Author Topic: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz  (Read 2429 times)

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Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 11:51:52 AM »

Offline chambers

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 12:23:14 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2017, 12:26:47 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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In terms of 1 on 1 skills.. Tatum might have a tiny edge..due to ability to separate away from his man , turn the corner

Fultz from what I have seen may have trouble losing his man, turning the corner against a very good/explosive defender

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2017, 12:33:36 PM »

Offline esel1000

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

To be fair KAT was on a stacked team with WCS, the Harrison twins, and Dakari Johnson... all NBA caliber players. Fultz was on a team with literal nobodies... he had to do everything.

You have to focus less on record and more on individual skills with Fultz. Chambers is spot on... his skills at 18 are unbelievably polished. The 7 ft wingspan is impressive as well. He has the tools to be a 2 way monster, and is already elite offensively.

You have to take Fultz if you pick #1...

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2017, 12:35:36 PM »

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

Him not having a lot of competition through out the season does bother me a little, BUT.

This kid was also on JV his sophomore year. With in three years he's gone from a good player to being talked about as the #1 with three other really good players.

Thats kinda impressive, and shows hard work. And he JUST turned 19.

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2017, 12:37:30 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Who cares, Ainge won't take anyone but Fultz.

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2017, 12:41:25 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

Perspective:  Fultz had to play against good teams like Arizona and UCLA.   Ball, conversely, got to play against crap teams like Washington ...

The good GMs don't really give that much credence to NCAA team performance.  NCAA team performance tends to correlate most with how many talented upperclassmen the coach can convince to stay around.  It has far less to do with how individually talented a given freshman player is.

History is littered with March Madness superstars who ended up doing nothing in the NBA.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2017, 12:47:51 PM »

Offline max215

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-Dick Vitale has said Tatum should go #1
-CBS has Celtics picking Tatum at #1 due to the Celtics already having IT4, AB etc.

-- why is Tatum considered to be a better prospect than Fultz?

He's not.
Isaiah, you were lightning in a bottle.

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Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2017, 12:50:08 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

Perspective:  Fultz had to play against good teams like Arizona and UCLA.   Ball, conversely, got to play against crap teams like Washington ...

The good GMs don't really give that much credence to NCAA team performance.  NCAA team performance tends to correlate most with how many talented upperclassmen the coach can convince to stay around.  It has far less to do with how individually talented a given freshman player is.

History is littered with March Madness superstars who ended up doing nothing in the NBA.

I disagree on some of the things you are saying

Ideally if the prospect plays to their capabilities and the team wins/dominates... You got the undisputed top prospect

This is what happened with Lebron... He won 3-4 consecutive hs titles + stats... Teams knew he was for real

If James got the stats but no hs titles.. maybe he doesnt go 1 or cavs may think to trade the pick

And this is what is going on with Fultz... If it was absolute/he was the next great... There would be zero talks about trading him for Butler, pg13 but the conversation exist



Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2017, 12:51:22 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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-Dick Vitale has said Tatum should go #1
-CBS has Celtics picking Tatum at #1 due to the Celtics already having IT4, AB etc.

-- why is Tatum considered to be a better prospect than Fultz?

He's not.

So Tatum doesnt do anything better. Except is taller... That is what you are saying

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 01:45:36 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

Perspective:  Fultz had to play against good teams like Arizona and UCLA.   Ball, conversely, got to play against crap teams like Washington ...

The good GMs don't really give that much credence to NCAA team performance.  NCAA team performance tends to correlate most with how many talented upperclassmen the coach can convince to stay around.  It has far less to do with how individually talented a given freshman player is.

History is littered with March Madness superstars who ended up doing nothing in the NBA.

I disagree on some of the things you are saying

Ideally if the prospect plays to their capabilities and the team wins/dominates... You got the undisputed top prospect

This is what happened with Lebron... He won 3-4 consecutive hs titles + stats... Teams knew he was for real

If James got the stats but no hs titles.. maybe he doesnt go 1 or cavs may think to trade the pick

And this is what is going on with Fultz... If it was absolute/he was the next great... There would be zero talks about trading him for Butler, pg13 but the conversation exist

No.  Basketball is a team game.   Even Lebron did not win titles until he got super talented help.  Neither did MJ.

(Also, Lebron was drafted out of high school so he never won a single NCAA game.  So I'm not sure why you are even talking about him.)

Markelle is great, but no one is claiming he is the next Larry Bird.   He declared early for Washington expecting to play with Marquis Chriss and Dejounte Murray.  Instead, those guys declared for the NBA and Markell was basically playing with the equivalent of a junior varsity team around him.

If you really think those team results are at all any reflection of his individual talent then you are just being willfully superficial about the situation.   Good GMs do not look at things so superficially.  You have to look at the player in detail as an individual and project how HE is going to be in the NBA over the next 4 - 10 years.   You aren't drafting his college teammates.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 01:55:18 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

Perspective:  Fultz had to play against good teams like Arizona and UCLA.   Ball, conversely, got to play against crap teams like Washington ...

The good GMs don't really give that much credence to NCAA team performance.  NCAA team performance tends to correlate most with how many talented upperclassmen the coach can convince to stay around.  It has far less to do with how individually talented a given freshman player is.

History is littered with March Madness superstars who ended up doing nothing in the NBA.

I disagree on some of the things you are saying

Ideally if the prospect plays to their capabilities and the team wins/dominates... You got the undisputed top prospect

This is what happened with Lebron... He won 3-4 consecutive hs titles + stats... Teams knew he was for real

If James got the stats but no hs titles.. maybe he doesnt go 1 or cavs may think to trade the pick

And this is what is going on with Fultz... If it was absolute/he was the next great... There would be zero talks about trading him for Butler, pg13 but the conversation exist

No.  Basketball is a team game.   Even Lebron did not win titles until he got super talented help.  Neither did MJ.

(Also, Lebron was drafted out of high school so he never won a single NCAA game.  So I'm not sure why you are even talking about him.)

Markelle is great, but no one is claiming he is the next Larry Bird.   He declared early for Washington expecting to play with Marquis Chriss and Dejounte Murray.  Instead, those guys declared for the NBA and Markell was basically playing with the equivalent of a junior varsity team around him.

If you really think those team results are at all any reflection of his individual talent then you are just being willfully superficial about the situation.   Good GMs do not look at things so superficially.  You have to look at the player in detail as an individual and project how HE is going to be in the NBA over the next 4 - 10 years.   You aren't drafting his college teammates.

Bc he won 3-4 hs championships .. I dont think any other high schoolers did that before

How do you think he was considered the next great without even playing college ball

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 01:57:52 PM »

Offline triboy16f

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they don't know what they're talking about.

If Danny Ainge took Tatum over Fultz me and thousands of other Celtics fans would hunt him down with pitchforks and fire and make him pay.
In other words, there is zero chance that Ainge drafts anyone over Fultz in this draft, letalone drafting Tatum over Fultz.

CBS and Vitale are just out of touch.

I agree.... But then again when you look at plays like below... You pause for a sec... If Tatum was just a little more aggressive he would of had a better freshman year

https://youtu.be/z8fXpxx-aCY

Fultz would still be way ahead of Tatum because of his 3 point shooting and pick and roll ability. They are the 2 most important skills for an NBA guard to master and Fultz has mastered BOTH at age 18. Then we talk about another critical part of his game that he has mastered-the mid range/ pull up game.

Fultz has potential as a top 5 scorer in the NBA.
Chris Mannix (i think it was) said on toucher and rich that most NBA GMs see Fultz as the clear #1 pick in his own tier because of how advanced/complete his moves are and his understanding in the pick and roll.

What about defense?
What about vs stiff competition?

You make it sound like Fultz did this against superior talent...and that was not the case (half the time).  Look at the game vs Ball...it was pretty even. Some say Ball played better

I like Fultz but its not like he had a karl towns/duncan like performance (stats plus winning games against the best)...so its a little harder to come to an absolute conclusion imo

Perspective:  Fultz had to play against good teams like Arizona and UCLA.   Ball, conversely, got to play against crap teams like Washington ...

The good GMs don't really give that much credence to NCAA team performance.  NCAA team performance tends to correlate most with how many talented upperclassmen the coach can convince to stay around.  It has far less to do with how individually talented a given freshman player is.

History is littered with March Madness superstars who ended up doing nothing in the NBA.

I disagree on some of the things you are saying

Ideally if the prospect plays to their capabilities and the team wins/dominates... You got the undisputed top prospect

This is what happened with Lebron... He won 3-4 consecutive hs titles + stats... Teams knew he was for real

If James got the stats but no hs titles.. maybe he doesnt go 1 or cavs may think to trade the pick

And this is what is going on with Fultz... If it was absolute/he was the next great... There would be zero talks about trading him for Butler, pg13 but the conversation exist

No.  Basketball is a team game.   Even Lebron did not win titles until he got super talented help.  Neither did MJ.

(Also, Lebron was drafted out of high school so he never won a single NCAA game.  So I'm not sure why you are even talking about him.)

Markelle is great, but no one is claiming he is the next Larry Bird.   He declared early for Washington expecting to play with Marquis Chriss and Dejounte Murray.  Instead, those guys declared for the NBA and Markell was basically playing with the equivalent of a junior varsity team around him.

If you really think those team results are at all any reflection of his individual talent then you are just being willfully superficial about the situation.   Good GMs do not look at things so superficially.  You have to look at the player in detail as an individual and project how HE is going to be in the NBA over the next 4 - 10 years.   You aren't drafting his college teammates.

Then draft carmelo anthony

Stats/ind accomplishments cant be everything

Its understandable ..with markelle being in a tough situation

But ideally if you can accomplish ind stats/plus team accomplishments ... You are ahead of the game vs accomplishing only one or the other

Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 03:03:00 PM »

Online liam

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Flutz is the pick. He has that Herky jerky Paul Pierce game. Flutz is so far of anyone else in this draft in game development it's scary and he's the youngest guy at the top of the draft. Same beautiful change of pace and the PP spin move. He's going to be a bucket getter like Pierce and his outside shot is beautiful. He's shooting 40% from 3 with guys right up in his grill. He's driving on multiple defenders and getting to the rim or pulling up for that quick little jumper. Fultz has all those little moves like an NBA vet that keep defenders off balance. When I watch those Fultz highlights he moves like Paul Pierce did and It's the pick PP gave The Celtics so I can think of no one better to pick.
Flutz?  Haha, I'm dying laughing.  Don't know if it was intentional, but TP either way.

Thanks, but I'm dead serious. Fultz has all Those PP moves and he's 18. That's crazy to me.


Re: Tatum fans: Sell me drafting Tatum over Fultz
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 05:05:37 PM »

Offline footey

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I'm a fan of Tatum.  I could make an argument why he should be the second pick.  He's a tall wing who can score at all levels and score in isolation using experienced veteran moves that he's already using.  He reminds me of Pierce.   That said, without a doubt, Fultz is the pick.

What about Tatums defensive potential? Compared to Fultz?

I think they were pretty similar last year in that neither really seemed to give max effort on that side of the ball.  I think Fultz has much better potential for his position.  He'll be one of the most athletic guys at his position with great size.  Tatum will have good size at the 3, but only average athletically.

I wonder then why Vitale , CBS for example thinks Tatum should go #1.

Vitale has been around a long time...so what he says shouldnt be totally discounted

Vitals thought Rondo would be a terrible pro. He's an ACC -Duke fan club president.