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Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #60 on: May 11, 2017, 11:35:08 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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The silence from so many Republicans shows their incredible hypocrisy. Their enabling of the President undercuts and betrays the ideals of this country.

For years the right wing tried to portray Obama as some sort of anti-American enemy sympathizer, and yet they could never pin him in any scandal of significance.

And now we have a President who might actually have serious ties with anti-American interests, and has suffered a series of scandals many magnitudes greater than his predecessor.

It is mind-bogglingly ironic how things have worked out.

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #61 on: May 11, 2017, 11:51:58 PM »

Online Roy H.

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I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.


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Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2017, 08:50:07 AM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2017, 11:52:47 AM »

Offline blink

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After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.

Trumps twitter storm today made me throw up in my mouth a bit.  But I have pretty much felt that way since the election, so nothing new.
 
I thought it was interesting that the assistant FBI director basically contradicted Trump on the fact that he says that Commey had wide support in the FBI.  Hopefully none of the evidence gathered so far in the investigation doesn't go 'missing' once the new FBI director is selected.  At this point I don't think the American public can trust trump or sessions.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 12:05:04 PM by blink »

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2017, 11:54:10 AM »

Offline blink

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I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.

Your last paragraph seems dead on.

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #65 on: May 12, 2017, 12:10:01 PM »

Offline slamtheking

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After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.

Trumps twitter storm today made me throw up in my mouth a bit.  But I have pretty much felt that way since the election, so nothing new.
 
I thought it was interesting that the assistant FBI director basically contradicted Trump on the fact that he says that Commey had wide support in the FBI.  Hopefully none of the evidence gathered so far in the investigation doesn't go 'missing' once the new FBI director is selected.  At this point I don't think the American public can could ever trust trump or sessions.
fixed that for you

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #66 on: May 12, 2017, 12:17:38 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.

I agree it is concerning that law enforcement appears to be becoming more political. Every law enforcement controversy, small or large, seems to have political divides. That is unfortunate.

But after living through the Ken Starr investigation of Clinton, the Benghazi witch hunt against Hillary, and then the ill-timed Comey "revelation" 10 days before the election - a revelation somehow predicted by a gleeful Rudy Giuliani on national TV just a couple days earlier - it's hard to think of these investigations as anything but political.

I don't think liberals hate Comey so much as they hate the political machine that undoubtedly pressured him into taking the unprecedented actions that he did.

Were there any equivalent witch hunts against the Bush administration? The 9/11 commission wasn't particularly political, despite 9/11 being a security failure that was 1000x times worse than Benghazi. And most Presidents would have been sunk by the WMD/CIA/Scooter Libby scandal, but that one received relatively limited press.

And now we have a President accused of colluding with an enemy nation because of business ties, and he is blatantly tampering with the investigation. And Republicans have been largely silent about it.

As a liberal I don't want witch hunts or kangaroo courts - such low political acts are bad for our country, and in part instigate the partisan anger you describe.

But I do want to see Trump properly investigated. Maybe Trump is innocent, but he certainly isn't acting like it.

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #67 on: May 12, 2017, 12:20:48 PM »

Offline kraidstar

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After stories came out from Comey associates that his post-election dinner with Trump involved Trump repeatedly asking for a promise of "loyalty", and Trump being stupid enough to literally link firing Comey with wanting the Russia investigation to end, the President of the United States is now threatening the former FBI chief on Twitter:

Quote
Donald J. Trump‏Verified account @realDonaldTrump

James Comey better hope that there are no "tapes" of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!

This is all fine and normal and the real story is that Hillary Clinton sure is a bad person.

If the Republicans were smart they would just impeach Trump now and replace him with Mike "Mr. Insurance" Pence.

We're only a few months into this Presidency... This is only going to get worse.

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2017, 01:05:53 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word
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Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2017, 01:19:31 PM »

Offline MBunge

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It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2017, 01:40:11 PM »

Offline GratefulCs

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It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike
i hear ya

but what i responded to earlier was just about that bolded line

comey has stated that there IS an investigation

i'm not saying there's a conclusion that people on the trump campaign are guilty of anything
I trust Danny Ainge

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #71 on: May 12, 2017, 01:56:36 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike
I think this could very well be a situation where the cover up is perceived as worse than the crime. Trump probably wins even without Russian interference, and I doubt he had a hand in the Russian interference. However, him firing Comey, not releasing his tax returns and having multiple people associated with his campaign linked to Russia makes him look guilty.

He has handled the Russian situation as poorly as possible and I think he's going to do something/has already done something illegal trying to sweep the Russian thing under the rug.

I have a lot more issue with how Trump and his family seem to be running the presidency as a for profit business to enrich himself than any of the Russian stuff.

Independent of what you think of the Russian thing, you have to admit that firing Comey when they did looks really bad right?
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Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #72 on: May 12, 2017, 02:10:55 PM »

Offline arctic 3.0

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It's amazing to me to see so many here believing the MSM talking points on Russia, do some digging on Democrats admitting there IS NO EVIDENCE tying Trump to Russia, start with Clapper and Comey himself telling Trump 3 times that there was no investigation into the Trump connection being done by the FBI, 9 months they've been pushing this narrative and there is NOTHING there,  it's a talking point to rally the troops and fund raise, that's about it , Comey has disgraced the FBI by NOT bringing charges against Hillary, there should only be a 1 tiered Justice system in this Country not 2 for those like Hillary who think they are above the law(Repub's too), if they put someone in place that will do his job to the letter of the Law, Hillary WILL go to jail, where she belongs. Why don't the MSM do a little digging on Hillary on about the 20% of all our Plutonium she sold off to the Russians, NOW there's a real story the Dem's and the MSM won't touch.    p.s. I'm an Independent voter, just in case you were wondering.
you are literally just taking trump at his word

It seems more like he's just not buying into the butthurt hysteria of a lot of people who were so wrong about the election that they are undergoing an existential crisis.

1.  There's been little to no evidence presented to support the allegations about Russia and the 2016 election.

2.  Even if Russia actually did the stuff they're being accused of, THEY DID NOT NEED TO COLLUDE/COOPERATE/COORDINATE WITH TRUMP OR HIS CAMPAIGN TO DO ANY OF IT.

3.  Why would the Russians have even wanted to collude with Trump, WHO EVERYONE IN THE WORLD WAS 10000000% SURE WAS GOING TO LOSE THE ELECTION?  If you're going to tell me the Russians knew Trump was going to win, I'm going to tell  you we need to make friends with them immediately because the Russians are the smartest people in the world.

Has Trump lied about having past business dealings with Russia?  Could those supposed dealings have left him more favorably disposed toward Russia than an American President should be?  Those are not at all unreasonable concerns.

This childish nonsense about Trump being some sort of Manchurian Candidate installed by Russian interference in the 2016 election is turning into something even worse than birtherism, because at least that only winked at by most mainstream Republicans as opposed to what we're seeing from Democrats and the media now.

Mike

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Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #73 on: May 12, 2017, 02:26:35 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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White House is refusing to confirm or deny that there are secret recording devices in the White House or that Comey specifically was recorded.   :o

I veer more toward dismay than schadenfreude on this stuff but it really is remarkable watching Trump dig himself a bigger and bigger hole with his own stupid mouth, and go out of his way to bring in yet another Watergate parallel in the process.

Re: James Comey fired
« Reply #74 on: May 12, 2017, 02:37:42 PM »

Offline BudweiserCeltic

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I hate to convict somebody based on nothing but conjecture, but seriously, is there any other answer than that:

A) Trump's administration did something shady regarding Russia; and/or

B) Trump is too stupid to know how bad this looks; and/or

C) Trump is too narcissistic to care how bad this looks?

While I get a small chuckle out of all the Dems now defending Comey (a man most thought was corrupt or incompetent), the principle here isn't all that funny. We have a highly political DOJ and court system already. Using the FBI for nakedly political purposes is bad for everyone.
I don't think Dems (at least not here) are defending Comey but rather pointing out that firing him now is highly questionable and reeks of covering up or obstructing the Russian-link investigation.
Yes.

And the real "chuckle" is that Repubs (and Trump himself) liked Comey up until Comey started investigating Trump.

Trump loved him up until the Flynn story broke, then he abruptly changed his tune, trying to scapegoat him for leaks, for Hillary, for supposed internal FBI dysfunction, and everything else under the sun that might possibly distract the media and public from the fact that something ugly is going on here, something that might eventually bring the administration down.

http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/here-s-timeline-trump-s-statements-comey-n757416

Republicans in general criticized Comey when he didn't recommend charges for Hillary, then applauded him when he announced the investigation was re-opened.  They were disappointed again when the investigation was quickly closed. I don't think Republicans ever "liked" him again after that, but he seemed off the radar until he wouldn't publicly take Trump's side.

Democrats, in general, seemed to have equally opposite opinions, applauding him when he cleared Hillary, and then accusing him of bias when he responded to Congress about the newly reopened investigation.

It's almost like most partisans base their like or dislike of America's top LEO on whether or not he's furthering their political objectives.

I can't really speak to Comey's competence relative to other FBI directors, but he seemed to care about the FBI and seemed to be trying to do his job. That he angered both parties probably speaks to him doing something right. I fear FBI Director will just become another job akin to the Attorney General, a job used almost solely to push partisan agendas.

Or handled a lot of issues carelessly.