What's Wrong With Isaiah?

[Jvalin]

do you think IT4 can impost his will against anybody/team?

He was double teammed vs the Wizards and did a good job passing the ball

Against the Cavs they don't have to double team him... he has problems against their versatile defense.... IT4 couldn't past Lebron 1 on 1

If he tries to drive ... guys like Lebron, Thompson are waiting for him

Teams like the Spurs and Cavs make him look ordinary

This. ^^^^

Isaiah is rendered useless by the Cavs. Worse than useless, a net negative.

That's exactly why we got to trade him, especially now that we have a replacement in Fultz.

IT for Myles Turner straight up.

The C's bring in a rebounder-rim protector who can stretch the floor and at the same time they free up enough cap space to go after Hayward.

Indy enters win-now mode in order to keep Paul George.

Fultz - Smart
Bradley - Brown
Hayward - Crowder
Turner - Yab
Horford - Zizic

Next year we draft a long term replacement for Horford with the Nets 2018 pick (Ayton/Bamba) and we build a team with an open contention window for the next decade or so.

[droopdog7]

do you think IT4 can impost his will against anybody/team?

He was double teammed vs the Wizards and did a good job passing the ball

Against the Cavs they don't have to double team him... he has problems against their versatile defense.... IT4 couldn't past Lebron 1 on 1

If he tries to drive ... guys like Lebron, Thompson are waiting for him

Teams like the Spurs and Cavs make him look ordinary

This. ^^^^

Isaiah is rendered useless by the Cavs. Worse than useless, a net negative.

That's exactly why we got to trade him, especially now that we have a replacement in Fultz.

IT for Myles Turner straight up.

The C's bring in a rebounder-rim protector who can stretch the floor and at the same time they free up enough cap space to go after Hayward.

Indy enters win-now mode in order to keep Paul George.

Fultz - Smart
Bradley - Brown
Hayward - Crowder
Turner - Yab
Horford - Zizic

Next year we draft a long term replacement for Horford with the Nets 2018 pick (Ayton/Bamba) and we build a team with an open contention window for the next decade or so.

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

[Ilikesports17]

do you think IT4 can impost his will against anybody/team?

He was double teammed vs the Wizards and did a good job passing the ball

Against the Cavs they don't have to double team him... he has problems against their versatile defense.... IT4 couldn't past Lebron 1 on 1

If he tries to drive ... guys like Lebron, Thompson are waiting for him

Teams like the Spurs and Cavs make him look ordinary

This. ^^^^

Isaiah is rendered useless by the Cavs. Worse than useless, a net negative.

That's exactly why we got to trade him, especially now that we have a replacement in Fultz.

IT for Myles Turner straight up.

The C's bring in a rebounder-rim protector who can stretch the floor and at the same time they free up enough cap space to go after Hayward.

Indy enters win-now mode in order to keep Paul George.

Fultz - Smart
Bradley - Brown
Hayward - Crowder
Turner - Yab
Horford - Zizic

Next year we draft a long term replacement for Horford with the Nets 2018 pick (Ayton/Bamba) and we build a team with an open contention window for the next decade or so.

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

I disagree that he is useless against the Cavs, but even if he was, he has shown the ability to carry a team offensively and has led 3 teams of varying talent levels to the playoffs.

Theres bound to be a few teams out there willing to give up something substantial for a guy who can carry them to the ECF.

[Dino Pitino]

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

Good question. Worth a new thread to figure out which teams if any would be interested enough in him to give us something decent-to-good in return? He's not completely useless. He's a regular season MVP candidate. Just useless in the playoffs.

[Dino Pitino]

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

Good question. Worth a new thread to figure out which teams if any would be interested enough in him to give us something decent-to-good in return? He's not completely useless. He's a regular season MVP candidate. Just useless in the playoffs.

Wow, I just perused all the teams using the ESPN trade machine, and, wow...there's almost no team (Dallas?) that would be interested in him. Besides us. Sigh.

[tarheelsxxiii]

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

Good question. Worth a new thread to figure out which teams if any would be interested enough in him to give us something decent-to-good in return? He's not completely useless. He's a regular season MVP candidate. Just useless in the playoffs.

Boston would not have made the playoffs without IT. 

In fantasy land, if they had, they would've been swept by Chicago without IT.

If Butler, Wade, and Rondo were all hurt and they somehow advanced, they would've been swept by Washington without IT.

He draws attention from defenses just by being on the floor. He has a high BBIQ and is the only player on the team that can create shots. He has done this more in the playoffs than in the regular season. He dropped 53 in a big playoff game... I don't believe a single player in the league has done that in these playoffs.

So, Boston is entirely reliant upon IT for offense.  Boston continues to overachieve, and despite a talent discrepancy throughout the playoffs, is now in the ECF.  But you believe IT is useless.  Do you see why that is fascinating to those that don't share your belief? 

[Dino Pitino]

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

Good question. Worth a new thread to figure out which teams if any would be interested enough in him to give us something decent-to-good in return? He's not completely useless. He's a regular season MVP candidate. Just useless in the playoffs.

Boston would not have made the playoffs without IT. 

Correct.

In fantasy land, if they had, they would've been swept by Chicago without IT.

I hate to be that guy, but...if Rondo isn't injured, they might have swept us anyway.

If Butler, Wade, and Rondo were all hurt and they somehow advanced, they would've been swept by Washington without IT.

Okay, he wasn't useless against Washington. Stipulated. He had three really good games.

He draws attention from team defenses that creates space and shots for every one else.  He has a very high BBIQ and creates for others - he has done than more in the playoffs than he did in the regular season. 

So, Boston is entirely reliant upon IT for offense.  Boston continues to overachieve, and despite a talent discrepancy throughout the playoffs, is now in the ECF.  But you believe IT is useless.  Do you see why that is fascinating to those that don't share your belief?

You are describing an Isaiah that doesn't exist against these Cavs in the playoffs. He's useless or worse against these Cavs right now. He was useless against the Bulls when Rondo was playing. He was useless or just about so against the Hawks last year. He was useless against the Cavs two years ago. He was useful against the Wizards, barely a net positive overall across the seven games, even with the 53 game.

[footey]

I think the loss of confidence recently is palpable, especially last night. He was missing bunnies. Sorry, regular season IT does not miss those.

He was missing bunnies because the Cavs were successfully hounding him. He's not going to get his confidence back unless they stop succeeding at that, not the other way around.

You are wrong. Everyone else knows it.

[Jvalin]

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

Good question. Worth a new thread to figure out which teams if any would be interested enough in him to give us something decent-to-good in return? He's not completely useless. He's a regular season MVP candidate. Just useless in the playoffs.

Wow, I just perused all the teams using the ESPN trade machine, and, wow...there's almost no team (Dallas?) that would be interested in him. Besides us. Sigh.

What about a trade with the Sixers for Saric and the Sacramento 2019 unprotected first?

[Dino Pitino]

I think the loss of confidence recently is palpable, especially last night. He was missing bunnies. Sorry, regular season IT does not miss those.

He was missing bunnies because the Cavs were successfully hounding him. He's not going to get his confidence back unless they stop succeeding at that, not the other way around.

You are wrong. Everyone else knows it.

They weren't hounding him? He wasn't hounded, successfully, on almost every possession, right from the start? Or are you saying that they only hounded him because he wasn't confident?

[Dino Pitino]

So if we think he's useless, what do we expect to get back in a trade?

Good question. Worth a new thread to figure out which teams if any would be interested enough in him to give us something decent-to-good in return? He's not completely useless. He's a regular season MVP candidate. Just useless in the playoffs.

Wow, I just perused all the teams using the ESPN trade machine, and, wow...there's almost no team (Dallas?) that would be interested in him. Besides us. Sigh.

What about a trade with the Sixers for Saric and the Sacramento 2019 unprotected first?

I'd do it, you'd do it, but why would Philly?

[Rosco917]

He's useless on defense, and at present easily contained on offense because we have no reliable scorer that can create his own shot. IT has no bailout player on the floor with him.

If he had say a Gordon Hayward, or a Paul George waiting for him to be doubled, Thomas would know where his bail out target is on the floor, and he would make them pay for doubling him.

[Monkhouse]

What's wrong with Isaiah?

Avery Bradley and Horford are his next best teammates.

[BitterJim]

But in the playoffs, he's shut-down-able

So are 484 of the 485 other players that played in the NBA this season.  The only person who has proved that they can't get shut down is Lebron, but even he hasn't succeeded carrying as large a share of his team's offense as IT has had to year in and year out.  IT isn't scoring as much as he did in the regular season because teams are focusing on shutting him down, and making the rest of the team beat them.  It's worked pretty [dang] well so far, and if we add another real scorer (I love the guy, but winning a championship with Avery Bradley as your 2nd best scorer isn't realistic) then teams wouldn't be keying in on him so hard (not that it seems to affect Isaiah, who's continued to shoot over 50% from 2 in the playoffs, which is unreal for a sub-6 foot player)

I don't think the issue is Isaiah, I think it's your expectations of what a star does.

[tarheelsxxiii]

What's wrong with Isaiah?

Avery Bradley and Horford are his next best teammates.

Agreed.  Good players in their own right, but advancing to the Finals/winning a chip at present means have a) The best player in the NBA, or b) The 2nd best player in the NBA, flanked by a former MVP and 3 very good players in their prime.  This thread is full of emotion reasoning due to 1 playoff loss against a team we are in no way competitive with.

But in the playoffs, he's shut-down-able

So are 484 of the 485 other players that played in the NBA this season.  The only person who has proved that they can't get shut down is Lebron, but even he hasn't succeeded carrying as large a share of his team's offense as IT has had to year in and year out.  IT isn't scoring as much as he did in the regular season because teams are focusing on shutting him down, and making the rest of the team beat them.  It's worked pretty [dang] well so far, and if we add another real scorer (I love the guy, but winning a championship with Avery Bradley as your 2nd best scorer isn't realistic) then teams wouldn't be keying in on him so hard (not that it seems to affect Isaiah, who's continued to shoot over 50% from 2 in the playoffs, which is unreal for a sub-6 foot player)

I don't think the issue is Isaiah, I think it's your expectations of what a star does.

Agreed.