Author Topic: Jackie Mac Rumor: Ainge offered IT for lottery pick in last years draft  (Read 18065 times)

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Offline Tr1boy

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If true, it's another example of how for Danny it's better to be lucky than good. 

I can't really imagine the team trading it's only true star for a single draft pick though.

You dont think danny will try again with this upcoming draft do you  ;D

Offline Jvalin

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Absolutely love this rumor!! Advocating for months now we should move on from IT. No matter what we do, the Cavs and the Warriors are on another level. We have to take a small step back and build through the draft. Fultz is the perfect replacement for IT.

Unfortunately, it seems like the market value for IT isn't particularly high. The way I see it, IT for Myles Turner is as good of a return as we can expect. Another idea would be IT + Boston 2018 for Saric and the Sacramento 2019 unprotected first. Or we could always move him for a lottery pick on draft night, the way Jackie Mac reported we tried to do last year.

Offline Who

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I can believe that and I fully support the thinking behind it.

I hope Ainge is keeping his mind open about doing so again this year.

Offline Ed Hollison

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Danny is smart. When necessary, he has no problem being coldhearted. Recall the love-fest around Rondo in the offseason prior to his being traded. Ainge and the whole C's brass billing Rondo as a building block for the future, but Ainge recognized he was a flawed superstar and was content to move him, once it became clear he couldn't obtain a secondary star like Kevin Love.

IT is a better player than Rondo ever was, but it’s entirely possible that Ainge’s thought process is the same. This current series could be a smack of reality that we’re still significantly far off from competing with the Cavs, let alone the Warriors. So Ainge may consider trading away players who have peaked, like IT, in favor of solid assets for the future. That is, invest in players like Fultz and Brown, but keep some veterans around such that the team continues to make the playoffs, maintains a solid basketball culture, and stays attractive for free agents.

Free agency complicates this whole thing and that’s why I don’t think IT will ever be traded. Can you imagine trading IT on draft night for a draft pick, and then trying to sell Gordon Hayward on signing with the Celtics a month later? The most likely thing that happens this offseason is that Ainge retains IT, drafts Fultz, and moves a couple guys like Bradley and Crowder to freely go after Hayward. Then a year later, when IT is a free agent and you’ve seen a year’s worth of what Fultz can do, you can just decide from there. In the end I think IT walks in a year’s time, but who knows.
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Offline blink

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Everyone seems to think Bradley's the odd man out if we keep Fultz here; I have a sneaking suspicion it's actually IT we don't value as much. His game's not likely to age well and he's got a mega-contract coming up next offseason. As much as I like him I think we'll find a way for him to not be here for it.

I keep wondering about this too.  You just can't ignore the fact that we havent been able to hide IT on defense in the playoffs.  I wonder if DA is more realistic about giving a huge contract to IT. 

Does it make more sense to use some of that money between AB and Marcus and roll with AB. Fultz, Smart, and maybe Rozier if he isn't traded as part of a deal for a big.  That all of course depends on Fultz becoming a solid starter within a year. If he does turn out to be the player we think he will be, then I am pretty happy with Fultz, AB, Smart as core guards moving forward.  Gives us way more flexibility


Offline PhoSita

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I could see it if they were trying to trade for a top 5 selection (i.e. Simmons, Ingram, Murray, etc).


Remember, though, that at this time last year the Celts were coming off a 1st round exit, and Isaiah was a fringe All-Star selection.


Given the team signing Horford to a long term deal, Isaiah making himself an MVP candidate, and the team going on a run to the ECF, one would have to assume the asking price for Isaiah is a lot higher than a lottery pick, even one in the top 5.
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Offline NHCelticsFan

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I could see it if they were trying to trade for a top 5 selection (i.e. Simmons, Ingram, Murray, etc).


Remember, though, that at this time last year the Celts were coming off a 1st round exit, and Isaiah was a fringe All-Star selection.


Given the team signing Horford to a long term deal, Isaiah making himself an MVP candidate, and the team going on a run to the ECF, one would have to assume the asking price for Isaiah is a lot higher than a lottery pick, even one in the top 5.

Fair points, but IT is also on the last year of his deal and it is well known that he is looking for the Brinks truck.  Teams might not give up a lot for him knowing he will expect to get paid.

Offline Future Celtics Owner

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Everyone seems to think Bradley's the odd man out if we keep Fultz here; I have a sneaking suspicion it's actually IT we don't value as much. His game's not likely to age well and he's got a mega-contract coming up next offseason. As much as I like him I think we'll find a way for him to not be here for it.

I keep wondering about this too.  You just can't ignore the fact that we havent been able to hide IT on defense in the playoffs.  I wonder if DA is more realistic about giving a huge contract to IT. 

Does it make more sense to use some of that money between AB and Marcus and roll with AB. Fultz, Smart, and maybe Rozier if he isn't traded as part of a deal for a big.  That all of course depends on Fultz becoming a solid starter within a year. If he does turn out to be the player we think he will be, then I am pretty happy with Fultz, AB, Smart as core guards moving forward.  Gives us way more flexibility
I agree with your opinion on IT, especially with Fultz not hurting us defensively. Actually, Fultz should be pretty dang good defensively he's longer than Marcus Smart and quicker.

I'd rather see us trade Marcus than Rozier. I hate the feeling a year before RFA/UFA because guys walk and we get nothing in return. They say propose trades that you think the other team will accept: Marcus Smart 4 Jahlil Okafor. I say it all the time bc I am pretty dam sure it would be accepted by them. Smart may command $14 million plus....I just don't see the rationale in signing him when we just drafted Fultz and Jaylen( and we have Rozier). I'd rather look for a Tony Allen type guy on the cheap.

Offline PhoSita

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Everyone seems to think Bradley's the odd man out if we keep Fultz here; I have a sneaking suspicion it's actually IT we don't value as much. His game's not likely to age well and he's got a mega-contract coming up next offseason. As much as I like him I think we'll find a way for him to not be here for it.


What evidence do we really have to support the idea that IT won't age well?


As of right now he has played 441 career regular season games and 24 career playoff games.  He has played a total of 14,056 minutes.

At the start of his next deal, he will be entering his 8th season in the league, a season during which he will turn 30 years old.


Tony Parker, by comparison, was a very good starting point guard through his 13th season.  Through his 13th season + playoffs (2014), he had played approximately 38,000 minutes.

Now, Tony Parker is bigger than Isaiah, but not by a lot, and he seems to me to be a pretty good comparison in terms of a guy who relied on speed as a younger guy but who increasingly relied on pull-up jumpers and guile as he got older.


There's reason to believe Isaiah could age even better than Tony Parker, given that he is a significantly better outside shooter, and the spacing around him should only get better as he ages.


Even if Isaiah looks like 31 or 32 year old Tony Parker by the end of his next deal (i.e. 15-17 ppg on decent shooting splits in about 30 mpg), that would be well worth the overpayment if he gives the Celts a couple more seasons in the low to mid 20s or higher in terms of scoring, along with steadily improving decisionmaking and outside shooting.


Bottom line, there are not many examples in the history of the NBA of guys well under 6 feet tall playing at a high level through their 35th birthday.  However, there also have been very few players under 6 feet tall who have been able to play at the level Isaiah is at right now. 

Furthermore, the game has changed a great deal to where guard who can shoot and run the pick and roll can stay relevant for much longer.  With the spacing in today's game and the way the rules are called in favor of ballhandlers, I think we could see many of these star point guards playing into their late 30s.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 02:31:43 PM by PhoSita »
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Offline kenmaine

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How about building a decent team around IT?
How many years will Ainge just keep kicking the can down the road to "build for the future"? He's accumulated all these "chips"- it's time to cash them in. Draft picks are iffy-  Jaylen Brown was the third pick in the draft and hasn't really shown that much- he needs to develop some offensive moves and use whatever LeBron uses to bulk up ;).
Imagine if Red Auerbach had all the draft choices and players the C's have right now. He'd make a couple of moves and have a championship level team by next year! This "process" crap is frustrating. IT, AB, and Horford are all in their primes- such a waste to not go out and get the two or three pieces needed to contend now.
To anyone who thinks you can't win a title with IT.  You're right- IF he has only a couple of good players (AB and Horford) to pass the ball to, and no one to rebound.

Offline Tr1boy

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How about building a decent team around IT?
How many years will Ainge just keep kicking the can down the road to "build for the future"? He's accumulated all these "chips"- it's time to cash them in. Draft picks are iffy-  Jaylen Brown was the third pick in the draft and hasn't really shown that much- he needs to develop some offensive moves and use whatever LeBron uses to bulk up ;).
Imagine if Red Auerbach had all the draft choices and players the C's have right now. He'd make a couple of moves and have a championship level team by next year! This "process" crap is frustrating. IT, AB, and Horford are all in their primes- such a waste to not go out and get the two or three pieces needed to contend now.
To anyone who thinks you can't win a title with IT.  You're right- IF he has only a couple of good players (AB and Horford) to pass the ball to, and no one to rebound.

You are seeing the max outcome with IT4 leading this Celtics squad... Cant compete with cavs, gsw, spurs

Offline blink

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Absolutely love this rumor!! Advocating for months now we should move on from IT. No matter what we do, the Cavs and the Warriors are on another level. We have to take a small step back and build through the draft. Fultz is the perfect replacement for IT.

Unfortunately, it seems like the market value for IT isn't particularly high. The way I see it, IT for Myles Turner is as good of a return as we can expect. Another idea would be IT + Boston 2018 for Saric and the Sacramento 2019 unprotected first. Or we could always move him for a lottery pick on draft night, the way Jackie Mac reported we tried to do last year.

I know most here would probably popo it, but getting a cost controlled big that can shoot like Turner wouldn't be bad if we decided we weren't going to pay IT.  Instantly fill one of our biggest holes with a young cost controlled player.  If Fultz turns out great, having an excellent rookie year I could see this happening the following year.

Fultz/Smart
AB / Smart
Hayward/  Brown
Horford / Crowder
Turner / KO(if possible)

I think that team might be a better playoff team than what we have now.

Offline 86MaxwellSmart

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Danny is smart. When necessary, he has no problem being coldhearted. Recall the love-fest around Rondo in the offseason prior to his being traded. Ainge and the whole C's brass billing Rondo as a building block for the future, but Ainge recognized he was a flawed superstar and was content to move him, once it became clear he couldn't obtain a secondary star like Kevin Love.

IT is a better player than Rondo ever was, but it’s entirely possible that Ainge’s thought process is the same. This current series could be a smack of reality that we’re still significantly far off from competing with the Cavs, let alone the Warriors. So Ainge may consider trading away players who have peaked, like IT, in favor of solid assets for the future. That is, invest in players like Fultz and Brown, but keep some veterans around such that the team continues to make the playoffs, maintains a solid basketball culture, and stays attractive for free agents.

Free agency complicates this whole thing and that’s why I don’t think IT will ever be traded. Can you imagine trading IT on draft night for a draft pick, and then trying to sell Gordon Hayward on signing with the Celtics a month later? The most likely thing that happens this offseason is that Ainge retains IT, drafts Fultz, and moves a couple guys like Bradley and Crowder to freely go after Hayward. Then a year later, when IT is a free agent and you’ve seen a year’s worth of what Fultz can do, you can just decide from there. In the end I think IT walks in a year’s time, but who knows.

Huh-? Except for pre-ACL Rondo...and the first 2 games of this year's First Round Series--Which Rondo Dominated IT
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Offline bdm860

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Okay, having just listened to the actual podcast, I think that tweet comes off a little out of context.

http://bobryanbostonpodcast.libsyn.com/episode-8-jackie-macmullan

Convo starts around 13:55.

Quote
I can tell you this, before the draft last year, last year.  Danny was trying to get 2 picks, not just Jaylen Brown.  He was trying to get 2 picks.  He was on the phone with everyone from coast to coast, and he was offering everybody, and that includes Marcus Smart and Isaiah Thomas and anything else they needed to get where he wanted to go.  There were no untouchables on that team last year.

To me, that sounds quite different than Danny was shopping Isaiah for a pick.  Sounds more like Danny was trying to get a pick and offered a variety of packages, which for all we know went something like:

We'll trade you Brooklyn '17 for Ben Simmons.
We'll trade you Brooklyn '17 and Marcus Smart for Ben Simmons
We'll trade you Brooklyn '17 and Brooklyn '18 for Ben Simmons
We'll trade you Isaiah Thomas for Ben Simmons and your '17 1st.

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Offline CFAN38

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Everyone seems to think Bradley's the odd man out if we keep Fultz here; I have a sneaking suspicion it's actually IT we don't value as much. His game's not likely to age well and he's got a mega-contract coming up next offseason. As much as I like him I think we'll find a way for him to not be here for it.


I have been figuring that Ab is the odd man out and that he will be moved to open up minutes for Fultz and Brown and cap space for Hayward. If Hayward is a non option then Ab for Melo is a short sited deal that wouldn't hurt the team long term.

However if DA was willing to move IT last year I suspect he is still willing to move him. Looking at this roster in the most positive of lights it is possible see a post lebron future where Fultz, Brown, Smart, and Zizic form a 1,2,3 and 5 made starting group at least on pare with the current wizards. However this group will have the benefit of an amazing bench.

The big question is going to be how and if DA brings this roster to that point. IT,Ab, Crowder and KO are young enough to all still be viable role players in the post lebron years (assuming he can stay elite 3-4 more years.) IT isnt likely to age well but if he becomes willing to except a Jason Terry role could still be a great bench player into his 30s. Horford may find himself always running into the Lebron wall. However he is so skilled he may age in the Duncan mold. Rozier is the right age to grow with this core I just cant see him sticking around with Fultz likely to be drafted. He has earned 20+ mpg and I cant see that happening without a major roster shake up.

Where DA and BS are going to have a hard time is dealing with established 50+ win starters getting beat out by their younger understudies.   

How is Crowder going to handle it when Brown fills out and develops his game and over takes him as a starter?

What happens the first close game where BS goes with Fultz and Smart over IT to finish a close game?

Time will tell but at least as a fan its a great problem to see you team with. 
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