured.  Justin Holiday is a veteran free agent.  Would you trade Fultz for a probable 1 year rental of PG?  What about Brown?  What about the Brooklyn 18 pick?  I hope you wouldn't unless you had some reasonable assurance that PG would resign here. 

Personally before the injury, I was hoping to see a trade built around IT for Cousins trade.  Maybe IT and Bradley or IT and Crowder for Cousins if we've got a good shot at Hayward.

Most reports have IT ready at the start of next season. There are risks with all injuries, but there are no credible things i have seen that say this is going to limit his career or make him a worse player instantly. Thus, acting like he is some massively damaged goods right now when he may not miss a single regular season is almost as relevant as pretending Curry had some serious injury.

[PickNRoll]

Saric and 3 for #1.  Done.

[tazzmaniac]

IT was just voted one of the top four guards in the NBA. He's in his prime. You don't trade talents lol je that for rotation-level big men.

^^^^^^^This guy gets it.

Typos and all. I guess my phone needed to get a "lol" in there.

IT is a one year rental who is going to be looking for MAX and now he has a serious injury.  He's not worth much at all on the trade market right now.  If Ainge has no intention of resigning IT, Saric would be a good return.   

What amazes me is why people on here would think the Sixers would trade Saric who has 3 years left on his rookie contract for 1 year rentals like AB and IT.  All the Sixers have to do is to wait a year and try to get them in free agency.  Personally I don't see them wanting IT but having some interest in AB.     

^^^^ This guy doesn't get it.

Also trying to argue a horrible deal value-wise is ok if you don't plan on resigning a guy is a pretty dumb argument. If the Warriors don't plan on resigning Steph Curry Justin Holiday would be a nice young piece to add to their roster in a trade....

I didn't argue for the deal.  I said IT as a 1 year rental with a serious injury has little trade value.  I said from the Sixers perspective trading Saric for IT (or AB) makes no sense when they would most likely walk after the season.  You didn't say anything to refute either point. 

Instead you bring up a ridiculous Steph Curry comparison.  Steph is much, much better than IT and he isn't injured.  Justin Holiday is a veteran free agent.  Would you trade Fultz for a probable 1 year rental of PG?  What about Brown?  What about the Brooklyn 18 pick?  I hope you wouldn't unless you had some reasonable assurance that PG would resign here. 

Personally before the injury, I was hoping to see a trade built around IT for Cousins trade.  Maybe IT and Bradley or IT and Crowder for Cousins if we've got a good shot at Hayward.

Most reports have IT ready at the start of next season. There are risks with all injuries, but there are no credible things i have seen that say this is going to limit his career or make him a worse player instantly. Thus, acting like he is some massively damaged goods right now when he may not miss a single regular season is almost as relevant as pretending Curry had some serious injury.

We don't know how long he'll be out and we don't know how much if any it will impact his play.  Teams are going to assume the worst until he comes back and shows he's back to normal.  Even if he does come back fully, he'll still be a 1 year rental.  What do you honestly think you could get for IT in a trade?