Help me out with this logic, please

[kozlodoev]

Fultz' tallest measurement to date (2016 Nike Hoop Summit) had him at 6' 4.75" w/shoes.

The only thing that worries me about Fultz's measurements is how much they vary within a single year. While Thomas measures three different shades of 5'10, Fultz has a 6'4.75 and a 6'3.5 within the same summer. I think it's somewhat optimistic to hope that he's 6'5 (although he might be), but I'm hoping that he's at least a solid 6'4.

This means a height difference of 5.5 to 6 inches. Nothing to sneeze at, but not really the same as three quarters of a foot.

I do see tremendous similarities between Fultz and Isaiah.  But the most important similarity is they both have the ability to be elite scoring weapons both on or off the ball.   Thus I see them as potentially a fantastic complementary pair that would be incredibly difficult to defend.

I agree with this as well. Also, I think it's high time to put a legitimate second scorer on the floor that wouldn't shy from taking shots, because the amount of ball-watching this team does when Thomas has the ball is coming back to bite us.

[mmmmm]

Fultz' tallest measurement to date (2016 Nike Hoop Summit) had him at 6' 4.75" w/shoes.

The only thing that worries me about Fultz's measurements is how much they vary within a single year. While Thomas measures three different shades of 5'10, Fultz has a 6'4.75 and a 6'3.5 within the same summer. I think it's somewhat optimistic to hope that he's 6'5 (although he might be), but I'm hoping that he's at least a solid 6'4.

This means a height difference of 5.5 to 6 inches. Nothing to sneeze at, but not really the same as three quarters of a foot.

I do see tremendous similarities between Fultz and Isaiah.  But the most important similarity is they both have the ability to be elite scoring weapons both on or off the ball.   Thus I see them as potentially a fantastic complementary pair that would be incredibly difficult to defend.

I agree with this as well. Also, I think it's high time to put a legitimate second scorer on the floor that wouldn't shy from taking shots, because the amount of ball-watching this team does when Thomas has the ball is coming back to bite us.

On Fultz' rapidly changing numbers in 2016 -- this is probably real.

Some folks have wondered why they never heard of Fultz until recently.  A big reason is that he wasn't on anybody's radar until late in his age 17 year.   He didn't even make varsity his sophomore year that because he was too short.  At the end of his freshman year he was a skinny 5' 9" kid who had played one season on the freshman squad and that was the entirety of his basketball experience.  So he played on the Junior Varsity squad the next year.  He then had a tremendous growth spurt, which I think is reflected in the various measurements last year, crossing the end of his age 17 to the middle of his age 18 years.  He was probably still growing and indeed may have grown a little since.   I concur that he's not likely to show up at 6' 6"!

His last measurements are extremely close to Dwyane Wade's measurements at age 21.

[Rosco917]

I keep reading that Fultz is like IT offensively, except 6'4". Most fans wouldn't be surprised to see Fultz someday put up 25 points and 6 assists.

I'm also reading that IT hurts our offense and that he should be a 6th man.

So, why are we taking Fultz again? Using the #1 pick on a 6th man who would stagnate our offense sounds like a horrible idea.

You're only mentioning the offensive side of the ball. On defense, where Thomas is constantly exploited, Fultz has the size, length, and athleticism to potentially be a plus defender.

It's like comparing Okafor and Horford and asking why one is a 4 time all-star, the other a bench player on a lowly team, yet their stats are fairly similar.

TP

THIS^^^

I just don't understand how some can't see the value of defense. That you're willing to ignore the fact that you have a player that is such a liability on defense, due to his size, that the remaining players on the floor must expend extra energy to cover for him. That he can't be left alone with a majority of NBA players because they easily and simply shoot over him.

I'm talking about winning a ring, not simply being in the playoffs.   

[tarheelsxxiii]

You mean like Lillard? Curry? Harden? Kyrie? Good point. 

Kyrie was hidden on the inbounder (Jerebko) on the last play in game 3. That was interesting.

[mmmmm]

I keep reading that Fultz is like IT offensively, except 6'4". Most fans wouldn't be surprised to see Fultz someday put up 25 points and 6 assists.

I'm also reading that IT hurts our offense and that he should be a 6th man.

So, why are we taking Fultz again? Using the #1 pick on a 6th man who would stagnate our offense sounds like a horrible idea.

You're only mentioning the offensive side of the ball. On defense, where Thomas is constantly exploited, Fultz has the size, length, and athleticism to potentially be a plus defender.

It's like comparing Okafor and Horford and asking why one is a 4 time all-star, the other a bench player on a lowly team, yet their stats are fairly similar.

TP

THIS^^^

I just don't understand how some can't see the value of defense. That you're willing to ignore the fact that you have a player that is such a liability on defense, due to his size, that the remaining players on the floor must expend extra energy to cover for him. That he can't be left alone with a majority of NBA players because they easily and simply shoot over him.

I'm talking about winning a ring, not simply being in the playoffs.

So ... rather than make use of (and indeed add talent around) a 2-time all-star, All-NBA player who put up historic offensive numbers this year while carrying this team into the playoffs (for the 3rd time), and indeed all the way into the ECF, you thing a more sure path to a ring is ... to get rid of him and replace him with a rookie who has the 'potential' to be a great defender?

Look - I love Fultz.  I think he's going to be a great player.  But that thinking just doesn't make sense to me.

What we should be hoping for is for Fultz to mature into a great player that you can put on the floor _next_ to Thomas.  Their offensive games should be extremely compatible and complementary.

The defensive issues on this team aren't really tracking with Thomas anyway.   When you look at our most-used 5-man lineups, Thomas is on almost all of them including both the worst and the best at defense, and everything in between.   The real variances in the defense are in the front court.

[PickNRoll]

Fultz was an average defender at best in college.  He gets some chasedown blocks and he gets in passing lanes due to his length and burst, but he wasn't locking anyone down.  If you watch the games, he wasn't that interested in playing D.  That said, he is 8-9 inches taller and can't be worse on D than IT.  He's very much an offensive player who projects as an average NBA defender IMO.

[kozlodoev]

Fultz was an average defender at best in college.  He gets some chasedown blocks and he gets in passing lanes due to his length and burst, but he wasn't locking anyone down.  If you watch the games, he wasn't that interested in playing D.  That said, he is 8-9 inches taller and can't be worse on D than IT.  He's very much an offensive player who projects as an average NBA defender IMO.

Really, didn't we have this discussion a page ago? This is just false. Fultz is 6 inches taller than Thomas. Perhaps less.

[nickagneta]

Roy starting a click bait thread to get all the "IT is a bench player" posters to all post in one thread....lol!!!

[PickNRoll]

Fultz was an average defender at best in college.  He gets some chasedown blocks and he gets in passing lanes due to his length and burst, but he wasn't locking anyone down.  If you watch the games, he wasn't that interested in playing D.  That said, he is 8-9 inches taller and can't be worse on D than IT.  He's very much an offensive player who projects as an average NBA defender IMO.

Really, didn't we have this discussion a page ago? This is just false. Fultz is 6 inches taller than Thomas. Perhaps less.

I'm arriving late, but Fultz is 6'4" and IT is 5'8".   Scal has suggested many times that IT might be less than 5'8".  Every source has Fultz at at least 6'4".  Hence, 8-9.

edit: Fultz is also 18 and may still grow

[kozlodoev]

On Fultz' rapidly changing numbers in 2016 -- this is probably real.

The Hoop Summit happened in April, and USA Basketball -- in July. So if these are real, this means that Fultz shrank an inch and a quarter over two months. And his arms mysteriously grew in the process, because he only lost .5 inch in standing reach.

There's no way both of these are real.

[yagru]

when it comes to lottery picks you don't draft for need.. you draft for talent and figure it out later.

[kozlodoev]

Fultz was an average defender at best in college.  He gets some chasedown blocks and he gets in passing lanes due to his length and burst, but he wasn't locking anyone down.  If you watch the games, he wasn't that interested in playing D.  That said, he is 8-9 inches taller and can't be worse on D than IT.  He's very much an offensive player who projects as an average NBA defender IMO.

Really, didn't we have this discussion a page ago? This is just false. Fultz is 6 inches taller than Thomas. Perhaps less.

I'm arriving late, but Fultz is 6'4" and IT is 5'8".   Scal has suggested many times that IT might be less than 5'8".  Every source has Fultz at at least 6'4".  Hence, 8-9.

edit: Fultz is also 18 and may still grow

Nope. Thomas is over 5'10. That's pretty well established.

Scal may suggest that the moon is made of Swiss cheese, but I know it from a good source that they take actual, real measurements at the NBA combine -- and that's where came in at 5'0 1/4 in shoes.

Likewise incorrect on Fultz, who has measured at 6'3 1/2 in 2016. Also see my previous post on his curious shrinking case.

[PickNRoll]

Fultz was an average defender at best in college.  He gets some chasedown blocks and he gets in passing lanes due to his length and burst, but he wasn't locking anyone down.  If you watch the games, he wasn't that interested in playing D.  That said, he is 8-9 inches taller and can't be worse on D than IT.  He's very much an offensive player who projects as an average NBA defender IMO.

Really, didn't we have this discussion a page ago? This is just false. Fultz is 6 inches taller than Thomas. Perhaps less.

I'm arriving late, but Fultz is 6'4" and IT is 5'8".   Scal has suggested many times that IT might be less than 5'8".  Every source has Fultz at at least 6'4".  Hence, 8-9.

edit: Fultz is also 18 and may still grow

Nope. Thomas is over 5'10. That's pretty well established.

Scal may suggest that the moon is made of Swiss cheese, but I know it from a good source that they take actual, real measurements at the NBA combine -- and that's where came in at 5.'0 1/4 in shoes.

Likewise incorrect on Fultz, who has measured at 6'3 1/2 in 2016. Also see my previous post on his curious shrinking case.

Well, I didn't personally take a tape measure to either of them, so I'm a slave to ESPN, DraftExpress, the Washington Huskies, and every other public source that claims Fultz is now 6'4".  I don't see how one measurement at USA 2016 trumps every other measurement.

Even if it's 6 inches, my point stands.  6 inches might as well be 3 miles as an NBA defender.

[kozlodoev]

Well, I didn't personally take a tape measure to either of them, so I'm a slave to ESPN, DraftExpress, the Washington Huskies, and every other public source that claims Fultz is now 6'4".  I don't see how one measurement at USA 2016 trumps every other measurement.

Even if it's 6 inches, my point stands.  6 inches might as well be 3 miles as an NBA defender.

Sure. Six inches is a lot, but we've now crept to a 9 inch estimate for something that might be really closer to 5 (Thomas has measured no shorter than 5'10.25 and as tall as 5'11). That's urban legend territory.

DraftExpress list three actual measurements for Fultz; note that measurements are different from a number the Huskies decided to put in a media guide. These are, in order of occurrence: 6'4, 6'4.75, and 6'3.5. Based on this, what his real height is is anyone's guess -- but there's no reason to doubt the 6'3.5 more or less than the 6'4.75.

[PickNRoll]

Well, I didn't personally take a tape measure to either of them, so I'm a slave to ESPN, DraftExpress, the Washington Huskies, and every other public source that claims Fultz is now 6'4".  I don't see how one measurement at USA 2016 trumps every other measurement.

Even if it's 6 inches, my point stands.  6 inches might as well be 3 miles as an NBA defender.

Sure. Six inches is a lot, but we've now crept to a 9 inch estimate for something that might be really closer to 5 (Thomas has measured no shorter than 5'10.25 and as tall as 5'11). That's urban legend territory.

DraftExpress list three actual measurements for Fultz; note that measurements are different from a number the Huskies decided to put in a media guide. These are, in order of occurrence: 6'4, 6'4.75, and 6'3.5. Based on this, what his real height is is anyone's guess -- but there's no reason to doubt the 6'3.5 more or less than the 6'4.75.

I'm not losing sleep over a 1.25 inch disparity (at most).  It's clear that he's an NBA athlete with elite length and a savant when it comes to finishing around the rim.  That's where the 1 inch tends to matter and he's got it all locked up.  No worries at all about his size.  I think he's a good, not great athlete fwiw.

His defense and his drive are the only question marks for me.  He's such a virtuoso scorer that he dropped 23 a game largely settling for pull up jumpers off the bounce.  It's impressive, but he did treat the season like an NBA audition and his team lost a lot.