Jackie Mac Rumor: Ainge offered IT for lottery pick in last years draft

[LilRip]

Everyone seems to think Bradley's the odd man out if we keep Fultz here; I have a sneaking suspicion it's actually IT we don't value as much. His game's not likely to age well and he's got a mega-contract coming up next offseason. As much as I like him I think we'll find a way for him to not be here for it.

I keep wondering about this too.  You just can't ignore the fact that we havent been able to hide IT on defense in the playoffs. I wonder if DA is more realistic about giving a huge contract to IT. 

Does it make more sense to use some of that money between AB and Marcus and roll with AB. Fultz, Smart, and maybe Rozier if he isn't traded as part of a deal for a big.  That all of course depends on Fultz becoming a solid starter within a year. If he does turn out to be the player we think he will be, then I am pretty happy with Fultz, AB, Smart as core guards moving forward.  Gives us way more flexibility

I want to address this narrative because I think it's the byproduct of group-think and lazy media members parroting each other.

Who is going to sign IT to a max contract?

Everyone keeps insisting that IT is going to get a max contract, but what team is indicating they want him this badly?  His last contract was for 27 million over 4 years. 


Literally EVERYONE agrees he's a gifted scorer who's a complete liability on defense...This is exactly what his reputation was the last time he signed a contract three seasons ago and, by the way, the team that signed him to that contract traded him for a late first round pick within half a season of signing him. 

Nobody wanted him for peanuts three years ago when he was essentially the same exact player... Even his staunchest fans are concerned about signing him to a max deal so what GM in the NBA is going to sign Isaiah to the max?   

The last time Isaiah was a free agent people were SHOCKED that 27 million over four years was the best deal he could get.  He was coming off a season where he scored 20 points a game, averaged 6 assists, and shot .35% from three.

I think there's a very good chance that his open market value is MUCH less than what people keep insisting it is.  If Danny's smart he'll Belichick this negotiation and wait for the market to set the terms of the deal.

Dallas seems like a sure bet to throw crazy money at IT.

When has Dallas ever thrown crazy money at a pointguard?

They wouldn't even pay Steve Nash the Max in his PRIME.

Yeah, that was the final straw between Don Nelson and Cuban.
Nelson was right of course.  Interesting case study.

Steve Nash and IT: Both players meant similar things to their franchise.  Both players, it seems are underappreciated.   IT turned the Celtics into contenders, yet people keep thinking he should be traded for a mid-lottery player and a bag of cheeseburgers!

That is interesting. Both are offensively talented, defensively deficient players. I wonder who was better?

I'm biased towards Nash as he practically birthed some people's careers (Amare is a great example) but it is interesting. Plus, he won a couple of MVPs.

[Jvalin]

1) I don't think we can get fair market value for IT, but I would accept a bad trade because the alternative is he walks July , 2018.
2) I accept that IT is the best player on the team, today.
3) I get that the offense runs through IT and he is our only consistent scorer.
4) I believe that we will sign Hayward, who is a legit 20+ scorer so he provides reliable offense.
5) I believe that after two full nba seasons Brown will be ready to be relied on as a consistent scoring threat.
6) I believe  that after a full nba season Fultz will be ready to be relied on as a consistent scoring threat.
7) Today we get the bulk of our offense from IT, Bradley and Crowder. I only want to move IT so we would keep Bradley and Crowder, only they would move to the bench giving us a strong bench.
So we replace IT's offense with Hayward, Fultz, and Brown.  And keep Bradley and Crowder so we keep their offense.
9) we suffer no drop in offense letting IT walk and we get a defensive boost because we don't have to compensate for IT's horrid D.
10) if we can get a solid rotational player for him I'll take it because I do not believe IT will be a celtic after his contact is up.
11) of course if we can get a fair trade and a good player, preferably a big man (IT to the Kincks for Porzingis) that would be ideal.

When you say rotational player you mean you would be willing to trade him for a solid bench guy or something? Can you give an example of what exactly you have in mind?

If we draft Fultz and sign Hayward as a FA, I see no need to keep IT especially at the super max.  So either he walks or is traded. Something is better than nothing, so yes I would take a bench player who can give us 20 good minutes a night.  I would prefer to get a quality starter, but if we're going to let him walk then we might as well pick up something. I'm sure a lot of people will disagree today, but come this time next year, after a year of watching Fultz, I bet a lot of people will be ready to rethink that super max contact.

Again, any specific ideas in mind? Cause I have to admit, as much as I agree with you that we should trade him, I wouldn't want us to just dump him no matter the value we take back. I mean, the guy has given his heart and saul for this team. He's been through a lot of staff recently on and off the court. It wouldn't feel right to get rid of him like that. In all honesty, if that's the case I'd rather keep him for a year and then let him walk.

Not to mention, shipping off Thomas would most likely hurt our chances of landing Hayward.

[Tr1boy]

you guys think it was for Hield or Murray?

had to have been one of these two

[Sketch5]

you guys think it was for Hield or Murray?

had to have been one of these two

No it was for Brown. They were going to use picks 4-7 to pick him up, and use the 3rd pick to go after Butler. That was what Chi wanted so they could draft Dunn. Butler would have been the pairing with Horford for the run at KD. Which would have made it a stronger case.

But when no one bit they went with Brown at 3.

[Tr1boy]

you guys think it was for Hield or Murray?

had to have been one of these two

No it was for Brown. They were going to use picks 4-7 to pick him up, and use the 3rd pick to go after Butler. That was what Chi wanted so they could draft Dunn. Butler would have been the pairing with Horford for the run at KD. Which would have made it a stronger case.

But when no one bit they went with Brown at 3.

can't see that

why not just trade for Butler then?

Can't see Danny placing Brown at higher importance than Butler  (in that situation)

[LilRip]

you guys think it was for Hield or Murray?

had to have been one of these two

No it was for Brown. They were going to use picks 4-7 to pick him up, and use the 3rd pick to go after Butler. That was what Chi wanted so they could draft Dunn. Butler would have been the pairing with Horford for the run at KD. Which would have made it a stronger case.

But when no one bit they went with Brown at 3.

can't see that

why not just trade for Butler then?

Can't see Danny placing Brown at higher importance than Butler  (in that situation)

Maybe salary implications?

If they traded for Butler using the 3rd pick but still had IT, maybe they couldn't sign two max FAs.

[nickagneta]

Still believe the only team Ainge would have dealt IT for at last year's draft was to Philly for Simmons. Simmons fits the Stevens passing system of running the offense through a big man and is a great rebounder. Remember, Horford wasn't a done deal yet. If Ainge could have gotten Simmons, he would fit Danny's building timeline better and maybe Danny saves his cap space for another year.

IT also makes sense for Philly who already had three centers and knew Saric was coming over. IT would have been a great fit next to Embiid, Saric, and Covington.

But Philly said no or countered with something Danny didn't want to do or Danny was asking for too much like Nerlens and Simmons.

Its the only thing that makes sense to me

[tazzmaniac]

Still believe the only team Ainge would have dealt IT for at last year's draft was to Philly for Simmons. Simmons fits the Stevens passing system of running the offense through a big man and is a great rebounder. Remember, Horford wasn't a done deal yet. If Ainge could have gotten Simmons, he would fit Danny's building timeline better and maybe Danny saves his cap space for another year.

IT also makes sense for Philly who already had three centers and knew Saric was coming over. IT would have been a great fit next to Embiid, Saric, and Covington.

But Philly said no or countered with something Danny didn't want to do or Danny was asking for too much like Nerlens and Simmons.

Its the only thing that makes sense to me

Colangelo would have laughed his head off if Ainge made an IT for Simmons offer.  He would have still laughed if it was IT and the 3rd pick for Simmons.  Simmons was a potential franchise rookie and by far the best prospect in that draft.  IT doesn't have anywhere near that kind of value.

Embiid and Saric hadn't played yet so the Sixers didn't have any idea how good they'd be and wouldn't have been looking for players to fit with them.  In any case, IT wouldn't be a good fit for the Sixers.  They're looking for defense, pace and space and coach Brown is a defensive coach. 

Ainge trying to trade IT makes perfect sense.  He understands value.  IT on his current contract is good value.  IT on a MAX contract is not.  Trying to trade IT with 2 years on his contract makes sense since he'd have a lot less value as a 1 year rental.  Unfortunately with the injury IT's trade value is practically nil. 

[Moranis]

Everyone seems to think Bradley's the odd man out if we keep Fultz here; I have a sneaking suspicion it's actually IT we don't value as much. His game's not likely to age well and he's got a mega-contract coming up next offseason. As much as I like him I think we'll find a way for him to not be here for it.

I keep wondering about this too.  You just can't ignore the fact that we havent been able to hide IT on defense in the playoffs. I wonder if DA is more realistic about giving a huge contract to IT. 

Does it make more sense to use some of that money between AB and Marcus and roll with AB. Fultz, Smart, and maybe Rozier if he isn't traded as part of a deal for a big.  That all of course depends on Fultz becoming a solid starter within a year. If he does turn out to be the player we think he will be, then I am pretty happy with Fultz, AB, Smart as core guards moving forward.  Gives us way more flexibility

I want to address this narrative because I think it's the byproduct of group-think and lazy media members parroting each other.

Who is going to sign IT to a max contract?

Everyone keeps insisting that IT is going to get a max contract, but what team is indicating they want him this badly?  His last contract was for 27 million over 4 years. 


Literally EVERYONE agrees he's a gifted scorer who's a complete liability on defense...This is exactly what his reputation was the last time he signed a contract three seasons ago and, by the way, the team that signed him to that contract traded him for a late first round pick within half a season of signing him. 

Nobody wanted him for peanuts three years ago when he was essentially the same exact player... Even his staunchest fans are concerned about signing him to a max deal so what GM in the NBA is going to sign Isaiah to the max?   

The last time Isaiah was a free agent people were SHOCKED that 27 million over four years was the best deal he could get.  He was coming off a season where he scored 20 points a game, averaged 6 assists, and shot .35% from three.

I think there's a very good chance that his open market value is MUCH less than what people keep insisting it is.  If Danny's smart he'll Belichick this negotiation and wait for the market to set the terms of the deal.

Dallas seems like a sure bet to throw crazy money at IT.

When has Dallas ever thrown crazy money at a pointguard?

They wouldn't even pay Steve Nash the Max in his PRIME.

Yeah, that was the final straw between Don Nelson and Cuban.
Nelson was right of course.  Interesting case study.

Steve Nash and IT: Both players meant similar things to their franchise.  Both players, it seems are underappreciated.   IT turned the Celtics into contenders, yet people keep thinking he should be traded for a mid-lottery player and a bag of cheeseburgers!

That is interesting. Both are offensively talented, defensively deficient players. I wonder who was better?

I'm biased towards Nash as he practically birthed some people's careers (Amare is a great example) but it is interesting. Plus, he won a couple of MVPs.

Dallas isn't going to have max cap room if they resign Noel this summer anyway

[Tr1boy]

http://www1.play.it/audio/toucher-rich/

Go to the Lonzo Ball delines to workout part (yesterday)

Danny denies there is any to IT4 trade rumors

Though not sure if I can believe sneaky Danny. Plus Horford was signed after the draft...

[LatterDayCelticsfan]

Maybe he liked Buddy Hield.  IMO we could have gotten the 6th pick 4 Crowder easily. I actually posted that trade on here and added a Pelicans future 1st...everyone hated it lol.

How many people actually like Buddy Hield?

[keevsnick]

Maybe Ainge was trying to turn Isaiah into a lotto pick to spin off for Butler? That way he can acquire Butler and still get the guy (Brown) who he really liked in the draft. Go into free agency and sell Durant/Horford on teaming up with Butler. Don't know if that's more attractive than Isaiah or not, but possible.

[loco_91]

Maybe he liked Buddy Hield.  IMO we could have gotten the 6th pick 4 Crowder easily. I actually posted that trade on here and added a Pelicans future 1st...everyone hated it lol.

How many people actually like Buddy Hield?

The kings + nobody else

[Ilikesports17]

Still believe the only team Ainge would have dealt IT for at last year's draft was to Philly for Simmons. Simmons fits the Stevens passing system of running the offense through a big man and is a great rebounder. Remember, Horford wasn't a done deal yet. If Ainge could have gotten Simmons, he would fit Danny's building timeline better and maybe Danny saves his cap space for another year.

IT also makes sense for Philly who already had three centers and knew Saric was coming over. IT would have been a great fit next to Embiid, Saric, and Covington.

But Philly said no or countered with something Danny didn't want to do or Danny was asking for too much like Nerlens and Simmons.

Its the only thing that makes sense to me

considering the fact that plan A was obviously pursuing Durant, I can only imagne that Ainge would offer up Thomas in a trade where we obviously win. Thus the only guy he could have offered him for is Simmons and I suppose Ingram if he really fell in love with Ingram.

[chilidawg]

Maybe he liked Buddy Hield.  IMO we could have gotten the 6th pick 4 Crowder easily. I actually posted that trade on here and added a Pelicans future 1st...everyone hated it lol.

How many people actually like Buddy Hield?

The kings + nobody else

The Kings and FCO